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  #301  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:19 AM
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I suppose it wouldn't be too much to ask if she visits once a summer with her children once a year.
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  #302  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:57 AM
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The court's cryptic statement about Princess Madeleine's spring
When will we see Princess Madeleine on Swedish soil again? Many people wonder. This is how the court answers.
Most common question for us at Svensk Damtidning? Yes, it is about Florida Princess Madeleine: When will we see her again in Sweden?
And the answer is: It can be delayed - and it depends in part on the family's move.
- At the moment Princess Madeleine has no assignments scheduled in the official calendar, says Margareta Thorgren:
- The family is establishing themselves in their new home in Florida and it is taking so much time. So we'll see in the spring. The King's birthday and the National Day celebration on June 6 are the occasions when the royal family usually gather.
Queen Silvia's child rights organization the World Childhood Foundation, where Princess Madeleine sits on the Board, can't yet announce if Princess Madeleine will be in place at Childhood Day, which traditionally takes place at Gröna Lund in Stockholm in May.
- It will be either the Queen or Princess Madeleine who will be present, says Åsa Andreasson Åkerström, Communications Manager.
- Last year it was only the queen, the year before it was just the princess. So who's coming this time depends a little on their commitments elsewhere.
Hovets kryptiska besked om prinsessan Madeleines vår _ Svensk Dam
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  #303  
Old 02-08-2020, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I suppose it wouldn't be too much to ask if she visits once a summer with her children once a year.
I don't think the duchy is asking for yearly visits, but a visit once every five years by adult members of the royal family does not strike me as too much to ask in return for the traditional royal honors of duchess and duke. It was puzzling when no representative of the Royal Family attended the inauguration of the park that the duchy of Ăngermanland generously gifted as Prince Nicolas's christening present; the duchy's investment surely deserves a one-off attendance, and one assumes the duchy would have cooperated in scheduling it on a convenient date.
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  #304  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I don't think the duchy is asking for yearly visits, but a visit once every five years by adult members of the royal family does not strike me as too much to ask in return for the traditional royal honors of duchess and duke. It was puzzling when no representative of the Royal Family attended the inauguration of the park that the duchy of Ăngermanland generously gifted as Prince Nicolas's christening present; the duchy's investment surely deserves a one-off attendance, and one assumes the duchy would have cooperated in scheduling it on a convenient date.
I thought that was strange too - Estelle and even Leonore have attended events related to their duchies. I hope that Madeleine will still make them aware of their titles and positions in Sweden, and that they won't derail from their royal connections completely.
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  #305  
Old 02-08-2020, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I thought that was strange too - Estelle and even Leonore have attended events related to their duchies. I hope that Madeleine will still make them aware of their titles and positions in Sweden, and that they won't derail from their royal connections completely.
As did prince Oscar and prince Alexander who are younger than prince Nicholas. It will be interesting to see whether prince Gabriel will still visit his duchy now he no longer is a royal highness but still Duke of Dalarna... Because if so, Nicholas and Adrienne should do the same for their duchies.
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  #306  
Old 02-08-2020, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I don't think the duchy is asking for yearly visits, but a visit once every five years by adult members of the royal family does not strike me as too much to ask in return for the traditional royal honors of duchess and duke. It was puzzling when no representative of the Royal Family attended the inauguration of the park that the duchy of Ăngermanland generously gifted as Prince Nicolas's christening present; the duchy's investment surely deserves a one-off attendance, and one assumes the duchy would have cooperated in scheduling it on a convenient date.



I can't see Madeleine's children having any lasting relationship with their respective duchies. They will grow up in the US and most likely won't even speak more than passable Swedish. Sweden is increasingly going to be a foreign and distant land to them.



They were given duchies when they were born because, as we now know, Princess Madeleine insisted with her parents that her children should be Princes of Sweden, which automatically goes by tradition with a duchy. In hindsight, that was a mistake knowing that it was unrealistic that they would be raised in Sweden and would ever become full-time royals.
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  #307  
Old 02-08-2020, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I can't see Madeleine's children having any lasting relationship with their respective duchies. They will grow up in the US and most likely won't even speak more than passable Swedish. Sweden is increasingly going to be a foreign and distant land to them.



They were given duchies when they were born because, as we now know, Princess Madeleine insisted with her parents that her children should be Princes of Sweden, which automatically goes by tradition with a duchy. In hindsight, that was a mistake knowing that it was unrealistic that they would be raised in Sweden and would ever become full-time royals.
How do “we now know” that Madeleine insisted her children be Princess/Prince of Sweden? I was under the impression it was the King himself who insisted.
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  #308  
Old 02-08-2020, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
How do “we now know” that Madeleine insisted her children be Peincess/Prince of Sweden? I was under the impression it was the King himself who insisted.

I was referring to the article posted by LadyFinn on the forum on titles of the Swedish RF where Court officials confirm that Madeleine insisted on a title for Leonore when she was born and is reported to have been very anxious about it. Please check that forum for further details.
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  #309  
Old 02-08-2020, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
How do “we now know” that Madeleine insisted her children be Peincess/Prince of Sweden? I was under the impression it was the King himself who insisted.
I too was under the impression that it was the King who insisted that Princess Madeleine's children be HRH Prince/ss of Sweden. This was since at the time of Leonore's birth, Princess Estelle was the sole grandchild of the King.
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  #310  
Old 02-08-2020, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I too was under the impression that it was the King who insisted that Princess Madeleine's children be HRH Prince/ss of Sweden. This was since at the time of Leonore's birth, Princess Estelle was the sole grandchild of the King.



Here is the relevant quote in the article from the other forum


Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFinn
Svensk Damtidning's Helena Wiklund interviewed Victoria in Iceland about the change in the Royal House.

What does the Crown Princess think about the great change in the royal house? Does the Crown Princess feel at ease for the future?
– Yes, I do. But I think we should find another opportunity to talk about this. Take another grasp of it simply.
Meanwhile, many people wonder how the Crown Princess thinks about this.
- Yes it is so.
And several who feel that the press and responsibility that has been put on the Crown princess is getting very large?
Victoria ponders a few seconds before she responds.
- But it belongs well to the whole. It is not so strange really.
So the Crown Princess feels confident for the future?
- Well, I do. And I am confident also with what I have around me.
Exklusivt! Victorias första ord – svarar efter kungens beslut _ Svensk Dam

The King has now highlighted that Crown Princess Victoria and her children have a special position.
Madeleine welcomes the decision - outwards.
But previously, she has wanted her children to belong to the royal house as well, says Expressen.

The king is the one who has taken the initiative in this matter, but all three children have been keen to express their views. The court admits that it is a process that has taken a long time.
- This is a discussion that has been around for a long time in the family, and the whole royal family has been involved. Everyone is involved, says Margareta Thorgren.
When asked about how close the family members have been, Margareta Thorgren replies that it is a dialogue that has been held within the family.
- It is a process that has been going on for a long time and where everyone in the family agrees.
But earlier, when Princess Madeleine's daughter Leonore was born in 2014, Madeleine expressed a desire for her children to belong to the royal house. According to information to Expressen, the king agreed with his daughter, despite the fact that there were divided sentences in the matter within the court.
However, Karin Lennmor, royal expert and chronicler at Expressen, does not perceive Madeleine's wish at that time that she wanted at all costs for her daughter to become part of the royal house.
- Madeleine really wanted her firstborn daughter to get a princess title, and with that she got it she became part of the royal house. When Madeleine and Chris O'Neill got married, Chris did not want to receive the prince's title. He wanted to be able to work as usual. That's why I think Madeleine was worried when Leonore was born. She didn't really know what her baby would be like. Then she pressed her parents and said: I want my daughter to become a princess, Karin Lennmor says.

The King's decision on Monday could also have financial consequences for his younger children. The focus on Victoria is expected to mean that Princess Madeleine and Prince couple Carl Philip and Sofia will receive fewer official assignments in the future.
Prinsessan Madeleine om relationen till Victoria

The game behind the king's decision on the grandchildren
Princess Madeleine and Prince Carl Philip's children will no longer belong to the royal house.
King Carl Gustaf's decision came as a surprise, but the signals that a change was underway have been around for a long time.
The decision will also affect Princess Madeleine and Prince Carl Philip. As they receive fewer official assignments, their apanage will also decrease.
- When the royal children were born, the royal family was not so big. Now we have a situation with ten people in the line to throne, when the king has reached this great restriction, The Marshal of the Realm Fredrik Wersäll previously told Expressen.
According to him, this is a decision that has been discussed within the royal family for several years.
- The decision by the king explicitly states that this means greater freedom for the children to shape their own future. They will continue to be part of the succession. There is also an obligation to work to maintain the trust of the monarchy.
Both Princess Madeleine and Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia have commented that they are positive about the change.
"Chris and I think it is good that our children now have a greater opportunity to shape their own lives as individuals in the future", Madeleine writes on Instagram.
- I absolutely think she welcomes this decision. After all, she has talked about it and it has also become clear that she has been bothered by all the attention and demands that she should return to Sweden and represent in different contexts. Although she will still be a royal highness and princess, both she and Carl Philip will be much calmer now, says chronicler Karin Lennmor.
Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia also commented on the decision on their joint Instagram account:
“We see this as a positive as Alexander and Gabriel will have freer choices in life. They will retain their prince titles and their duchies, Södermanland and Dalarna, which we value and are proud of. Our family has strong connections to both landscapes and we maintain our commitment there ”.
- I think Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine are happy about this decision, not have to be so careful and to have this press on them anymore, says Lennmor.
The clues have been there for a long time
Although the king's decision came as a surprise to many, there have been signals that a change has been going on for a long time.
- There are two very clear signs, says Karin Lennmor.
In September, Princess Madeleine, who is up to date with her children's book debut "Stella and the secret", was present at the Book Fair in Gothenburg and then bypassed the question of where the children would go to school.
- It was always an indication that something was going on. This with school, I think is something that worried Madeleine. The old rule has been that when you belong to the royal house, the children should have a Swedish schooling with Swedish as their mother tongue and it is not possible to arrange in Florida what I know. Now it will be completely different. She is completely free to choose where she wants to put her children in school. This message, I think, meant that a large stone fell from her shoulders, Karin Lennmor says.
Karin Lennmor also remembers what it was like when Princess Madeleine first met Chris and that he made a clear marker when he declined a prince title.
- He wanted to be free and not have that burden around his neck. Madeleine, on the other hand, was very anxious that Leonore, her first child, should receive a princess title. So already then she highlighted that even though my husband doesn't want to be a prince, we don't want to be excluded from the royal family, and they are not either, says Karin Lennmor.
A clear signal - the summer picture from Solliden
All the years, the royal family has been photographed in front of Solliden's castle on Öland. Last year, only one image was published of the royal couple, the crown princess couple and Princess Estelle and Prince Oscar.
- It can definitely be seen as a signal. I reacted myself when I saw the picture. On the other hand, we must not forget that the whole royal family has become so good themselves on social media by posting pictures, says Karin Lennmor.
Among other things, she takes up the photo that Princess Madeleine posted on herself and her family from Solliden. Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia also posted a summer picture of themselves and the sons.
- But there is still something in this, that one may have paved the way for this decision in that picture.
That there was no official 40-year celebration for Carl-Philip in May this year, however, is nothing Karin Lennmor sees as a clue to the king's decision.
- Only the heirs to the throne, in this case Crown Princess Victoria, have official birthday celebrations, so it's not strange at all.
Recently, the court's website has also seen an increasing focus on the royal couple and the crown princess couple.
- It is something I have been thinking about, but there I have concluded that the royal family has become so much more involved with the media. The court has also received a new good digital editor. However, both Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine have been good at this by posting their own pictures.
Karin Lennmor believes that when Prince Carl Philip and Princess Madeleine can count on a smaller apanage, it will not be a problem, as both have their own careers. Princess Madeleine has started her career as a children's book writer and Prince Carl Philip has his design company.
- So they will not be poor and their children will do well in the future as well. I am convinced of that, she says.
Expressen has sought Margareta Thorgren for a comment.
Spelet bakom kungens beslut om barnbarnen

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  #311  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Here is the relevant quote in the article from the other forum
That’s not the court confirming, but Expressen “reporting.” Expression’s journalistic quality is on par with the Daily Mail.
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  #312  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I too was under the impression that it was the King who insisted that Princess Madeleine's children be HRH Prince/ss of Sweden. This was since at the time of Leonore's birth, Princess Estelle was the sole grandchild of the King.

The only information which was confirmed by a court official about how the decision was arrived at was:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The solicitor to the King clarified in 2013 that the child of an HRH inherits the HRH:
SDT1338_
Eftersom prinsessan fortfarande är Hennes Kungliga Höghet föds barnet ocksa som en kunglig höghet och blir nummer fem i tronföljdsordningen, berättar hovauditör Axel Calissendorff som hänvisar till successionsordningens första paragraf.

(Given that the princess continues to be Her Royal Highness, the child too will be born as a Royal Highness and be number five in the order of succession to the throne, solicitor to the king Axel Calissendorff states in reference to the first paragraph of the Act of Succession.)

So it does not seem that anyone had to "insist". From 1772 until 2019, the convention that all members of the royal family who were in the line of succession were HRHs, Princes or Princesses of Sweden, and Dukes or Duchesses had always applied, even to grandchildren who were not in the direct line (Carl and Lennart being the most recent examples until Leonore). Even the present Constitution designates persons in the line of succession as "Princes and Princesses of the Royal House".

One might ask why Karin Lennmor or her unnamed source do not claim that Carl Philip insisted on his children being princes. His statement reacting to the changes last October emphasized that his children remained princes and dukes; his sister's statement did not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I was referring to the article posted by LadyFinn on the forum on titles of the Swedish RF where Court officials confirm that Madeleine insisted on a title for Leonore when she was born and is reported to have been very anxious about it. Please check that forum for further details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Here is the relevant quote in the article from the other forum
[...]
The sole named source for the information seems to be Karin Lennmor; while she reports on the royal family, she is not a court employee.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katiebird View Post
That’s not the court confirming, but Expressen “reporting.” Expression’s journalistic quality is on par with the Daily Mail.
Generally speaking I do not find the royal journalism in The Daily Mail to be on par with the higher quality of Expressen's, but Karin Lennmor's reporting (as far as I am familiar with it) is unconvincing in respect to her credibility.
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  #313  
Old 02-09-2020, 04:30 AM
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Neither the King nor Madeleine had to insist on Madeleine's children being HRHs that was the default until the recent change. Personally I never bought into the claim that Madeleine did not want Leonor to have a title and had to be convinced by her father to not take measures to have Leonor not be an HRH, Princess of Sweden which again was the default.
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  #314  
Old 02-09-2020, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Neither the King nor Madeleine had to insist on Madeleine's children being HRHs that was the default until the recent change. Personally I never bought into the claim that Madeleine did not want Leonor to have a title and had to be convinced by her father to not take measures to have Leonor not be an HRH, Princess of Sweden which again was the default.

That is actually unclear. Prior to 1979, the default was that all male line descendants of Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte were princes or princesses of Sweden, but those who married morganatically (and their respective descendants) lost their titles.



After 1980, at first it looked like the new default would be that all descendants of Carl XVI Gustaf (either in male or female line) would be princes or princesses of Sweden, which of course would be unmanageable in the long run. Following the August 2019 announcement, the rule now seems to be simply that princes and princesses of Sweden are whoever the King decides they are, which I also find problematic.



In any case, it looks like the prospect of political pressure to limit the growing size of the Royal House is what prompted the King to act preemptively in August. If the Expressen article is true, preemptive action was already considered when Leonore was born, but Madeleine pledged with her parents to give her daughter a princely title.
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  #315  
Old 02-09-2020, 08:15 AM
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I think you are in agreement with Queen Claude - the default was to be HRH and Prince or Princess of Sweden until the recent change.

Reply moved to here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2292052
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  #316  
Old 02-09-2020, 08:19 AM
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In general everything written by Karin Lenmor should be taken with a massive pinch of salt. She writes opinion pieces for Expressen where facts, unnamed sources and her own thoughts intermingle to form one big mess. Expressen in general is a serious newspaper that unfortunately mixes serious journalism with gossip about celebrities and royals so again take their royal articles with a pinch of salt. Sometimes they're right and sometimes they're very wrong. In this case I'll bet my socks on them having made things up from thin air.
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  #317  
Old 03-07-2020, 05:03 AM
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Svensk Damtidning's article about Madeleine, they have interviewed psychologist Eva Rusz.
That's why she's so restless
Madeleine's constant pursuit of happiness
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  #318  
Old 03-07-2020, 07:19 AM
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Has this “psychologist” ever even met Madeleine? Seems like armchair psychology.
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  #319  
Old 03-07-2020, 07:58 AM
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Has this “psychologist” ever even met Madeleine? Seems like armchair psychology.
Eva Rusz has been the tabloids go to psychiatrist for the last 15-20 years. She's probably never met Madeleine and has pulled this article out of her ass.
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  #320  
Old 03-07-2020, 02:34 PM
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...and isn't the pursuit of happiness and personal growth something we all want to achieve? And is it ethical for "doctors" to "diagnose" people they haven't met and examined?
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