Princess Madeleine and Family Moving to London: May 2015

[Duc_et_Pair]

It has nothing to do with being a member of the Royal House or not. The average man in the street will not be able to tell the difference between Princess Birgitta (who made an equal marriage and remains a HRH) and Princess Désirée who married a Friherre (Baron) and is no HRH.

If Princess Madeleine wants, she can have a secluded life. If Agnetha Fältskog and Annifrid Prinzessin Reuss, Gräfin zu Plauen nee Lyngstad, the most über-famous Swedes of the world, are able to disappear almost completely off the radar, then a Princess Madeleine who is largely "Big" in Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries can do as well. Come on, have we any idea how immense and empty Sweden actually is, with thick green forests, mountain slopes, fjords and many, many secluded islands... If there are countries in Europe where you are able to withdraw from regular society, then it are Norway, Sweden and Finland...

 

[hernameispekka]

It has nothing to do with being a member of the Royal House or not. The average man in the street will not be able to tell the difference between Princess Birgitta (who made an equal marriage and remains a HRH) and Princess Désirée who married a Friherre (Baron) and is no HRH.

If Princess Madeleine wants, she can have a secluded life. If Agnetha Fältskog and Annifrid Prinzessin Reuss, Gräfin zu Plauen nee Lyngstad, the most über-famous Swedes of the world, are able to disappear almost completely off the radar, then a Princess Madeleine who is largely "Big" in Sweden and the other Scandinavian countries can do as well. Come on, have we any idea how immense and empty Sweden actually is, with thick green forests, mountain slopes, fjords and many, many secluded islands... If there are countries in Europe where you are able to withdraw from regular society, then it are Norway, Sweden and Finland...

Hahah, well yes. If you want to have miles to the closes corner store and do nothing all day Madeleine hardly seems like a country girl to me. She seems very fond of her cafe's and clubs. That's not a bad thing, but I think even Göteborg or Malmö would be to small for her.

 

[MissP]

I hope the paps leave M,C & family alone in London. It's a wonderful city (yes, I'm biased!) and most people here wouldn't give two hoots about who they are. They ARE areas they could live in with minimal attention, it's just a case of if they've thought of them I suppose.

 

[Isabella]

As far as the King is concerned, I assume that, because he is viewed as "a joke" by some people in Sweden, they prefer not to say anything to avoid having to say something negative to a stranger who is not from Sweden like myself.

On the language point, I happen to know several people who have lived for 40 years or so in a foreign country and still can't speak the local language without an accent or without making mistakes. It's actually more common than you might think. What surprises me is that Silvia, prior to being queen, was, if I'm not mistaken, an interpreter. I assumed then she had a talent for, or at least an interest in learning other languages.

Now, going back to the topic of the forum, I don't really think we can compare Madeleine to the King's sisters as the latter are not members of the Royal House (except for Princess Birgitta ?), whereas Madeleine is. I also happen to think that leaving Sweden again to move to London won't help Madeleine boost her popularity domestically. On the contrary, it will probaby draw more negative feelings about her and Chris.

I must say, I didn't realize that Silvia's Swedish was lacking, and that really surprises me. Certainly some people can live in a country for decades and still not speak a language perfectly but, as you mentioned, Silvia had worked as an interpreter. According to Wikipedia, Swedish is her 6th language, so I would expect her to have an above-average facility with languages. I would also think that being queen would give her even more incentive to focus on making sure she speaks the language correctly.

As for Madeleine, I must admit I feel a bit bad for her. I think, in a way, she's caught between loyalty to the family she was born into, but also loyalty to her husband and children. And it seems she's been judged very harshly for that (I mean, I know some criticism is bound to happen, but I'm surprised by the strength of some of it). I think - or at least I hope - that London might be a good balance for her, at least for now. As has been mentioned, it's a good place for Chris to work, and it's much closer to home for Madeleine. It definitely seems like Madeleine and Chris are still trying to figure things out, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing, but rather a relatively normal thing. For many couples, the first year or so of being married requires some adjustments, it's just that, for Madeleine and Chris, these adjustments are unusually magnified.

 

[Mbruno]

I hope the paps leave M,C & family alone in London. It's a wonderful city (yes, I'm biased!) and most people here wouldn't give two hoots about who they are. They ARE areas they could live in with minimal attention, it's just a case of if they've thought of them I suppose.

Didn't Madeleine live (briefly) in London when she was 19 or so ? Nobody seems to have noticed her there back then. She also said once in an interview that she had never met the PoW's sons, which I find surprising considering the rumors that the BRF considered her as a potential match for Prince William.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is no surprise that Queen Silvia has an accent and maybe makes language errors. Queen Máxima (an Argentinean in the Netherlands), Crown Princess Mary (an Australian in Denmark), Queen Paola (an Italian in Belgium) are all in the same league. All of them are amazingly fluent in their new adopted language but yes, any native Swede, Dutchman, Dane or Belgian will be able to hear an accent, to hear some errors, etc. It is the same with me. I am fluent in French but here in the Bourbonnais any native will immediately hear I am not a born Frenchman.

 

[Isabella]

It is no surprise that Queen Silvia has an accent and maybe makes language errors. Queen Máxima (an Argentinean in the Netherlands), Crown Princess Mary (an Australian in Denmark), Queen Paola (an Italian in Belgium) are all in the same league. All of them are amazingly fluent in their new adopted language but yes, any native Swede, Dutchman, Dane or Belgian will be able to hear an accent, to hear some errors, etc. It is the same with me. I am fluent in French but here in the Bourbonnais any native will immediately hear I am not a born Frenchman.

Well, I would expect that Silvia would certainly always have an accent (if someone learns a new language as an adult, it's almost inevitable that they'll always have an accent), but the comments here make it sound as if her Swedish is really noticeably bad. To me, that would indicate that it goes beyond the typical occasional grammatical mistake we all expect from someone who's a non-native speaker of a language. However, I speak no Swedish whatsoever, so I'm just going by other people's reactions.

 

[hernameispekka]

Well, I would expect that Silvia would certainly always have an accent (if someone learns a new language as an adult, it's almost inevitable that they'll always have an accent), but the comments here make it sound as if her Swedish is really noticeably bad. To me, that would indicate that it goes beyond the typical occasional grammatical mistake we all expect from someone who's a non-native speaker of a language. However, I speak no Swedish whatsoever, so I'm just going by other people's reactions.

The accent (and grammatic faults) are very very clear. Not that I have a problem with it but in combination with the Kings image of being "stupid" it doesn't help And it puzzles me that she worked as an interpertor.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I love her voice, and her spoken Swedish has always sounded very beautiful to me, the same way that I love English spoken by someone foreign. (I am thinking of the wonderful lilt certain people give to English coming from certain other mother tongues). Queen Silvia has a wonderfully modulated voice. Very lovely. Easy on the ears.

P.S. I also know for a fact that Queen Silvia was immensely popular in Sweden during the 1980's (and I assume as a young bride and mother in the 1970's). No matter what someone might say now, she was very special in Sweden back then and for a long time. She is special. I just adore her.

 

[JR76]

The Queen speaks Swedish with a very heavy accent but her grammar is ok. Swedes in general are very picky when it comes to foreign accents but I think the problem is that Silvia speaks a bit hesitantly which gives the impression of that she has to think before she speaks. But I've heard her do the same when speaking both English and German.


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[hernameispekka]

The Queen speaks Swedish with a very heavy accent but her grammar is ok. Swedes in general are very picky when it comes to foreign accents but I think the problem is that Silvia speaks a bit hesitantly which gives the impression of that she has to think before she speaks. But I've heard her do the same when speaking both English and German.


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Hmm, that might be it. Because I generally don't have trouble with accents You must have figured out what makes it more noticable in her.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I know we are on a thread-nap (maybe all this can be moved to the correct thread?), but I just want to say (and show) that I just have to watch this video to have goose-bumps go up my spine. She was exquisite, with such a beautiful voice and manner. And he was so proud and handsome (in his way). Clearly a love-match.

Royal Wedding Queen Silvia and King Carl Gustav of Sweden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pogenTOM--k
TEXT: "Uploaded on Dec 4, 2011: Royal Wedding of King Carl Gustav and Queen silvia 19 of june 1976"

Also, here is Queen Silvia speaking in English, with a 'heavy accent' but so precise and well-spoken. Here you can hear the cadence of her natural speech. Careful and thoughtful. Delicacy is present, nothing 'heavy' or 'offensive'.

Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden - Part 02.avi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGRA_rjNSoY
TEXT: "Uploaded on May 6, 2010"

 

[Cris M]

I can say Queen Silvia speaks Portuguese very well, but she has a small accent, which is understandable, as she has spent the majority of her life living outside of Brazil.

 

[Lady Nimue]

As for Madeleine, I must admit I feel a bit bad for her. I think, in a way, she's caught between loyalty to the family she was born into, but also loyalty to her husband and children. And it seems she's been judged very harshly for that (I mean, I know some criticism is bound to happen, but I'm surprised by the strength of some of it).

I am well aware that Madeleine was 'strong' growing up and had a 'reputation' but I am all on her side these days. She had a very hard moment there with Jonas. We will never know whether, if she had been anything else other than royal, would she have given him up for the dalliance? I have a suspicion not, but we'll never know for certain. Even when she 'ran away', had she not been royal and 'protected' from him, might he not have pursued her? We'll never know.

Her (good) luck was that she met another man as equally passionate (one assumes) to take his place. I fault her nothing. She took the chance when it came. She has forged her life. Good for her. Marrying, having a child and then a second so quickly, moving and then moving again, and then again, she has enough on her plate. I'll say naught against her.

I think - or at least I hope - that London might be a good balance for her, at least for now. As has been mentioned, it's a good place for Chris to work, and it's much closer to home for Madeleine. It definitely seems like Madeleine and Chris are still trying to figure things out, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing, but rather a relatively normal thing. For many couples, the first year or so of being married requires some adjustments, it's just that, for Madeleine and Chris, these adjustments are unusually magnified.

I agree 100%. It's normal that Madeleine wanted to be back home in Sweden (she'd only been gone a handful of years after all), and that they have chosen London makes all the sense in the world, too. Sweden may still be filled with too many memories of her old life with Jonas (one never knows, the heart is a strange country). London is the best choice imo. Their children could even attend school in Sweden, I would think.

Anyway, I see nothing amiss.

 

[MARG]

Haha, different times, different rules.

Also, who could see Madde living out of the city? Not me, she's as much city girl as they come here in Sweden.

Hmm, the King's sisters were never in the succession, whereas both Madeleine, Leonore and Madeleine's unborn child are. Leonore is also an HRH, and I assume her sibling will be also.

As to living in the country, I don't see it either. However, I am not persuaded that media harassment is why they are moving to London. I think Sweden really is too small for Chris to work in.

As to getting media harassment in London . . . well they got lots when they were in NY, and heaps and heaps in Stockholm, so how could London possibly be worse.

 

[Pranter]

I've always heard the paps were the worst in the U.K. ...not sure if that's true or not...but if it is I can see how they'd be a lot worse than in the U.S. or Sweden.


LaRae

 

[Muhler]

I doubt the British press would be interested in M&C. There are loads of other celebs in London of much more interest to the British public.
But there are lots of local paparazzi willing to cover M&C for the Swedish press as long as they are hot in Sweden. Just as London is a cheap flight away for Swedish press and freelancers.

However things are going to calm down for a period after Sofia and CP's wedding as the main focus will switch to them.
Time enough for M&C to settle in London.

In six months or so we'll see what happens.
If Sofia & CP are busy, then there will be three working SRF couples, to keep the Swedish press and public happy. and there may be a bigger chance that M&C will be left alone
However, if Sofia and CP are inactive then some of the focus will switch back to Madeleine: She lives around the corner, why isn't she helping Victoria and Daniel? Or alternatively: Why don't we ever see Chris?

Another question I'd like to know your opinion of is: Presuming Madeleine intends to be a semi-active member of the SRF, should Chris attend more events with her than he has done previously?

My reply would be yes.
For better or for worse Chris did marry a princess. Whether he likes the attention or not or whether he even believe in royalty is beside the point.
He is an intelligent well educated man, surely he should realize that Madeleine has obligations from time to time, where it is expected her husband attends. That's part of the show.
If he doesn't care about Sweden, the Swedes and the SRF he needs a whack in the back of the head. If he is just stubborn, he needs to swallow a camel or two and understand it wont kill him to attend the odd gala dinner. (*)
It's no different for Madeleine, she married a businessman and that means she has to attend boring dinners and boring receptions from time to time with her husband.

- At least until Madeleine finally realize that she, like most other younger royal siblings, is de facto just one generation away from being a commoner and that her future and that of her children lies within the O'Neil dynasty not the Bernadotte dynasty.

(*) I suspect that no one has actually sat down and really explained Chris what it means to marry an active royal and what it really means to marry into a monarchy.
When he first met Madeleine, he met a wealthy upper class girl, who had a title, but didn't use it ("just call me Madde" or something like that) and who seemingly didn't care about being royal. Just like so many other women he would have met before.
He and Madeleine would have been floating on pink clouds where there are no problems and hurrah. Assuring each other that "it doesn't matter", "People won't mind" and "the Swedes are overbearing" and so on.

 

[Lady Nimue]

I honestly don't see any problem with Chris and find the statements that there is something amiss odd. If there really was a problem, wouldn't the King get in there and sort it all out? I would guess he would.

It seems to me that Chris is not titled. He may or may not show up at royal functions. Totally up to him and Madeleine, and that's totally cool imo. I think too much is being made of Chris, and I don't think Chris really cares about, or pays attention to, the press about him. Just a hunch. He's doing his own thing.

 

[Queen Claude]

I don't mean this in a harsh way, but I think that Madeleine is at the root of the mixed signals and the not so nice stories in the press that resulted about her living situation. It was established from the beginning that Chris will not take a title and that his profession will not allow him to be based in Sweden but if his schedule permits he will participate in SRF events, and he's done just that.

I think that things got murky when Leonore was given HRH status, which I assume that Madeleine was behind with the support of her parents, because with that status comes the requirement that Leonore reside in Sweden. I think that the expectation is that she be based in Sweden when she's school age.

I think what really got the ball rolling was when the O'Neill's left New York. The original announcement was that they will settle in Europe. Madeleine then registered herself, Leonore and Chris in Sweden which is understandable because they had to be registered somewhere, but then she also noted that their stay was permanent. This event was reported when it happened in February. Then a couple months later Chris registered himself in London and that was not found out until this week and it was part of stories reporting that Chris was not happy in Sweden and has moved to London. Of course people and the press are going to wonder why Madeleine represented that their stay in Sweden was permanent only to have reports, a very short time later, that Chris has moved to London.

I think that the set up where two princesses of Sweden do not live in Sweden is going to get criticized but I understand why Madeleine is choosing to live with her husband out of the country and just do selected events. However I think that she should be prepared to get criticized by the press for it and have a thick skin when the press does negative stories about her not being based in Sweden.

 

[Anne2]

I don't mean this in a harsh way, but I think that Madeleine is at the root of the mixed signals and the not so nice stories in the press about her living situation. It was established from the beginning that Chris will not take a title and that his profession will not allow him to be based in Sweden but if his schedule permits he will participate in SRF events, and he's done just that.

....

I think that the set up where two princesses of Sweden do not live in Sweden is going to get criticized but I understand why Madeleine is choosing to live with her husband out of the country and just do selected events. However I think that she should be prepared to get criticized by the press for it and have a thick skin when the press does negative stories about her not being based in Sweden.

I certainly agree with most of this message. I wish them the strength to adapt to the situation, and have a hard skin towards criticism. Whatever they do, which would necessarily be a bit atypical against. I think Madie has no alternative choice. I wish them the best, and support from their respective familes.

 

[JR76]

I think that things got murky when Leonore was given HRH status, which I assume that Madeleine was behind with the support of her parents, because with that status comes the requirement that Leonore reside in Sweden. I think that the expectation is that she be based in Sweden when she's school age.

Rumour has it that Madeleine wanted to relinquish her titles and her HRH status when she married like her aunts did but that the King persuaded her not too. Madeleine apparently never has been comfortable in her royal role and dreads representing on her own.
When it comes to Leonor having a title we have to remember that at birth she the spare of her generation. I think that the King wants to avoid a repeat of the situation he was in growing up, being sole heir to the throne with all the pressure it put both on him and the few other members of the Royal House.


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[Queen Claude]

Rumour has it that Madeleine wanted to relinquish her titles and her HRH status when she married like her aunts did but that the King persuaded her not too. Madeleine apparently never has been comfortable in her royal role and dreads representing on her own.
When it comes to Leonor having a title we have to remember that at birth she the spare of her generation. I think that the King wants to avoid a repeat of the situation he was in growing up, being sole heir to the throne with all the pressure it put both on him and the few other members of the Royal House.


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I have definitely heard that Madeleine (and Carl Philip) are not comfortable with certain types of royal duties. When I've heard rumors about Madeleine wanting to relinquish her royal status it is usually in conjunction with her being in despair over the criticism she gets, but there are also rumors that she likes many aspects of being a princess.

The situation with Carl Gustaf was that he was the sole heir because he was male that has since changed. Madeleine and her children's position will come after Victoria and her children and Carl Philip and his children. Maybe Madeleine is going along with her father's wish, and if that's the case it seems quite extreme for him to foist something like HRH status on Leonore given the requirements, if it is something that Madeleine and presumably Chris do not want.

 

[cdm]

I could see Chris and Madeleine living a London life like Pavlos and Marie-Chantal.

 

[Mbruno]

I honestly don't see any problem with Chris and find the statements that there is something amiss odd. If there really was a problem, wouldn't the King get in there and sort it all out? I would guess he would.

It seems to me that Chris is not titled. He may or may not show up at royal functions. Totally up to him and Madeleine, and that's totally cool imo. I think too much is being made of Chris, and I don't think Chris really cares about, or pays attention to, the press about him. Just a hunch. He's doing his own thing.

The problem seems to be that, in Sweden, many "royal functions" seem to be also "family events" like the King's birthday, and it is odd that Chris, as a son-in-law, did not attend. Likewise, it is odd that he moved to England in April when his wife is about to have a baby in June and apparently was left alone with their infant daughter in Sweden. If it is true that the family is going to live in a house owned by Chris' mother in London, I guess the official court version that he is in England "looking for accomodation" is not terribly convincing.

I could see Chris and Madeleine living a London life like Pavlos and Marie-Chantal.

There is a difference though. Nobody in Greece (or anywhere else for that matter) cares about Pavlos and Marie-Chantal, but the Swedish public still has an interest in M&C. As Muhler said, they will be harassed by paps who can sell their pictures to Swedish (or maybe even German) magazines in case the British press is not interested.

 

[Queen Claude]

For me the biggest problem with the King's Birthday was that Madeleine looked overwhelmed given that she was pregnant out to there and tried unsuccessfully to handle a very squirmy child.

I thought squirmy Leonore was very cute but it did draw attention to Madeline not having a partner by her side and I think that, like not being based in Sweden, it is something that the O'Neill's need to be prepared for given the decisions that they made.

 

[LadyFinn]

The Queen speaks Swedish with a very heavy accent but her grammar is ok. Swedes in general are very picky when it comes to foreign accents but I think the problem is that Silvia speaks a bit hesitantly which gives the impression of that she has to think before she speaks. But I've heard her do the same when speaking both English and German.


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For me as a Finn, to whom swedish is not native language, queen Silvia speaking swedish is quite difficult to understand. I have to concentrate and listen to her very carefully. The queen makes grammar mistakes, she has quite an accent and she has a habit to swallow the ends of the words so that one is not always sure what she said.

Danish royal expert Lars Hovbakke Sørensen about the move to London
"It is a signal that they are not interested in being a part of the Swedish royal family, and therefore report themselves out of it. It is critical in relation to the Swedes' views on Madeleine and the Royal family in general". he told to Berlingske.
Ekspert_ Prinsesse Madeleines flytning er kritisk for kongehuset - Royale _ www.bt.dk
Translation

 

[Lady Nimue]

The problem seems to be that, in Sweden, many "royal functions" seem to be also "family events" like the King's birthday, and it is odd that Chris, as a son-in-law, did not attend. Likewise, it is odd that he moved to England in April when his wife is about to have a baby in June and apparently was left alone with their infant daughter in Sweden. If it is true that the family is going to live in a house owned by Chris' mother in London, I guess the official court version that he is in England "looking for accomodation" is not terribly convincing.

You seem to be suggesting something is amiss with the marriage, or that's how I read your post. Is that what you are intimating?

It will be interesting to see if Chris shows up for the wedding. If he doesn't, I might share your sense of 'oddness'.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Bunte print has an article about the move to London, they claim its for tax reasons: In Sweden, Chris' tax data would have become public knowledge while in London its anonymous. As Chris himself has hinted in an interview, not all businesses are going well. Some of them lose money, his brother in law had to help. They also claim that Chris is doing business with shady companies located in tax havens, letterbox companies. Considering what is happening in Switzerland and a worldwide crackdown on tax evasion going on, Chris' business is a risky business and won't make him any more popular.

Bunte claims that Chris & Madde are moving into a house that is owned by Chris' mother.

 

[Mbruno]

Bunte print has an article about the move to London, they claim its for tax reasons: In Sweden, Chris' tax data would have become public knowledge while in London its anonymous. As Chris himself has hinted in an interview, not all businesses are going well. Some of them lose money, his brother in law had to help. They also claim that Chris is doing business with shady companies located in tax havens, letterbox companies. Considering what is happening in Switzerland and a worldwide crackdown on tax evasion going on, Chris' business is a risky business and won't make him any more popular.

If that is true, it doesn't sound good. Chris might end up becoming toxic for the royal family.

 

[LadyFinn]

Bunte print has an article about the move to London, they claim its for tax reasons: In Sweden, Chris' tax data would have become public knowledge while in London its anonymous. As Chris himself has hinted in an interview, not all businesses are going well. Some of them lose money, his brother in law had to help. They also claim that Chris is doing business with shady companies located in tax havens, letterbox companies. Considering what is happening in Switzerland and a worldwide crackdown on tax evasion going on, Chris' business is a risky business and won't make him any more popular.

Bunte claims that Chris & Madde are moving into a house that is owned by Chris' mother.

There is nothing new, similar thoughts have circulated in swedish press and forums too. And already earlier the swedish and german press wrote about Chris' companies having connections to tax haven companies.