Princess Madeleine & Family Moving to Florida: August 2018

[Mbruno]

Those extended periods in Sweden will stop as soon as the children have to go to school.

Not necessarily since "her extended periods of time" in Sweden normally coincide with winter break or summer vacation in US schools.

 

[Queen Claude]

Those extended periods in Sweden will stop as soon as the children have to go to school.

Yep because my prediction is that they will be living in Sweden when the children are school-aged.

 

[LadyFinn]

Chris said at Johan T Lindwall's interview in summer 2015 when he had moved to London and Madeleine was moving in the end of the summer.
Why don't you live in Sweden?
- We would definitely stay in Sweden if it had gone with my job, but I have a job that requires I'm in London. Until now, I have had three to four flight per week in Europe, mostly to London. It doesn't work in the long run. At the end of New York time I commuted between London and New York. It wouldn't also worked in the long run. I had a while twelve days a month from New York to London. I and Madeleine have now taken the decision that we are going to stay in London so that I can do my work. I don't want to come home to a hotel room alone. I want to come home to my family and eat dinner together. Everything else is not important. It is I who am the breadwinner of the family. I must first and foremost think of our little family.

So does Chris now have a new job? Or has his job now changed dramatically and he doesn't have to fly from Florida to London as often as he flew from New York to London?

 

[LadyFinn]

Chris managed finally sell the villa and the family has moved to new home in Florida.

When the court last week announced that Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and children moved to Florida, many assumed that they were living in Chris's summerhouse in West Palm Beach, Florida.
The house is 309 square meters, has five bedrooms, five bathrooms, dark wood floors, design kitchens and a heated pool - and is just a few minutes from a sandy beach with exclusive beach club.
But now, Expressen can reveal that the house is sold and handed over to the new owners this week.
According to data, the villa was sold for USD 3.65 million, equivalent to just over SEK 32.5 million.
When Chris bought the house in the summer of 2008, he paid SEK 17.6 million according to official documents, thus earning a profit of 14.9 million.
But Chris O'Neill had hoped for more. In his brokerage advertisement, he demanded almost SEK 35 million. And in an earlier attempt to sell the house he hopelessly hoped to get close to SEK 10 million more than that.
Margareta Thorgren says she has not received "the latest information" and therefore can not confirm the sale. Nor does she want to give any further information:
- This is the family's private business and nothing that the court speaks about. But the house has been out for sale for a period so the information you have can probably be true. It's not unlikely considering the house has been out for a while.
How have they had the first time in Florida?
- The family has spent a long period in Sweden and throughout the summer on Öland. With the move, there is a lot of focus on it, but the family feels good and looking forward to their new stay in the United States.
The house has been for sale since the summer of 2015. From the outset it was out for the equivalent of SEK 44.5 million.
When no-one was willing to pay, the price was lowered several times - while the family continued to use the villa as a vacation home while waiting for the right buyer. Last spring the whole family was in place in Florida.
The villa has also been rented for rent for several periods in the last six years, the price has then varied between SEK 180,000 and 270,000 a month, according to a local brokerage firm.
Documents that the Expressen has previously published show that Chris O'Neill bought the house through his company Bahama Beach Holdings, which in turn is owned by a letterbox company in Belize. Through the company, in July 2008, he borrowed almost SEK 11 million from Lydian Private Bank to complete the deal. The company was founded just a month earlier together with Chris's brother-in-law Ernst Abensperg und Traun, but according to the documents, Chris was a lone borrower.
The house was built in 1954.
Princess Madeleine, Chris and the children have already moved into the family's new home in Florida.
Prinsessan Madeleines och Chris hemliga husaffär i Florida

And perhaps soon Expressen tells where Madeleine and Chris live and how much their new home cost.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Oh I’ll bet Chris just loves it when the Swedish press dig into his private business and make it look like there’s something fishy about it.

As for the new home, it’s possible they’ll just be renting

 

[carlota]

Oh I’ll bet Chris just loves it when the Swedish press dig into his private business and make it look like there’s something fishy about it.

As for the new home, it’s possible they’ll just be renting

poor chris. he made clear he didn't want a title so that he could continue his life and then this...

can't wait to hear more about their florida plans. how very exciting for them to go to a sunny place after NY, london and stockholm.

 

[Somebody]

Chris said at Johan T Lindwall's interview in summer 2015 when he had moved to London and Madeleine was moving in the end of the summer.
Why don't you live in Sweden?
- We would definitely stay in Sweden if it had gone with my job, but I have a job that requires I'm in London. Until now, I have had three to four flight per week in Europe, mostly to London. It doesn't work in the long run. At the end of New York time I commuted between London and New York. It wouldn't also worked in the long run. I had a while twelve days a month from New York to London. I and Madeleine have now taken the decision that we are going to stay in London so that I can do my work. I don't want to come home to a hotel room alone. I want to come home to my family and eat dinner together. Everything else is not important. It is I who am the breadwinner of the family. I must first and foremost think of our little family.

So does Chris now have a new job? Or has his job now changed dramatically and he doesn't have to fly from Florida to London as often as he flew from New York to London?

This time they explained that Chris can do his job anywhere and his job will still be London based, so it all doesn't make sense to me. Living in London did but this move doesn't. According to the court it is not for business reasons but it's just good timing for a stint in Florida?!

 

[Somebody]

I totally agree with Karin Lennmor. Madeleine needs to decide...
If it is a private life, go ahead and be happy. But then you need to do this without the royal status for you and your children. You still have a voice then, this status has been given to you by birth and will always be half the battle.
If it is a royal life, you need to support your parents and your sister.

You can't have it all

I don't agree that she has to turn in her titles if they decide to live a more private life. She was born the daughter of a king and because of that she is a princess and a royal highness.

In the Netherlands the princesses and prince that were removed from the line of succession remained prince(ss) and royal highnesses as well. Laurent doesn't do much in Belgium either (but bring harm) but nobody would ask him to give up his title and his children and nieces and nephews by princess Astrid aren't expected to carry out royal engagement but will be princes and princesses of Belgium for life. So, why this close tie to 'living a royal life' to be allowed to keep her title and style?

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

If Madeleine gave up her royal status it might make things worse. The press and public would blame Chris and harass Madeleine for not being satisfied with being a princess and proud of her country and the RF.

 

[jacqui24]

If Madeleine gave up her royal status it might make things worse. The press and public would blame Chris and harass Madeleine for not being satisfied with being a princess and proud of her country and the RF.

I agree.

Quite frankly, how does anyone not see something like this eventually happening once CP had children and Victoria had Oscar? Chris has always been clear he wants to lead a private life. I'm not against the children not being in the line of succession, but I think they should maintain their titles once given as others have also maintained their titles without carrying out royal duties. Does it even matter if they are in line to succession at this point being that Victoria's children and CP's children are both ahead of them. I think there is enough cushion there. As for Madeline, she's not being supported by royal funds when she's not carrying out duties. What is the harm?

 

[Skippy]

Chris might want to lead a private life, but his wife is a HRH and a Princess of Sweden, so he can't live as private as he may wish to.
Madeleine appears to juggle her own background with the wishes of her husband. Not to say she doesn't share his views, but Chris' wish for a private life does lead to struggles between private and his wife's birth background.

If he really wants to be private, then he should shun the royal appearances and only appear at family gatherings. But then he would get the backlash of leaving his wife alone...
She is in a very difficult situation and there are no royal counterparts to compare. Only remotely in Norway with Princess Märtha Louise and Ari Behn. He remained a private citizen and she relinquished her HRH status. Both only turned up to family events. And she for her patronages.

I don't think "Princess Madeleine" would hurt. But I think it's the "HRH" that hurts in combination with her own wish (apparently?) of living a more private life and now moving to the USA.

In The Netherlands the princes do not have a spouse that may be seen as "transverse". Everyone earns his own money and the entire family (minus the "senior generation") only shows up on King's Day. That's the outline and that's what us Dutch get.
Clear, transparant and no back and forth.

 

[rchainho]

Are the girls having a swedish education?

 

[Queen Claude]

I don't think that Chris is as fixated on a private life as many have claimed. No one who is in the public eye, whether by chance or happenstance, relishes their finances being made public.



Madeleine was born the daughter of a King and I don't think that she needs to relinquish her HRH styling or her place in the line of succession merely because she is not based in Sweden, although I don't think that it would be a big deal if she did just that and became Princess Madeleine, Mrs. Chris O'Neill.



I think the sticking point are the kids. The Swedish monarchy, by law or precedent, does not seem to allow for middle ground, either you're all the way in: HRH, Prince/Princess, Duke/Duchess of ... and in the line of succession, or you're out and you're X Bernadotte. I think that some have said that it is unfair to strip Madeleine's kids of their titles when they have done nothing wrong, and that makes sense, but then is it fair for some Swedish duchies to have Dukes and Duchesses who are a presence in the duchy while other duchies have absent Dukes and Duchesses.


Personally I think that the matter is going to be resolved because Madeleine and her family are going to be based in Sweden, and this period of uncertainty is going to become a distant memory. However, I think that it would be wise for the matter to be addressed before Oscar comes of age.

 

[Mbruno]

I don't think that Chris is as fixated on a private life as many have claimed. No one who is in the public eye, whether by chance or happenstance, relishes their finances being made public.



Madeleine was born the daughter of a King and I don't think that she needs to relinquish her HRH styling or her place in the line of succession merely because she is not based in Sweden, although I don't think that it would be a big deal if she did just that and became Princess Madeleine, Mrs. Chris O'Neill.



I think the sticking point are the kids. The Swedish monarchy, by law or precedent, does not seem to allow for middle ground, either you're all the way in: HRH, Prince/Princess, Duke/Duchess of ... and in the line of succession, or you're out and you're X Bernadotte. I think that some have said that it is unfair to strip Madeleine's kids of their titles when they have done nothing wrong, and that makes sense, but then is it fair for some Swedish duchies to have Dukes and Duchesses who are a presence in the duchy while other duchies have absent Dukes and Duchesses.


Personally I think that the matter is going to be resolved because Madeleine and her family are going to be based in Sweden, and this period of uncertainty is going to become a distant memory. However, I think that it would be wise for the matter to be addressed before Oscar comes of age.

The law does not require Madeleine to give up her HRH status or her place in the line of succession. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Since Madaleine is a direct descendant of King Carl Gustaf who is a member of the Church of Sweden, was raised in Sweden, and married with the consent of the Swedish government given upon request by the King, I don’t see any way she could legally give up her place in the line of succession other than her ceasing to profess the Lutheran faith or becoming the Head of State of a foreign country without the consent of the King and the parliament of Sweden.

Her children’s situation on the other hand is different since, unlike Madeleine, they have not fulfilled yet the requirement of being raised in Sweden.

 

[JR76]

I don’t see any way she could legally give up her place in the line of succession other than her ceasing to profess the Lutheran faith or becoming the Head of State of a foreign country without the consent of the King and the parliament of Sweden.

That is interesting! Could a dynast voluntarily give up his or her place in the Line of succession and membership of the Royal House without breaking any of the requirements.

 

[Queen Claude]

The law does not require Madeleine to give up her HRH status or her place in the line of succession. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Since Madaleine is a direct descendant of King Carl Gustaf who is a member of the Church of Sweden, was raised in Sweden, and married with the consent of the Swedish government given upon request by the King, I don’t see any way she could legally give up her place in the line of succession other than her ceasing to profess the Lutheran faith or becoming the Head of State of a foreign country without the consent of the King and the parliament of Sweden.

Her children’s situation on the other hand is different since, unlike Madeleine, they have not fulfilled yet the requirement of being raised in Sweden.

I stated in my comment that there is no need for Madeleine to relinquish her HRH styling or her place in the line of succession but it is not a big deal if she decided to do just that. The sticking point is more Madeleine's children than Madeleine herself.

 

[Pranter]

Perhaps by not raising them in Sweden the statement is being made that they won't use their titles...becoming more like the Wessex children, titled but expected to be 'private' citizens etc.


LaRae

 

[JR76]

Perhaps by not raising them in Sweden the statement is being made that they won't use their titles...becoming more like the Wessex children, titled but expected to be 'private' citizens etc.


LaRae

Is is a matter of discussion what would happen with the children's titles if the loose their place in the line of succession. When Prince Oscar married noble woman Ebba Munck in he lost his title and status but both him and his wife had the title
Prince/ss Bernadotte. Contrary to this those princes who married against the requirements of the Order of succession in the 30s and 40s lost both their titles and status. Because of this there seems to be a connection between titles and a place in the line of succession. If you loose one you loose the other.

 

[loonytick]

It gets said again and again that there's no precedent for an HRH leading a primarily private life, but look at Madeleine's aunt, HRH Princess Birgitta. She plays the princess role at big family events, but 99.9% of her life now is golfing in Majorica. She married a prince (technically, one of those German princes-without-a-principality sort of guys), yes, but she's also created a precedent for a Swedish HRH fading into privacy as an older sibling's line secures its hold on succession.

 

[Mbruno]

That is interesting! Could a dynast voluntarily give up his or her place in the Line of succession and membership of the Royal House without breaking any of the requirements.

I am not a legal expert, but I don’t think so. Since her place in the line to the throne is set by law, my understanding is that the only way she could lose her succession rights would be if she violated one of requirements in the Act of Succession, or if the Swedish parliament amended the Act of Succession specifically to exclude her. The latter possibility would require the special amendment procedure prescribed for Fundamental Laws of the realm.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I think that some have said that it is unfair to strip Madeleine's kids of their titles when they have done nothing wrong, and that makes sense, but then is it fair for some Swedish duchies to have Dukes and Duchesses who are a presence in the duchy while other duchies have absent Dukes and Duchesses.

Would the residents of Gotland, Ångermanland, and Blekinge prefer their duchies to have an absent duchess/duke or no duchess/duke? Are there any Swedish members here who can comment?

Only remotely in Norway with Princess Märtha Louise and Ari Behn. He remained a private citizen and she relinquished her HRH status. Both only turned up to family events. And she for her patronages.

Although he was effectively a private citizen, Ari Behn was a member of the Norwegian Royal Family during his marriage to Princess Märtha Louise.

 

[LadyFinn]

Obviously it is possible to give up a title, because Madeleine said an interview she and Chris gave to Svenska Dagbladet in July 2013, that they discussed with her parents if she would give up her title like Märtha Louise, but they thought this way was the best for them.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ine-and-chris-oneill-35125-5.html#post1575102

 

[Queen Claude]

I think that anyone is allowed to voluntarily give up their role, aka renunciation / abdication. Yeah Parliament may have to be involved and accept the renunciation / abdication, but IMO still it is within a royal's purview to step aside.

 

[Mbruno]

Obviously it is possible to give up a title, because Madeleine said an interview she and Chris gave to Svenska Dagbladet in July 2013, that they discussed with her parents if she would give up her title like Märtha Louise, but they thought this way was the best for them.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ine-and-chris-oneill-35125-5.html#post1575102

She may be able to give up her title. What I was saying is that I don’t think she can unilaterally give up her succession rights.

 

[GracieGiraffe]

Seems like we’re about two years premature on this discussion. But since we are discussing it my guess is in the summer of 2020 they will all set up residency in Sweden very publicly and discretely vacation during school holidays elsewhere. Sort of a discrete dual residency.

Or they’ll just remain abroad and they and pull the middle of the road retaining titles but not succession rights, or just ignoring the discussion altogether

 

[Denville]

She may be able to give up her title. What I was saying is that I don’t think she can unilaterally give up her succession rights.

If she does not want to continue n the succession Im sure she can do so, it would probably invovlve legal procedure, but I can't see why they could complel hr to go on in the succession if she has little chance of being queen and does not want the Role...

 

[Pranter]

Is is a matter of discussion what would happen with the children's titles if the loose their place in the line of succession. When Prince Oscar married noble woman Ebba Munck in he lost his title and status but both him and his wife had the title
Prince/ss Bernadotte. Contrary to this those princes who married against the requirements of the Order of succession in the 30s and 40s lost both their titles and status. Because of this there seems to be a connection between titles and a place in the line of succession. If you loose one you loose the other.

Do the Swedish people care if Madeleine's children retain and/or use their titles really? I can see they might be expecting Madeleine herself to carry out royal duties etc ..but perhaps not the children?


LaRae

 

[xenobia]

Do the Swedish people care if Madeleine's children retain and/or use their titles really? I can see they might be expecting Madeleine herself to carry out royal duties etc ..but perhaps not the children?

LaRae

My personal thoughts on this:

The main problem isn't the question about titles and succession. It's the inconsistency. I want to know what to expect. If they want to stay in the US and just come home to Sweden for the National day in june and nobel in december, I'm fine with that. If she moves back here and take on more royal duties, that's also great. If they move back to London - fine.

But I'm really tired of this inconsistency. Let us know what to expect. Give us a clear path ahead, and follow it. I actually think that most people here would appreciate that.

 

[cdm]

Why is there a need to have them give up their titles or step out of the line of succession?
They’ve got their titles because of who they are and not because of what they do.

 

[Stefan]

Why is there a need to have them give up their titles or step out of the line of succession?
They’ve got their titles because of who they are and not because of what they do.

Because in the swedsih Law of succession it states that to in line of succession you have to be brought up in the Realm. this was before Madeleine`s Wedding interpreted by that Marshall of the Realm as that the children have to go to school in Sweden.