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  #41  
Old 08-03-2018, 08:55 AM
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I have yet to see a report that Madeleine was in any way coerced or pressured by her father or others into giving her children titles. I'd appreciate it if someone would post these reports because so far I have only seen this assertion made in comments sections on message boards and blogs.


Madeleine said a few years ago that it is a matter of when, not if, when it comes to living in Sweden, and I am willing to bet that she still feels this way and is letting Chris' wants and needs be paramount now but the end game is for the O'Neill branch of the Bernadottes to be based in Sweden.
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  #42  
Old 08-03-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
You can't compare Madeleine's situation to princesses Margaretha, Désirée, Christina and Birgitta. They are not in the line of succession, their children are not in the line of succession. They don't get apanage when they work, Madeleine does. Besides princess Birgitta they are not HRH princesses and princesses of Sweden. Margaretha's, Désirée's and Christina's princess titles are only an courtesy title given them when they married a commoner "princess Christina, mrs Magnuson". They are not duchesses of X. Only princess Birgitta is a member of the House of Bernadotte. Besides, if you compare princess Christina to Madeleine, princess Christina has worked very much for Sweden and swedish royal court and family even during the last years, although she is not in the line of succession and not a member of The House of Bernadotte.
Agreed. Prince Carl Philip and his children are a fairer comparison, since their situations are similar (apart from staying in Sweden).

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[...] Given that evrn now they stste that Chris could do his job anywhere in the world, apparently they just like Florida (or their house there) and don't mind being a long way from Sweden eventhough Madeleine tried to convince the Swedes otherwise.
Perhaps living in Sweden is the genuine wish of Princess Madeleine but her husband will not agree to it.

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don’t see the point of the children being made HRHs and courtesy dukes/duchesses if there was an expectation that they would not be raised in Sweden and, hence, under the law, would have to forefeit their succession rights eventually. The only explanation to me is that the King, the Court, and maybe even Madeleine herself were still operating under the assumption that the family would move back to Sweden when the children reached school age. As I said, that looks like wishful thinking to me now, but, given the statements from the Court, it looks like reality hasn’t sunk in yet for them.
The children will not necessarily lose their HRHs and dukedoms if they forfeit their succession rights, but even if that is the plan, they were in the order of succession when they were christened, and accordingly, it was appropriate for them to have the same titles as the other princesses and princes in the order of succession.
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  #43  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
From the reports, I don't think Madeleine was given a choice with the titles of her children. When Leonore was born, she was 5th in line, Estelle was an only child and her uncle was childless. The King made a wise decision to include Madeleine's children in the Succession. Madeleine knows the rules regarding Succession membership. As for the titles, unless they receive an taxpayer's money, what is the issue?
I do think that giving Leonore a title and place in the line of succession wasn’t necessarily Madeleine’s choice. When Leonore was born, Estelle was the only grandchild, CP wasn’t even engaged at the time, and at least here at TRF, I remember us speculating about if Estelle might be Victoria and Daniel’s only child, and that Leonore was given titles in an “heir and the spare” situation. And I’m guessing the other children also had to be given titles to match that of their sister. Now Oscar, CP, and CP’s two boys are ahead of Leonore, and it’s highly unlikely that any of Madeleine’s children will come close to the throne.

I think that Chris would be happiest just living as a regular family with only the bare minimum of royal responsibilities (Nobel ceremonies, big celebrations like christenings or weddings, etc.). Do you think that they would give up the titles for their children by living in the US?

Also, what is the children’s citizenship? Being born in the US Leonore automatically has US citizenship in addition to her Swedish citizenship. Are the other children dual citizens as well (as children of a US citizen), even though they were born in Sweden?
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  #44  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


The children will not necessarily lose their HRHs and dukedoms if they forfeit their succession rights, but even if that is the plan, they were in the order of succession when they were christened, and accordingly, it was appropriate for them to have the same titles as the other princesses and princes in the order of succession.



I agree that they were technically in the line of succession when they were born. However. the interpretation that "being raised in the realm" means living in Sweden from approximately age six, speaking Swedish fluently, and having a Swedish secondary school leaving certificate is a purely subjective interpretation made by the Marshal of the Court at the time. Going back to my point, if the King and the Court were 100 % sure that the children would be raised overseas and would never be able to fulfill the requirements above, then the sensible thing would have been to declare them out of order of succession from day one and start calling them Mr/Ms O'Neill. In my opinion, the only reason why the Court decided to delay that decision was (or is) that they still expect (or hope) that Madeleine's family will move back to Sweden.



Frankly, anything we might say about Chris and Madeleine's private life and the decisions they make as a couple is pure speculation on our part, but, personally, I agree with other posters that Madeleine probably wants to go back to Sweden and would like her children to keep their royal status. I don't buy the version in the Swedish press that she "wants to live an anonymous life" and "become a commoner". I believe she is moving to Florida just because she is bowing down to Chris and what is more convenient for him, which, again, even in an egalitarian culture like Sweden, shows asymmetric treatment based on gender. I am pretty sure for example that, if Carl Philip had married a foreign woman with an international career in finance (as was the case of Máxima Zorreguieta BTW), she would have quit her job to go to Sweden and become a princess, and not the other way around.
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  #45  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I agree that they were technically in the line of succession when they were born. However. the interpretation that "being raised in the realm" means living in Sweden from approximately age six, speaking Swedish fluently, and having a Swedish secondary school leaving certificate is a purely subjective interpretation made by the Marshal of the Court at the time. Going back to my point, if the King and the Court were 100 % sure that the children would be raised overseas and would never be able to fulfill the requirements above, then the sensible thing would have been to declare them out of order of succession from day one and start calling them Mr/Ms O'Neill. In my opinion, the only reason why the Court decided to delay that decision was (or is) that they still expect (or hope) that Madeleine's family will move back to Sweden.



Frankly, anything we might say about Chris and Madeleine's private life and the decisions they make as a couple is pure speculation on our part, but, personally, I agree with other posters that Madeleine probably wants to go back to Sweden and would like her children to keep their royal status. I don't buy the version in the Swedish press that she "wants to live an anonymous life" and "become a commoner". I believe she is moving to Florida just because she is bowing down to Chris and what is more convenient for him, which, again, even in an egalitarian culture like Sweden, shows asymmetric treatment based on gender. I am pretty sure for example that, if Carl Philip had married a foreign woman with an international career in finance (as was the case of Máxima Zorreguieta BTW), she would have quit her job to go to Sweden and become a princess, and not the other way around.
I think that you’re absolutely spot on with the gender roles piece. Although if Chris is in international finance, couldn’t he do that based in Sweden? IMO it’s more of a case of him not wanting to live in Sweden, because I’m sure he could make his business work being based in Sweden if he really wanted to.
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  #46  
Old 08-03-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
I think that you’re absolutely spot on with the gender roles piece. Although if Chris is in international finance, couldn’t he do that based in Sweden? IMO it’s more of a case of him not wanting to live in Sweden, because I’m sure he could make his business work being based in Sweden if he really wanted to.
Chris' friend Cedric Notz moved to Sweden to live with Andrea Brodin and their daughter Isabella. He works as the member of the Board of EDL Capital (UK) in London and as the co-founder of AGLeasing in Baku, Azerbaijan. Cedric has previously also lived in Baku and he worked with Chris in Noster Capital.
Cedric Notz - LinkedIn
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  #47  
Old 08-03-2018, 11:13 AM
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I'm one of those who think that since Leonore was in fact the spare of her generation when she was born, the king wanted her to be a HRH and have a place in the line of succession. That was just four years ago, but lots of things has changed. Oscar, Alexander and Gabriels' arrival means that the line of succession is quite well populated even without Leonore and her siblings.

I don't see why it would be a big problem if Leonore and her siblings were no longer in the line of succession. As far as I understand, they could still be "princes(s) xx, duke/duchess of xx".

I also think that Madeleine would love to live in Sweden, but that Chris has used his veto in that question. I do think that his inability - most likely caused by lack of interest - in learning swedish has something to do with it. You can get by very well with english here in Sweden, but if you're going to live here, swedish is pretty much a requirement. I don't think that Chris is the kind of guy who manages well when he has to ask people for help with everyday things that has do be done - reading information from the kids preschool teachers, doing taxes, talking to seniors who want to be nice to them on the street.... stuff like that. He likes to be the breadwinner, the guy in charge. And that's okay. But it's almost impossible to do that in a country where you don't speak the language.

The reason why they move to Florida is purely financial. I don't think they're broke, but I don't think that the business is going that great either. They can't sell the house in Florida, and they rent an expensive flat in London. He doesn't want to live in Sweden. That leaves Florida.
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  #48  
Old 08-03-2018, 11:58 AM
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I

As far as taxpayer’s money is concerned, Madeleine and her family don’t get it directly, but they have access to certain state-funded perks when they are in Sweden, e.g. the apartment in the Royal Mews which they use ( for free ? ) . I also understand that the King is free to fund his younger children from his apanage if he wants to. According to information that LadyFinn posted here, Prince Carl Philip is now funded via the King’s household budget while Madeleine is funded via the Queen’s household. Theoretically, she should be reimbursed for participation in official events only, but I don’t think that the actual funding she gets is completely transparent.
Plus, AFAIK, the Bernadottes are a rich family in their own right and do not need to get money from the state for a member, the king can afford to finance his daughter's lifestyle from his own pocket. And we don't know if it is not secretly Madeleine's wish to leave the duties of her rank behind her and be just Mrs. O'Neill - though I read she has a diplomat's passport from Sweden, so has no immigration problems with the US - like most other spouses of Americans have.
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  #49  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:35 PM
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I've been reading without commenting since yesterday but I'd like to give some input on a few of things discussed here:
1. Finances: Madeleine receives appanage when she does representative work for Sweden. She does not get other state funding other than, as people have pointed out, perks like transportation. Since the funding received by the monarchy is divided into two parts of which one is considered private by the Court we don't know if she receives more but if it's the Kings "salary" he should be able to do what he wants with it. The question about the funding is currently one of the things being handled in an inquiry by the Constitutional assembly of the Parliament. In addition to this both the King and Madeleine herself have a fortune of their own.
2. Titles and succession: While there are no clear rules it's been customary for the monarchy to see titles and a place in the line of succession as going hand in hand. You can't have just one or the other. This is the reason for the loss of titles of the four Swedish Princes who married in violation of the Order of succession in the 30s and 40s. It is mentioned in the preparatory work regarding the changes to the Order of succession which gives it some legal validity.
3. The move and the succession: Margareta Thorgren stressed that Madeleine and Chris felt that now was a good time to make the move since none of the kids are in school. School starts at 7 (förskoleklass = preschool year 0 at age 6) so they still have a few years before Leonore starts school. Maybe they just wanted one last chance to live abroad?
4. Duchies - If their intent have been all along to stay abroad I don't see why the King would bother with the fuss of giving the kids duchies since these have already invested emotionally in the kids and given them considerable gifts. Also to those who think that the kids could keep the ducal title if they lose HRH I highly doubt that. It could be seen as an ennoblement which is against the law and something that I'm sure the whole political establishment would be against.
5. The story about Madeleine wanting to reject her title upon marriage but being forced by her father to keep it has been repeated several time in the media since the wedding but there are no sources for this. She did say in the Skavlan interview that if she, by using her title could raise awareness in issues like children's rights she was proud of being a princess.
https://youtu.be/2U8UZuTHY0M
This is my take on it all. Some based on facts and some my personal reflections.
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  #50  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
I've been reading without commenting since yesterday but I'd like to give some input on a few of things discussed here:
1. Finances: Madeleine receives appanage when she does representative work for Sweden. She does not get other state funding other than, as people have pointed out, perks like transportation. Since the funding received by the monarchy is divided into two parts of which one is considered private by the Court we don't know if she receives more but if it's the Kings "salary" he should be able to do what he wants with it. The question about the funding is currently one of the things being handled in an inquiry by the Constitutional assembly of the Parliament. In addition to this both the King and Madeleine herself have a fortune of their own.
2. Titles and succession: While there are no clear rules it's been customary for the monarchy to see titles and a place in the line of succession as going hand in hand. You can't have just one or the other. This is the reason for the loss of titles of the four Swedish Princes who married in violation of the Order of succession in the 30s and 40s. It is mentioned in the preparatory work regarding the changes to the Order of succession which gives it some legal validity.
3. The move and the succession: Margareta Thorgren stressed that Madeleine and Chris felt that now was a good time to make the move since none of the kids are in school. School starts at 7 (förskoleklass = preschool year 0 at age 6) so they still have a few years before Leonore starts school. Maybe they just wanted one last chance to live abroad?
4. Duchies - If their intent have been all along to stay abroad I don't see why the King would bother with the fuss of giving the kids duchies since these have already invested emotionally in the kids and given them considerable gifts. Also to those who think that the kids could keep the ducal title if they lose HRH I highly doubt that. It could be seen as an ennoblement which is against the law and something that I'm sure the whole political establishment would be against.

This is my take on it all. Some based on facts and some my personal reflections.
Madeleine can also stay for free without rent at their apartment at the Royal Mews, as long as she is the daughter of the king, according to the Instrument of Government (Regeringsformen) 1809.
I agree that it would have been really stupid of the king to give Madeleine's children duchies if the thought would have been that they would live abroad for whole their lives. And that if Madeleine's children lose their HRHs they can't keep their duchies.
Chris was asked at the interview he gave to King Magazine this February, what kind of future he sees to his children. He said that he doesn't know but that they are taking actions to try to prepare their children for totally normal life and that they have put their children to queues to schools in London, you have to do it four years before the school starts. Margareta Thorgren commented that then that now Chris and Madeleine are living in London and she doesn't have any information about what the couple thinks for the future but naturally they keep all doors open for either to live in London or to move to Sweden.

I don't think Madeleine and Chris are broke either. But if the swedish press is right in that Madeleine and Chris paid rent for their apartment in London SEK 170000 a month, in almost three years they lived in London it makes about SEK 6 million. It is a lot of money, over half million GBP. Compared for instance to that Madeleine inherited SEK 10 million from princess Lilian.
And at the same time the house in Florida caused costs. It was for sale, and even for rent, but obviously it was empty most of the time.
And perhaps that, that only Henry d'Abo has put money to Wilton Payments to cover the losses, although he and Chris are the main shareholders, also tells something.
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  #51  
Old 08-03-2018, 01:02 PM
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Madeleine can also stay for free without rent at their apartment at the Royal Mews, as long as she is the daughter of the king, according to the Instrument of Government (Regeringsformen) 1809.
Do you know where in Regeringsformen? I can't find it.
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  #52  
Old 08-03-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
2. Titles and succession: While there are no clear rules it's been customary for the monarchy to see titles and a place in the line of succession as going hand in hand. You can't have just one or the other. This is the reason for the loss of titles of the four Swedish Princes who married in violation of the Order of succession in the 30s and 40s. It is mentioned in the preparatory work regarding the changes to the Order of succession which gives it some legal validity.

4. Duchies - If their intent have been all along to stay abroad I don't see why the King would bother with the fuss of giving the kids duchies since these have already invested emotionally in the kids and given them considerable gifts. Also to those who think that the kids could keep the ducal title if they lose HRH I highly doubt that. It could be seen as an ennoblement which is against the law and something that I'm sure the whole political establishment would be against.
About #2: I think the problem here is that, as you say, there are no clear rules. What applied to the kings sisters in the 1960's isn't necessarily what would apply to Madeleines children in 2018. As far as I can understand, the kids could be princes and princesses, but not HRH, if they are removed from the line of succession. But I'm not at all 100% sure about this.

About #4: I don't think there has ever been a long term plan on where Chris and Madeleine would live. If V&D never had Oscar, and if Carl Philip wouldn't have had his kids, the situation would be different. Had that happened, I think that the family would have settled in Sweden. When Leonore was born, no one knew what would happen. Now we know. They aren't needed for the succession. So Chris and Madeleine can pretty much do what they want for another three years. Leonore starts first grade in august 202. That's plenty of time for them to decide what they want to do. I don't think we'll have an announcement until then.
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  #53  
Old 08-03-2018, 01:30 PM
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About #2: I think the problem here is that, as you say, there are no clear rules. What applied to the kings sisters in the 1960's isn't necessarily what would apply to Madeleines children in 2018. As far as I can understand, the kids could be princes and princesses, but not HRH, if they are removed from the line of succession. But I'm not at all 100% sure about this.

About #4: I don't think there has ever been a long term plan on where Chris and Madeleine would live. If V&D never had Oscar, and if Carl Philip wouldn't have had his kids, the situation would be different. Had that happened, I think that the family would have settled in Sweden. When Leonore was born, no one knew what would happen. Now we know. They aren't needed for the succession. So Chris and Madeleine can pretty much do what they want for another three years. Leonore starts first grade in august 202. That's plenty of time for them to decide what they want to do. I don't think we'll have an announcement until then.
Regarding 2: It's a totally different situation since the King's sisters were never in the line of succession and with the exception of Birgitta they lost their titles. What they had was the Norwegian inspired courtesy title Princess.., Mrs.. without any territorial designation. That could of course inspire a similar solution for the O'Neill kids. Then again we have no idea about what the King could come up with since he's made so many changes during his reign.
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  #54  
Old 08-03-2018, 01:39 PM
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Startled to come on and read this! Last I read Madeleine was talking about wanting to move back to Sweden, or people were ascribing those intentions to her. I agree with others that it may be that living in Florida is the more financially savvy thing to do right now, since they own a house there, and can save money.

Why is it so startling? I’m more startled that you were startled by this - it was just a wonder, after all, nothing official about it had been said (which is why I had said “I expected”). New York is a very influential and important city, and Chris is a graduate from Boston University IIRC so for me it makes seemed like the more likely city of choice, and a lot of other royals also live in New York, so it seems to be one of the preferred royal places to move in the US.
I was just surprised that you were so surprised, it doesn’t seem that shocking a suggestion to me
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  #55  
Old 08-03-2018, 01:47 PM
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The royal family's apanage will be investigated.
One of the reasons is Princess Madeleine's move to Florida.
- Grants should be give to those who need them, not one of Sweden's richest people, said Robert Hannah (L).
But Madeleine has no apanage.
- She receives compensation for the times she represents, said Margareta Thorgren.
By 2018, taxpayers contributed 140 million to the head of state.
But who get part of the royal apanage? Last spring, a united constitutional committee, KU, decided to investigate the matter after the election.
The royal house's legitimacy and trust are at risk of being undermined when as many as 15 people get money from public funds, KU wrote among other things.
One of the reasons is that the issue will be investigated is just the princess Madeleine, said Tina Acketoft, member of the Liberal Democratic Party.
She has moved abroad earlier.
- This shows that it is important that we get an investigation to review who will be able to take part of the apanage. Robert Hannah has previously contended that only the King and Crown Princess should receive the state contribution.
- I think the King and Crown Princess should receive a salary, the same salary as the Prime Minister, and then pay taxes on that salary, says Hannah.
- Contributions will be given to those who need them, not one of Sweden's richest people.
Margareta Thorgren claims that Princess Madeleine does not get any apanage.
- It's a misconception that Princess Madeleine gets some sort of monthly compensation. It only goes to the king and the crown princess, says Thorgren.
- Princess Madeleine receives compensation from the king the times she represents, that's all. I would really wish everyone understood.
Isn't it so that you have to go to Swedish school to stay in the line of succession to the Swedish throne?
- It is a question of interpretation, but it is not relevant today. It will be handled correctly, but one of the reasons for the move is that the princess and her husband today have children in preschool age, says Margareta Thorgren.
She welcomes the inquiry requested by KU.
- We are looking forward to it and that we get clear rules who will do official missions, says Margareta Thorgren.
Princess Madeleine's move does not charge the Swedish state at all, according to Thorgren.
- She will live in a private villa, and rather she will gild the United States with her presence as being a Swedish princess.
Will the princess have still her apartment in the Royal Mews?
- Yes, she will come to Sweden and represent. For that she does not pay any rent because the king has the right of disposal. It derives from a 19th century agreement when the state took over the palaces and gave the king the right to dispose ocer the castles.
Prinsessan Madeleine flyttar till Florida – då utreds kungafamiljens apanage _ Aftonbladet

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Do you know where in Regeringsformen? I can't find it.
I can't find it now either. But from the website of the court
"Statschefen och hans familj disponerar sina bostäder utan att betala hyra. Detta följer av överenskommelsen i vilken monarken frånsade sig ägandet av slotten."
Bakgrund och fakta_ H.M. Konungens dispositionsrätt - Sveriges Kungahus
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  #56  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:18 PM
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It remains an interesting move (both literally and figuratively). Especially yhe vlaims that Chris can work anywhere and will continue to work for the London office and the story about preschool. That would make sense if they had been living in Sweden so far and decided to move abroad for a few years before school starts for Leonore but that's nit the case. They have been a going back and forth between the US, Sweden and the UK since they married and the messaging has been inconsistent.
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  #57  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
The royal family's apanage will be investigated.
One of the reasons is Princess Madeleine's move to Florida.
- Grants should be give to those who need them, not one of Sweden's richest people, said Robert Hannah (L).
But Madeleine has no apanage.
- She receives compensation for the times she represents, said Margareta Thorgren.
By 2018, taxpayers contributed 140 million to the head of state.
But who get part of the royal apanage? Last spring, a united constitutional committee, KU, decided to investigate the matter after the election.
The royal house's legitimacy and trust are at risk of being undermined when as many as 15 people get money from public funds, KU wrote among other things.
One of the reasons is that the issue will be investigated is just the princess Madeleine, said Tina Acketoft, member of the Liberal Democratic Party.
She has moved abroad earlier.
- This shows that it is important that we get an investigation to review who will be able to take part of the apanage. Robert Hannah has previously contended that only the King and Crown Princess should receive the state contribution.
- I think the King and Crown Princess should receive a salary, the same salary as the Prime Minister, and then pay taxes on that salary, says Hannah.
- Contributions will be given to those who need them, not one of Sweden's richest people.
Margareta Thorgren claims that Princess Madeleine does not get any apanage.
- It's a misconception that Princess Madeleine gets some sort of monthly compensation. It only goes to the king and the crown princess, says Thorgren.
- Princess Madeleine receives compensation from the king the times she represents, that's all. I would really wish everyone understood.
Isn't it so that you have to go to Swedish school to stay in the line of succession to the Swedish throne?
- It is a question of interpretation, but it is not relevant today. It will be handled correctly, but one of the reasons for the move is that the princess and her husband today have children in preschool age, says Margareta Thorgren.
She welcomes the inquiry requested by KU.
- We are looking forward to it and that we get clear rules who will do official missions, says Margareta Thorgren.
Princess Madeleine's move does not charge the Swedish state at all, according to Thorgren.
- She will live in a private villa, and rather she will gild the United States with her presence as being a Swedish princess.
Will the princess have still her apartment in the Royal Mews?
- Yes, she will come to Sweden and represent. For that she does not pay any rent because the king has the right of disposal. It derives from a 19th century agreement when the state took over the palaces and gave the king the right to dispose ocer the castles.
Prinsessan Madeleine flyttar till Florida – då utreds kungafamiljens apanage _ Aftonbladet



I can't find it now either. But from the website of the court
"Statschefen och hans familj disponerar sina bostäder utan att betala hyra. Detta följer av överenskommelsen i vilken monarken frånsade sig ägandet av slotten."
Bakgrund och fakta_ H.M. Konungens dispositionsrätt - Sveriges Kungahus

Probably from the time Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte came to Sweden and used his own money to pay for Sweden's debts. Money which he had acquired through gifts from Napoleon for successfully winning him wars and which he had invested carefully. He even sold part of his wife's jewellery and received privileges for himself and his successors from the Swedish parliament in exchange.
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Titles and succession: While there are no clear rules it's been customary for the monarchy to see titles and a place in the line of succession as going hand in hand. You can't have just one or the other. This is the reason for the loss of titles of the four Swedish Princes who married in violation of the Order of succession in the 30s and 40s. It is mentioned in the preparatory work regarding the changes to the Order of succession which gives it some legal validity.
That's indeed true for men. Girls born in the royal family were royal highnesses and princess without succession rights.

Other monarchies nowadays don't have that strict line between: someone needs to have the highest royal style available (royal highness & prince(ss) to be in line of succession.

Currently the first one who is not a royal highness in the European lines of succession are:
In Norway: (HH) prince Sverre Magnus (3rd)
In Denmark: HH prince Nikolai (7th)
In the Netherlands: countess Eloise (5th)
In Belgium: Archduchess Anna Astrid (7th)
In Luxembourg: HH princess Amalia (3rd - and first in her generation!)
In the UK: viscount Severn (11th)
In Spain: Felipe de Marichalar y de Bórbon (4th)
In Sweden: none

Liechtenstein and Monaco are excluded as they aren't royal highnesses.
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:44 PM
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I'm one of those who think that since Leonore was in fact the spare of her generation when she was born, the king wanted her to be a HRH and have a place in the line of succession. That was just four years ago, but lots of things has changed. Oscar, Alexander and Gabriels' arrival means that the line of succession is quite well populated even without Leonore and her siblings.

I don't see why it would be a big problem if Leonore and her siblings were no longer in the line of succession. As far as I understand, they could still be "princes(s) xx, duke/duchess of xx".

I also think that Madeleine would love to live in Sweden, but that Chris has used his veto in that question. I do think that his inability - most likely caused by lack of interest - in learning swedish has something to do with it. You can get by very well with english here in Sweden, but if you're going to live here, swedish is pretty much a requirement. I don't think that Chris is the kind of guy who manages well when he has to ask people for help with everyday things that has do be done - reading information from the kids preschool teachers, doing taxes, talking to seniors who want to be nice to them on the street.... stuff like that. He likes to be the breadwinner, the guy in charge. And that's okay. But it's almost impossible to do that in a country where you don't speak the language.

The reason why they move to Florida is purely financial. I don't think they're broke, but I don't think that the business is going that great either. They can't sell the house in Florida, and they rent an expensive flat in London. He doesn't want to live in Sweden. That leaves Florida.
This was wonderful, couldn't agree with you more.
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I'm one of those who think that since Leonore was in fact the spare of her generation when she was born, the king wanted her to be a HRH and have a place in the line of succession. That was just four years ago, but lots of things has changed. Oscar, Alexander and Gabriels' arrival means that the line of succession is quite well populated even without Leonore and her siblings.

I don't see why it would be a big problem if Leonore and her siblings were no longer in the line of succession. As far as I understand, they could still be "princes(s) xx, duke/duchess of xx".

I also think that Madeleine would love to live in Sweden, but that Chris has used his veto in that question. I do think that his inability - most likely caused by lack of interest - in learning swedish has something to do with it. You can get by very well with english here in Sweden, but if you're going to live here, swedish is pretty much a requirement. I don't think that Chris is the kind of guy who manages well when he has to ask people for help with everyday things that has do be done - reading information from the kids preschool teachers, doing taxes, talking to seniors who want to be nice to them on the street.... stuff like that. He likes to be the breadwinner, the guy in charge. And that's okay. But it's almost impossible to do that in a country where you don't speak the language.

The reason why they move to Florida is purely financial. I don't think they're broke, but I don't think that the business is going that great either. They can't sell the house in Florida, and they rent an expensive flat in London. He doesn't want to live in Sweden. That leaves Florida.


I agree. The man is his own man in his own castle. I suspect there will be slightly less physical press intrusion in Florida where the couple will be less recognised in the street than London and Sweden which is another factor. I don’t know if there is a Swedish-American community in that particular state? I doubt it.
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