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  #21  
Old 01-22-2020, 01:36 PM
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Israel's President Rivlin hosts world leaders in Jerusalem



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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
It is interesting that the King of Spain will be speaking, considering that AFAIK no Spanish people were murdered in Auschwitz. Perhaps a compromise candidate as the obvious choice -president Duda of Poland- was accused of anti-semitism in the autumn?

It seems that all Benelux countries will be represented by their monarchs and their prime ministers.
The title of King of Jerusalem has historically been linked to the Spanish Crown, leaders of Israel and Palestine have made many references to the title when they are in the presence of the King of Spain ... so Felipe's election is not so strange.

Spain has recognized that approximately 4000 Spaniards died in Auschwitz and other concentration camps. There are 7 Spaniards recognized as "Righteous Among the Nations", one of them Ángel Sanz Briz (whose nephew, also ambassador, works at the House of the King), Spain's ambassador to Hungary, saved the lives of 5.000 Jews by passing many of them as Sephardim.


King Felipe meets the president of the Federation of Jewish Communities of Spain, Isaac Querub

https://twitter.com/CasaReal/status/1220057434544312320

Since 2015 there is a law that allows all descendants of Spanish Jews for centuries to obtain Spanish nationality.

Spain’s king: ‘We’re here to fight hatred and lack of human empathy’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...human-empathy/
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  #22  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Israeli President Rivlin hosts dinner for some 40 world leaders in Jerusalem to mark the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp

During the dinner President Rivlin, the official host of the events, will speak. King Felipe VI of Spain will speak on behalf of the global leaders, and Professor Yehuda Bauer, Israel Prize laureate and Holocaust researcher, will deliver remarks.

https://ejpress.org/israeli-presiden...mination-camp/

Vice President Mike Pence represents the United States. Once again, Mr Trump didn't show up.


EDIT: I wonder why King Felipe VI was chosen to speak on behalf of the world leaders when Spain was a neutral country during World War II (and actually somewhat sympathetic to the Nazis under Franco) and the Jewish community in Spain itself was severely depleted by the expulsion of the Jews from Spain under the "Catholic Kings" (Ferdinand and Isabella) and the forced conversions during the Spanish Inquisition.


Of course, it is not his fault, but D. Felipe is a descendant in maternal line of Ferdinand and Isabella, isn't he ? In fact, that is how his Bourbon ancestors became Kings of Spain.
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  #23  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Vice President Mike Pence represents the United States. Once again, Mr Trump didn't show up.


EDIT: I wonder why King Felipe VI was chosen to speak on behalf of the world leaders when Spain was a neutral country during World War II (and actually somewhat sympathetic to the Nazis under Franco) and the Jewish community in Spain itself was severely depleted by the expulsion of the Jews from Spain under the "Catholic Kings" (Ferdinand and Isabella) in 1492 and the forced conversions during the Spanish Inquisition.
To my knowledge many of the Spanish citizens that perished in the Holocaust were political refugees that came to France at the end of the Spanish Civil War. As socialists and communists they were seen as undesirable by the Nazis and many of them ended up in the concentration camps once France was invaded.
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  #24  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post

Spain has recognized that approximately 4000 Spaniards died in Auschwitz and other concentration camps. There are 7 Spaniards recognized as "Righteous Among the Nations", one of them Ángel Sanz Briz (whose nephew, also ambassador, works at the House of the King), Spain's ambassador to Hungary, saved the lives of 5.000 Jews by passing many of them as Sephardim.
Thanks for the information, lula. The official website of Auschwitz does not list any Spanish people there, though I did see 200 'Other' nationalities mentioned. I thought most Spanish victims were murdered in Mauthausen. As JR says many of them were murdered for their political convictions. Although I believe Franco did make lists of Spanish Jews, which he intended to hand over to the Germans if he allied with them, which he fortunately did not do as the Germans were losing.

The King is an unusual choice but much preferable over many obvious candidates, which is perhaps why this choice was made. It would be highly inappropriate to have presidents with fascist sympathies / anti-semetic tendencies behind the microphone for such a commemoration.

Thanks for reminding us of Mr. Ángel Sanz Briz. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Between June and December 1944, he and his assistants issued fake Spanish papers to 5,200 Jews, saving them from deportation to concentration camps. he initially received authorization to provide papers to 200 Jews, and continued to enlarge this amount until he reached 5,200. In some cases, he acquired houses in Budapest at his own cost in order to provide shelter for the refugees, which made the difference between life and death for those Jews.
He convinced the Hungarian authorities that Spain, under the dictator Miguel Primo de Rivera had given Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492. Primo de Rivera had issued such a decree on December 20, 1924 but it had been canceled in 1930, a fact the Hungarian authorities were not aware of. Sanz Briz dutifully informed the Spanish Foreign Ministry of his actions, which were neither forbidden nor encouraged by Madrid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ángel_Sanz_Briz

Righteous among Nations indeed!
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  #25  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post

Of course, it is not his fault, but D. Felipe is a descendant in maternal line of Ferdinand and Isabella, isn't he ? In fact, that is how his Bourbon ancestors became Kings of Spain.

Why do you point at the maternal line? Spain has always had the possibility to have female monarchs. And the Habsburg before the Bourbon inherited through queen Juana, the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, who had married Philipp of Habsburg, their son Charles V. was both emperor of the Holy Roman Empire and of the kingdom of Spain.


The first Anne d'Autriche married Louis XIII. of FRance (the second Bourbon king) and her son Louis XIV. married Maria Teresa d'Autriche, so their descendants had a strong claim when the Spanish Habsburgs had no heirs and the Austrian Habsburg next in line became emperor Karl VI. and decided to leave the Spanish Crown to the Bourbons on getting lands in Italy in exchange. The name d'Autriche for Spanish infantas was to signal that they were of the Habsburg family, they never lived in Austria nor had the Spanish Habsburgs from Charles V. onwards any rights to Austrian lands.
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  #26  
Old 01-22-2020, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post

Thanks for reminding us of Mr. Ángel Sanz Briz. From Wikipedia:
His nephew Alfonso Sanz, is also an ambassador, and has worked at the Royal House for several years. He accompanies the King on this trip.

https://www.casareal.es/EN/AreaPrens...r.aspx?data=31

Photos

https://www.belgaimage.be/#/gallery/6840094

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  #27  
Old 01-22-2020, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
T

The King is an unusual choice but much preferable over many obvious candidates, which is perhaps why this choice was made. It would be highly inappropriate to have presidents with fascist sympathies / anti-semetic tendencies behind the microphone for such a commemoration.

The king of Spain might be an unusual choice but when you think that the homecountries of the most victims are now friends with the Federal Republic of Germany, it would be quite difficult to ask a person from these countries to speak in neutrality. Either the victims/their descendants or today's Germans with our lived culture of Remembering and Europeism could be hurt. So asking a king with a bloodline leading back to the removal of jews from Spain and the king defending democracy in parliament against a military putsch, king of a country that offers jews a safe home today and that was partly neutral, partly supporting fleeing jews, but yes, partly supporting the u-boot fleet of the Nazis in their harbours (but then, that's what US-American tankers did on the Atlantic as well) - IMHO he is a good choice as the son of a Spanish king and a Greek princess.
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  #28  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:28 PM
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The Arrival of King Felipe VI of Spain in Tel Aviv


Reception by the President of Isreal

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  #29  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The title of King of Jerusalem has historically been linked to the Spanish Crown, leaders of Israel and Palestine have made many references to the title when they are in the presence of the King of Spain ... so Felipe's election is not so strange.

True, but that title has nothing to do with the protection of the Jewish people. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was a medieval Christian kingdom established in Palestine by the Crusaders when they (temporarily) retook the Holy Land from the Muslim Arabs. Several military-religious orders like the modern Catholic Sovereign Order of Malta (whose Protestant counterparts are the various Orders of St John e.g. in the UK, Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands) trace their origin to that kingdom.


The historic record of Spain with respect to the Jewish people actually is not exactly the best considering that, as I argued before, the Spanish crown was responsible for one of the first mass persecution of Jews in the history of Western Europe in the late 15th and early 16th centuries. But, again, that is not the fault of modern Spaniards like King Felipe VI.
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:51 AM
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King Willem-Alexander starts the day early today with a visit to Yad Vashem, Jerusalem where the World Holocaust Forum takes place this afternoon. The King is given a tour of the exhibition with Dutch aspects


https://twitter.com/i/status/1220226283768090624
https://twitter.com/i/status/1220226283768090624
https://twitter.com/i/status/1220226283768090624


King Felipe holds a meeting with the President of Israel, Reuven Rivli, on the occasion of his attendance at the “International Leader’s Forum” in Jerusalem.


https://twitter.com/CasaReal/status/...520769/photo/2


And Prince Charles meet with the President of Israel

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO9CSuSW...name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO9Ck6yX...jpg&name=large


https://www.paimages.co.uk/headline/1423850
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  #31  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I am surprised to see HRH The Duchess of Cornwall attending this important celebration alone. Why isn't she accompanied by HRH The Prince of Wales ? And by a member of the British government such as the Rt Hon Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson MP, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom ?
Why shouldn´t she go alone? She´s "2nd lady of the country" and, being married for 16 years, not a newcomer in the RF anymore!
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  #32  
Old 01-23-2020, 03:11 AM
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Here's a gallery of King-Willem Alexander at Yad Vashem:



** anp gallery **


Later he visited the Beth Juliana care home. Several residents grew up in the Netherlands and experienced the Holocaust there.



** anp gallery **
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  #33  
Old 01-23-2020, 06:23 AM
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Spain's offered citizenship to the descendants of those expelled in 1492. I don't suppose a load of people intend emigrating to a country which their ancestors left over half a millennium ago, but it was an important gesture: they're making a big effort to try to heal some of the wrongs that were done in the past.

I'd like to have seen the King of Morocco there, because his grandfather refused to deport Jews to Vichy France and so saved a lot of lives, but I'm assuming that current international relations rule that out, which is a shame.
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  #34  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:36 AM
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Here's a gallery of King-Willem Alexander at Yad Vashem:



** anp gallery **


Later he visited the Beth Juliana care home. Several residents grew up in the Netherlands and experienced the Holocaust there.



** anp gallery **

Yes. the Jewish community in the Netherlands was deeply affected by the Holocaust and the Nazi occupation. And the Dutch Royal Family in exile behaved admirably during the war as a focus of resistance against the German occupation despite their own German family ties.



I am pretty sure that, in addition to the more pragmatic desire of securing/recovering their own Crown, the personal Christian faith of the Orange-Nassaus may have helped them to choose the righteous path during the war.
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  #35  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:46 AM
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I read Charles’ speech - Truly moving. As a Jewish person, I’m especially touched, but I think you only have to be human to feel Charles’ sincerity and to understand why those words needed to be spoken. I did not know that about his grandmother - she was a hero.
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  #36  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:48 AM
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I read Charles’ speech - Truly moving. As a Jewish person, I’m especially touched, but I think you only have to be human to feel Charles’ sincerity and to understand why those words needed to be spoken. I did not know that about his grandmother - she was a hero.
Princess Alice/Princess Andrew was a fascinating person. I read a very good biography of her a few years ago. I assume Prince Charles'll visit her grave on the Mount of Olives whilst he's in Jerusalem, like William did when he was there. I don't know whether she ever spoke about it to Charles and Anne, but I hope she did.
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  #37  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Princess Alice/Princess Andrew was a fascinating person. I read a very good biography of her a few years ago. I assume Prince Charles'll visit her grave on the Mount of Olives whilst he's in Jerusalem, like William did when he was there. I don't know whether she ever spoke about it to Charles and Anne, but I hope she did.

I think I may look to buy that book. I love reading about Royals - in addition to my fascination, I learn a great deal about history, which I love. It's a shame that Charles never really got to know his grandparents.
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  #38  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:25 PM
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Prince Charles attends an Auschwitz Memorial in Israel. There is no excuse for this behavior from Prince Charles in not shaking Vice President Mike Pence's hand. I don't accept that this is just an oversight on his part. He is seasoned at events like this and should not be political as a member of the Royal Family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ds-Israel.html
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  #39  
Old 01-23-2020, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Prince Charles attends an Auschwitz Memorial in Israel. There is no excuse for this behavior from Prince Charles in not shaking Vice President Mike Pence's hand. I don't accept that this is just an oversight on his part. He is seasoned at events like this and should not be political as a member of the Royal Family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ds-Israel.html
I think it was just an oversight or the fact that they had met and talked beforehand. Charles is well schooled in decorum and politeness. He wouldn't snub someone because of whatever his personal feelings.
In my opinion.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Prince Charles attends an Auschwitz Memorial in Israel. There is no excuse for this behavior from Prince Charles in not shaking Vice President Mike Pence's hand. I don't accept that this is just an oversight on his part. He is seasoned at events like this and should not be political as a member of the Royal Family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ds-Israel.html
I watched the ceremony live and thought Charles behaved very arrogantly when arriving. Vice President Pence wasn’t the only one snubbed by him. The President of Italy too received cold shoulder. Charles seemed also in a great hurry to get away from the President of Germany. I was truly surprised by his arrogant manner. He’s usually such a gentleman.
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