William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009

[Al_bina]

... To this end, I think it is important who William and Harry finally marry and the 'tradition' was prince/princesses or aristocrats is missed by many, the danger of marrying from a lesser class could hasten their demise. Ask most people in the street who Miss Sophie R-J is/was and they don't know, ask most people who Lady Diana was and the majority immediately know. ... [snipped and my bolding]

You are absolutely right once again. Although there is no urgent need to forge alliances between states through the marriage of Princes and Princesses, there are traditions to be respected and observed. Complete neglect of these traditions will hasten the demise of the nobility/royalty.

 

[Menarue]

Actually in England at least at the time of Prince Charles´s engagement, everyone knew of the Spencer family, Lady Diana would have been immediately recognized as a member of that family even if not physically recognized, they are an old aristocratic family closely related to the Churchills, who have been part of British history for so long that everyone who is a "native" knows who they are. Although I did hear someone with a British passport say, at the time, she must be a daughter of the Spencer from Marks & Spencer´s store people.
I think this whole "courtship" has been handled very badly, by Clarence House, the Press everyone. If he marries Kate Middleton I think they will be a very uninteresting couple, no substance, and the republic will be well on its way. If he doesn´t, after all this brouhaha he is going to be considered a cad, but he is royal, he will get away with it, if anyone is left crying it is going to be Kate.

 

[muriel]

Actually in England at least at the time of Prince Charles´s engagement, everyone knew of the Spencer family, Lady Diana would have been immediately recognized as a member of that family even if not physically recognized, they are an old aristocratic family closely related to the Churchills, who have been part of British history for so long that everyone who is a "native" knows who they are. Although I did hear someone with a British passport say, at the time, she must be a daughter of the Spencer from Marks & Spencer´s store people.
I think this whole "courtship" has been handled very badly, by Clarence House, the Press everyone. If he marries Kate Middleton I think they will be a very uninteresting couple, no substance, and the republic will be well on its way. If he doesn´t, after all this brouhaha he is going to be considered a cad, but he is royal, he will get away with it, if anyone is left crying it is going to be Kate.

so whats your point?

 

[Menarue]

But would they know who Lady Diana was if she hadn't married The Prince of Wales?

I was answering this post.....

 

[Skydragon]

Actually in England at least at the time of Prince Charles´s engagement, everyone knew of the Spencer family, Lady Diana would have been immediately recognized as a member of that family even if not physically recognized, they are an old aristocratic family closely related to the Churchills, who have been part of British history for so long that everyone who is a "native" knows who they are. Although I did hear someone with a British passport say, at the time, she must be a daughter of the Spencer from Marks & Spencer´s store people.

Even if they didn't know of them or their connection to our past, the LADY title ensured she stood out from the common people (Hoi Polloi). People don't seem to have any idea who Miss (or was it Ms) R-J was, had she been Lady Sophie whatever, it would have been different, instantly recognised by most people, IMO. The deference shown to anyone with a title exists even in todays society, especially in the small towns and villages, and when dealing with call centres!

I think this whole "courtship" has been handled very badly, by Clarence House, the Press everyone. If he marries Kate Middleton I think they will be a very uninteresting couple, no substance, and the republic will be well on its way. If he doesn´t, after all this brouhaha he is going to be considered a cad, but he is royal, he will get away with it, if anyone is left crying it is going to be Kate.

I have to agree on the whole, but I am not sure I want an interesting couple, purely a Royal couple, without any histrionics or dramas, a couple who remember they are not characters in a soap opera!.

 

[Menarue]

How true Sky, I hope I am not misquoting but isn´t it a Chinese blessing "May you live in uninteresting times"....?
I have seen it written exactly the opposite but I rather like the version above.

 

[windsorbrides1]

I'm thinking that William and Kate will announce their engagement sometime in February. I think the royals will want the international hoopla over the USA's new President Barak Obama to settle down in the press a bit, as well as the Israel stuff, so it doesn't overshadow a royal engagement announcement.

 

[Skydragon]

How true Sky, I hope I am not misquoting but isn´t it a Chinese blessing "May you live in uninteresting times"....?
I have seen it written exactly the opposite but I rather like the version above.

I think it is part of a Chinese curse, although nobody has been able to show any provenance for it. "May you live in interesting times, May you come to the attention of those in Authority, May you find what you are looking for". I too prefer your version!

 

[muriel]

I'm thinking that William and Kate will announce their engagement sometime in February. I think the royals will want the international hoopla over the USA's new President Barak Obama to settle down in the press a bit, as well as the Israel stuff, so it doesn't overshadow a royal engagement announcement.

With all due respect to our friends from across the pond, IMO the election of a US president (an event that occurs on schedule, every 4 years) is not really going to materially impact the timing of an announcement of the type by BP. The announcement will be made when the couple is ready to make it, though I have no doubt that BP will take into account certain domestic matters, including, for example, elections in the UK.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I want an interesting couple, purely a Royal couple, without any histrionics or dramas, a couple who remember they are not characters in a soap opera!.

Yes, PLEASE!

 

[firelight]

I think it is part of a Chinese curse, although nobody has been able to show any provenance for it. "May you live in interesting times, May you come to the attention of those in Authority, May you find what you are looking for". I too prefer your version!

Eh? I'm Chinese and have never heard this line before. I like it though.

but I am not sure I want an interesting couple, purely a Royal couple, without any histrionics or dramas, a couple who remember they are not characters in a soap opera!.

Amen to that! The Windsors should be for dignity. Let the East Enders take care of the drama.

 

[Warren]

The lengthy discussion of Chinese food and Portuguese leftovers has been removed.

 

[Denise_aus]

I can't agree with you Skydragon, I don't think the Danish Royal family has suffered from Frederick marrying a commoner and a lesser class (your words) Aussie to boot. If anything Mary seems to have given it a shot in the arm and brought it out of the torpor it was in. Maybe it is because Mary was raised in a substantially classless system where everyone is valuable. Charles did himself very little good here with his "who do they think they are" comment about a commoner working in his office. We know who we are.

 

[Skydragon]

Clearly I can't speak for the Danish people or their view on their monarchy and whether Mary is a good thing for them. Many thought, at the time, that Diana had given the British monarchy a boost and look how that turned out. You said yourself that you have a view, (which I interpret as you believe) monarchies have 'outlived their relevance', therefore it doesn't matter where Mary was born.

I did say "could hasten their demise" and I believe that is something that has been considered.

I would imagine the Royals and TPTB were torn, if they went through the rounds of inviting the eligible Lady A or Princess B to parties in the hopes they could forge an alliance, the public would be reminded of the semi arranged marriage of his father and the disaster that followed. Knowing William moves in the circles inhabited by the wealthy, there was very little danger of him becoming involved with anyone too unsuitable and because times have changed to some extent, they have so far allowed William to make his own choices, for good or bad, only time will tell.

On the other hand, if he now drops Kate, he will be seen as a cad and that also causes problems.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I think Mary as well as Maxima became princesses by chance - luck for them and their happily married husbands, but noone could have foreseen that Frederick would meet his bride at a party in Sydney and Willem-Alexander in New York, both girls not knowing who the guys were in the first place.

But William didn't even have the chance yet to meet a girl outside his London-circle because he never seems to travel abroad, he never seems to attend weddings or meet with other people than his own set. Okay, he has Catherine and it certainly wouldn't be nice to introduce him to other young ladies but if he doesn't really love Catherine then he himself would seek more opportunities, IMHO. But he doesn't seem to be on the look-out and probably the reason is that he is quite content with the young lady he already found, commoner or not.

As for the British public: William has some more years to show that he is worthy to be the next king and as long as he is mediocre or better, people will stick to their monarchy. It's only if he shows that he is truly impossible (or is shown like that with the help of his darling wife like his father was)the monarchy will end. IMHO, of course.

 

[firelight]

As for the British public: William has some more years to show that he is worthy to be the next king and as long as he is mediocre or better, people will stick to their monarchy. It's only if he shows that he is truly impossible (or is shown like that with the help of his darling wife like his father was)the monarchy will end. IMHO, of course.

I agree. The unfortunate thing is, I feel William has squandered a great deal of the goodwill he had in earlier years. He used to be the darling of society. Still is, in many ways, but now a lot of people just see him as another rich kid who spends too much time partying and too little time doing anything really substantial. I actually respected him more when he was younger.

But William didn't even have the chance yet to meet a girl outside his London-circle because he never seems to travel abroad, he never seems to attend weddings or meet with other people than his own set.

The BRF seems a bit insular in this sense, they tend to interact so little with other royal families, even around Europe. Just the impression I get. I think this works against them. Besides the lack of opportunity to meet potential royal mates, I do feel it reduces the royal mystique when you see the royals clubbing with commoners like any other person and not spending any time with other royals. In this day and age, I think that international royal relations (not necessarily romantic ones, even just friendship) would be helpful in boosting the image and profile of the royals.

And I don't think Kate will 'destroy' the BRF per se, but I do think she's part of a growing trend (of marrying/dating commoners) that will eventually make monarchies, royals and royal titles meaningless.

 

[Menarue]

That is exactly what I feel and I think it is a pity.

 

[Incas]

I wonder if the change in society opinions regarding to William has to do with his "fading" looks. There has been much references made about his hair loss in the last three years. Until his graduation from St Andrew's, there is little news on his private activities. The combination of youthful good looks and vague information allows people to project their hopes onto this young man. To paraphrase one of the courtiers, there's been too much sunshine on William's life. While familiarity hasn't reached the contemp stage, a lot of people don't really want to see how boring/normal a royal's life really is.

 

[Marino01]

I have to agree on the whole, but I am not sure I want an interesting couple, purely a Royal couple, without any histrionics or dramas, a couple who remember they are not characters in a soap opera!.

That they just love each other and want to be together. I think that would be great for the British Royal Family.

 

[Ella Kay]

That they just love each other and want to be together. I think that would be great for the British Royal Family.

That sort of stability could only be good for an institution like the monarchy. Figures like The Queen, who goes about her business and is dutiful and noncontroversial, seem to do better in the public opinion polls overall.

 

[zembla]

The new US Weekly has an article on William and Kate...they are claiming an engagement in February.

 

[wbenson]

If they ever get married, eventually some person making a wild guess will have gotten it right. I suppose this apparent shotgun approach to breaking the news will get someone some money.

 

[SarahMay]

Actually in England at least at the time of Prince Charles´s engagement...

I agree totally. I feel the relationship-friendship has been handled badly. I don't believe it is a courtship towards marriage for William, but rather a relationship William went into(as a young man basically a few years out of his late teens) he fell in love with her during University and is comfortable with. I never have seen any signs that he intends to take the serious step of marriage with her. It appears each time a rush of engagement stories arise, Pr. William never proposes.
If he wanted to marry Kate , I believe the Palace would have handled her more carefully and she would be in the Palace a few days a week getting coaching or advise. To my mind the Palace has not lifted a finger to protect her or help her image. She is now called Waity Katey on a regular basis in articles written about her in the UK press, but yet neither William or the Palace has taken steps to help aid her in dispelling the image.

I remember reading once a report by a royal reporter, which implied a courtier said Kate was viewed as girlfriend material. I am beginning to believe that, bascially because of William's lack of proposal after so many years, that "girlfriend " is as far as she will go.

 

[kpusa1981]

So many years? He could really have proposed to Kate as early as June 21, 2007 when turned 25.

 

[wbenson]

So many years? He could really have proposed to Kate as early as June 21, 2007 when turned 25.

He could have done it before then, too. He just required the Queen's permission. Even now it's unlikely he'd marry without it.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So many years? He could really have proposed to Kate as early as June 21, 2007 when turned 25.

The only thing that turning 25 changes is who has to approve the marriage.

Before 25 it has to be the monarch. After 25, if the monarch says no, he can apply to Parliament and wait one year. If neither house of parliament objects during that one year he can marry.

Either way William's marriage has to be approved - either by the Head of State or the Parliament.

 

[Denise_aus]

Oh well I guess I will know when I get an invitation to the wedding and a copy of the gift list from an "upper class" London store...I must polish up my tiara and get my thongs reheeled....more in hope than glory perhaps.

 

[Kezza]

I agree totally. I feel the relationship-friendship has been handled badly.

I agree with some of the things you say here. I agree in that if he was serious enough about her the palace would protect her more.

I notice through that the press and todays article in The Sun is an example of it, but she has gone from being portrayed as Bride to be by the press, to Mistress to be by them.

Duncan Lacombe makes her look like a dirty little secret in that article.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

Their relationship has been handled perfectly fine. They're not grabbing each other in public, which I greatly appreciate, and she keeps her head down. Always has. She's conducted herself very well, which is a testament to her upbringing.

 

[Menarue]

I wonder how anyone knows how she was brought up? Being brought up to be discreet is also very different to being brought up to be a Queen. As her brother and sister don´t seem to have the same discretion perhaps it isn´t her upbringing but something natural to her or acquired later with her proximity to people belonging to the royal circle after she met Prince William.
Although she doesn´t seem to have done anything outrageous there have been quite a few occasions when her family have let her down and I admit I was a little put off to see her giggling away with Chelsy at a ceremony in church, I believe it was the Peter Philips/Autumn Kelly wedding.
She is pretty, dresses well and is discreet, in fact that is exactly what Mrs Keppel was, and many other women who were close to a royal personage.