William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2005 - 2008

[Menarue]

Treading on dangerous ground I should think, if she has really said this, as if I remember rightly it was said at the time of their supposed "break up" that Prince Charles had said that if William didn´t intend marrying Kate (or Catherine) that it would be bad to string her along.
Before that there was what sounded like an ultimatum, but I must say I don´t believe it, that Kate Middleton was invited for Christmas with the Queen but refused (that part sounds a bit hard to believe but it could be so) saying that she would only attend as a member of the royal family. None of this is confirmed with links and it could only be gossip but this story was bandied about at the time of separation. Now this second story which sounds also very much like an ultimatum..... let us see what happens in the future. William, it is said, has also said that he doesn´t want to marry until he is 30....which sounds quite reasonable to me.

 

[Skydragon]

While the whole world is waiting for Prince William to pop the question to girlfriend Kate, the lady in question has warned the royal that she 'won't wait for him forever.'

Kate Middleton's warns Prince Wills: I won't wait forever - NewKerala News

Oh Dear, here we go again, friends of, close family friends, acquaintances, sources, anyone and everyone it seems they can think of, but where, oh where are the facts to back this story up!

 

[Menarue]

Oh Dear, here we go again, friends of, close family friends, acquaintances, sources, anyone and everyone it seems they can think of, but where, oh where are the facts to back this story up!

Perhaps we could write to Kate and ask her...... I for one, think it is utter nonsense.

 

[Monika_]

.....If you wish to make allegations about royals, particularly negative ones and most particularly allegations that could fall under the heading of defamation, we require actual sources to be stated, preferably with quotes, links, or both. Vague references to the international press aren't good enough. Many of our members are very well read and quite well placed to understand the difference between factual reporting by reputable sources and tabloid fabrications, regardless of their country of origin.

Elspeth, I agree and I would really like to see this reminder posted on ALL the Diana threads. SOME of the meanspiritedness goes beyond defamation and quite often qualifies as pure speculation. And if one disagrees, SOME will label you a wacko, etc. Just my observation. Thanks!

 

[Skydragon]

OMG, I thought I was on the wrong thread.... again!

and I would really like to see this reminder posted on ALL the Diana threads.

The truth is out there for all to see, (she is also on here, but that is a different matter)!

 

[Warren]

The truth is out there for all to see, (she is also on here, but that is a different matter)!

And we are very fortunate to have her.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Elspeth, I agree and I would really like to see this reminder posted on ALL the Diana threads. SOME of the meanspiritedness goes beyond defamation and quite often qualifies as pure speculation. And if one disagrees, SOME will label you a wacko, etc. Just my observation. Thanks!

Problem with Diana is that there are so many well-established sources who claim negative things about her, so it's not really difficult to back up close to anything with a source. Just take Bradford's: "She was beautiful, charming and witty but when her dark side was uppermost even her friends would admit that she could be a fiend." (Penguin edition, p. XVI.)

As for Catherine Middleton, we don't even have a reliable source which told that she is actually called "Kate" by somebody other than the media...

 

[Menarue]

As for Catherine Middleton, we don't even have a reliable source which told that she is actually called "Kate" by somebody other than the media...

Talking about names, I remember reading how annoyed Sarah Ferguson was about being called Fergie. I don´t blame her for that, with a lovely name like Sarah and the media ignoring it completely. I think right from the beginning it was a lack of respect. What happened later I am not counting, but as a young bride being called by all the newspapers Fergie was, to say the least, not nice.

 

[Duchess]

Problem with Diana is that there are so many well-established sources who claim negative things about her, so it's not really difficult to back up close to anything with a source. Just take Bradford's: "She was beautiful, charming and witty but when her dark side was uppermost even her friends would admit that she could be a fiend." (Penguin edition, p. XVI.)

As for Catherine Middleton, we don't even have a reliable source which told that she is actually called "Kate" by somebody other than the media...

well if all that's required as a source is quoting another publication then virtually anything and everything ever printed about anyone could be considered a source. even the daily mail could be considered a source, even the national enquirer. i'm guessing we should narrow our "sources" to reliable, named individuals??

 

[maggymay]

Regardless of where the information is coming from, and although I'm not a fan of Kate, she does have a right to know exactly where she stands after this length of time.

Her loyalty to William and ability to stay the distance does show in her astrology chart, [which most will probably dismiss instantly], but if he truly loves her it is now that he should be making a public declaration about how important she is to him, not via the newspapers, not even by engagement, but by both standing up together and spearheading a new charity or humanitarian cause which means a lot to both of them. They will then be seen as a "public" team. This will waylay gossip about her doing nothing, only waiting, and if they must be photographed together, at least it will make money and publicity for this charity or cause.
Use the media, the way the media has used them.
This way maybe the waiting game won't seem so important, and Kate will get the respect she deserves.

[But, damn there is always a "but" isn't there, I wouldn't want to be in her shoes if this waiting game doesn't change soon. It's going to be damaging more to Kate than William.]

 

[Ella Kay]

I think there are a couple of problems with expecting some sort of public gesture or declaration from William, apart from the public engagement announcement which the pair will be required to make if they do become engaged. One is royal protocol: though Kate may certainly take behind-the-scenes roles with some of William's charitable work, I can't see her publicly participating in that kind of role with him until they are engaged. Those charitable ventures are seen by many as integral to his royal role, and royal girlfriends don't have royal roles. The other issue is William's own aversion to the media and the press. From what I've heard from William himself in television interviews, he's been made extremely wary and private by the media's effects on his mother's life and his own. I can't ever see him willingly opening any more of his life to the public than he is already required to by his royal status.

I don't know about a waiting game either, or any need for Kate to be recognized in some greater way. We see them together at public events; that seems to be a pretty good recognition that she and William are together. I'd even venture to say that Kate's presence at the Garter ceremony and Peter Phillips's wedding do amount to some sort of recognition. I assume they'll announce an engagement officially when they're both good and ready to do so, and I'm often confused by those who seem to think that William holds all the cards in that decision.

I think that a lot of the buildup around Kate and William's relationship being affected by criticisms of her really does exist solely in the press and on the internet. William dislikes the media, and I can't see negative press about Kate convincing him that he needs to somehow vindicate her. He's been confronted by negative press about loved ones for his entire life, and I'm sure he's learned to ignore the nastier side of the media.

Bottom line: I think that, if William and Kate are as committed as they seem, she is probably getting the respect she deserves, and they'll speak about their relationship in public only if/when they become engaged officially.

 

[georgiea]

; Bottom line: I think that, if William and Kate are as committed as they seem, she is probably getting the respect she deserves, and they'll speak about their relationship in public only if/when they become engaged officially.

Totally agree with above statement.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

Absolutely agree.

 

[english]

Well, she might get respect from William, but does/will she get any respect from the public?

 

[Ella Kay]

Well, she might get respect from William, but does/will she get any respect from the public?

She doesn't really have a relationship with the public right now. The media has latched on to her and has published photos and stories about her, but so far, the only way Kate has entered the public eye is by choosing to date a royal prince.

I don't think it's fair to judge her until they are engaged and she starts participating in the public world of royalty. Right now she's a private citizen, albeit one who gets lots of scrutiny that she hasn't asked for, IMO.

And while there is a faction within the media and on the internet that chooses to speak in a negative and sometimes demeaning manner about her, I'm not sure those voices represent the "public" as a whole.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I completely agree with you, Ella Kay. Everything that's known about Kate is on the basis of images that we've seen of her. We're an image-oriented society and think that because we've seen a picture or a video, we know the truth about a situation or a person.

I don't think it's fair to judge her until they are engaged and she starts participating in the public world of royalty. Right now she's a private citizen, albeit one who gets lots of scrutiny that she hasn't asked for, IMO.

 

[maggymay]

One is royal protocol: though Kate may certainly take behind-the-scenes roles with some of William's charitable work, I can't see her publicly participating in that kind of role with him until they are engaged. Those charitable ventures are seen by many as integral to his royal role, and royal girlfriends don't have royal roles.

Chelsey has become involved in Harry's support for the soldiers at war, and helped raise money for them as well, so can't see why Kate can't do the same.
Also, they've got William busy next year getting involved in work to prepare him for kingship roles. How on earth can he fit in charitable ventures if he's busy elsewhere. Kate could be of real help here. Even in the publicity part of the charity, esp if overseas, like travelling over there and taking pictures that cover the beneficaries of that charity, afterall photography is her thing. It would show initiative and prove herself as a person in her own right, which she really needs to do, because when I'm wandering around different forums and sites, the image and support she gets on this site is not as widespread as you think.

I also think that William and Harry are going to break the mould where royal protocol is concerned. The fact that William will have to wait for many years before going on the throne, and with the Royal System not coping with 2 princes [Charles and William] waiting around, yet being seen to be doing something productive with their lives, royal protocol has to change or it will be "bye bye" Monarchy.

and I'm often confused by those who seem to think that William holds all the cards in that decision.

He does, and he has the whole royal system helping him as well. The only decision Kate can make at the moment is whether or not she will continue her relationship with William. It would make things so much easier if Diana was around. Could you please explain what power you think Kate has?

 

[wbenson]

He does, and he has the whole royal system helping him as well.

It takes two to have an engagement.

 

[Ella Kay]

The only decision Kate can make at the moment is whether or not she will continue her relationship with William. It would make things so much easier if Diana was around. Could you please explain what power you think Kate has?

Just what you said -- the power to decide the course of her relationship. How do we know that it's not Kate telling William that she wants to wait before they get engaged? People always assume it's the other way around, I think because of how the media portrays their relationship, with the whole "Waity Katie" business and all of the tabloid interviews with "royal sources" and "close friends."

And, just a personal opinion, I think things would be lots harder for William's future wife if Diana were around, in a way. It's sad that Kate or whoever William ends up marrying won't get to meet his mother, but can you imagine the press articles that would be written and the pressure that would come with Diana, the mother-in-law?

 

[kimebear]

True. Can you see the tabloids. "Diana hates Kate", "Diana: Jealous of Kate", "Diana sends Harry to Afghanistan to forget Chelsy", ugh.

 

[Ella Kay]

Chelsey has become involved in Harry's support for the soldiers at war, and helped raise money for them as well, so can't see why Kate can't do the same. Also, they've got William busy next year getting involved in work to prepare him for kingship roles. How on earth can he fit in charitable ventures if he's busy elsewhere. Kate could be of real help here. Even in the publicity part of the charity, esp if overseas, like travelling over there and taking pictures that cover the beneficaries of that charity, afterall photography is her thing.

What I meant by "behind-the-scenes" was that Kate could certainly do some charity work in the way that Chelsy has -- in a less public role than William or Harry have with their charitable interests. Kate's already worked with them that way in the past; she helped coordinate the Concert for Diana, if I remember correctly. But I'd also argue that William doesn't have a pet charity yet the way that Harry does with Sentebale -- maybe next year, when we see his royal work increase, he'll take on a bigger role with one organization. But Kate won't be able to work with charities the way that William does until she becomes a royal herself.

I imagine that, because someone somewhere is waiting to criticize everything Kate does, if she were to take on a noticeable role working for a charity, they'd accuse her of playing princess.

It would show initiative and prove herself as a person in her own right, which she really needs to do, because when I'm wandering around different forums and sites, the image and support she gets on this site is not as widespread as you think.

I'm perfectly aware of the negative internet cult that has sprung up around Kate, but I'll still argue that the posters on those sites and the tabloid journalists who write negative stories do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the public as a whole. I won't argue that I think everyone likes or should like Kate, but I'm loathe to consider the nasty and totally uncalled for barbs written by some on the internet and in the tabloids about Kate as representative of a public mood.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Right. It's rather sexist, actually.

Just what you said -- the power to decide the course of her relationship. How do we know that it's not Kate telling William that she wants to wait before they get engaged? People always assume it's the other way around, I think because of how the media portrays their relationship, with the whole "Waity Katie" business and all of the tabloid interviews with "royal sources" and "close friends."

 

[Ella Kay]

It really is, Mermaid. I'm not sure she is the one delaying an engagement, but it could be her or both of them, not necessarily William all by himself.

My pet theory about the reason that they've not gotten engaged yet (besides still being pretty young) is that they're not ready to start having children and being parents yet. I'd expect the Firm would want them -- to be medieval about it -- to "produce an heir" not long after getting married. Perhaps Kate isn't ready to be a mother yet, and that's part of the reason they've not announced an engagement.

 

[stellam]

My opinion is the Firm could be waiting for William to complete all his basic training in the various Armed Forces so that once he marries he can focus completely on his marriage and working full time for the Firm doing royal engagements etc.

Stellad

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

Perhaps, an engagement shall be announced after Prince William completes his work experience next year with the Diplomatic Corps.

It would be nice if his wedding was before the Olympics in London in 2012.

Cheers,
Emeralds and Opals

 

[Isana]

How do we know that it's not Kate telling William that she wants to wait before they get engaged? People always assume it's the other way around, I think because of how the media portrays their relationship, with the whole "Waity Katie" business and all of the tabloid interviews with "royal sources" and "close friends."

I agree with that. Many seem to forget that nothing we believe to know about William and Kate is for certain. All the stories about their relationship and feelings for each other etc. are nothing but tabloid fodder. Of course it is possible that William withholds a possible wedding, but it is just as possible that Kate is reluctant to marry into the Royal Family. After all a wedding between these two is more than just a public declaration of their love for each other, it'll change their whole life. As long as Kate is "just" the girlfriend she can vanish for a week or two at her parent's house and escape her crazy "public persona". As a royal she wouldn't have that opportunity anymore.

Chelsey has become involved in Harry's support for the soldiers at war, and helped raise money for them as well, so can't see why Kate can't do the same.

Excuse my ignorance but how has Chelsy helped with Harry's charity?

 

[muriel]

Perhaps, an engagement shall be announced after Prince William completes his work experience next year with the Diplomatic Corps.

It would be nice if his wedding was before the Olympics in London in 2012.

Cheers,
Emeralds and Opals

Assuming Will & Kate plan to marry, they need to work through the dates carefully. 2010 will be an election year, and I doubt if HM would like to have a wedding very close to an election so as not to take the focus away. So my guess is either no later than autumn 2009, or late summer / autumn 2010 afer the elections

 

[maggymay]

Excuse my ignorance but how has Chelsy helped with Harry's charity?

I posted a link to an article in Harry and Chelsy current events 2: May 2008 page 3. on 7/4/2008 - post #56.
Chelsy was said to be organising a series of nightclub evenings to raise money for the armed forces.

Also a photo of Chelsy [can't find now], which was posted onto this forum, showed her wearing a wrist band which someone here said represented either a charity ? re the soldiers injured from current wars or was one of Harry's other charities.

The other reason I like the idea of Kate getting involved in charities, even by just showing support for them, would earn her praise. It's something you can do which doesn't have set hours, and wouldn't reduce the time she got to spend with William whenever he gets time off. Getting stuck into helping with the events of organisations that are already set up, afterall she did get involved for a while with that boat race and got good media coverage and respect. Pity it wasn't able to be followed through.

 

[Villemann]

She doesn't really have a relationship with the public right now. The media has latched on to her and has published photos and stories about her, but so far, the only way Kate has entered the public eye is by choosing to date a royal prince.

I disagree. I think Kate very much has a relationship with the British public. I don't think she particularily enjoys it, but it's there!

I don't think it's fair to judge her until they are engaged and she starts participating in the public world of royalty. Right now she's a private citizen, albeit one who gets lots of scrutiny that she hasn't asked for, IMO.

How can we not judge her! We live in a 24/7 news cycle and Kate is out and about. She is like Madonna: Everything she does, says, eats, discards etc. etc. is news!

And while there is a faction within the media and on the internet that chooses to speak in a negative and sometimes demeaning manner about her, I'm not sure those voices represent the "public" as a whole.

I think Kate could get rid of much of the unfavourable press by getting a job!

 

[Mermaid1962]

If she gets a high-profile job in her field i.e. curating a museum or something, the place will be besieged by paps and gawkers and others will say that she got the job only because of her connections. If she gets an entry-level job, she'll be accused of just filling in time and getting the job to look busy (because she doesn't need the money). If she works or studies without publicity, then it's assumed that she doesn't do anything. From what I've seen of Kate, I can't imagine the girl sitting around all day watching t.v. and eating chocolate.

I disagree. I think Kate very much has a relationship with the British public. I don't think she particularily enjoys it, but it's there!



How can we not judge her! We live in a 24/7 news cycle and Kate is out and about. She is like Madonna: Everything she does, says, eats, discards etc. etc. is news!



I think Kate could get rid of much of the unfavourable press by getting a job!