The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2461  
Old 07-02-2016, 07:29 PM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,153
The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

Claudia Joseph's book on Kate which goes into the background of the her various sides of the family talks about Olive Lupton's three brothers dying in the Great War including Lionel on July 16, 1916 at the Somme.

The John Singer Sargent portrait of Albert Spencer in uniform dates from 1915. So he had to join earlier than 1917.

http://www.wikiart.org/en/john-singe...l-spencer-1915




Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2462  
Old 07-02-2016, 08:30 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,817
The story they knew each other and joined together seems a stretch. There were 51 British divisions involved in the battle, and even if they attended Trinity at the same time, no proof they knew each other more than in passing. Seems another attempt by reporters to find royal connections even if they are a huge stretch.

According to this Lupton was in the field artillery, and indeed died during the Somme (early) in July 1916 (only a few weeks into a battle that lasted into November).

Lieutenant Lionel Martineau Lupton (1892 - 1916) - Find A Grave Memorial

Albert was a captain in the first life guards (members of the household cavalry).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2463  
Old 07-02-2016, 09:46 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
The story they knew each other and joined together seems a stretch. There were 51 British divisions involved in the battle, and even if they attended Trinity at the same time, no proof they knew each other more than in passing. Seems another attempt by reporters to find royal connections even if they are a huge stretch.

According to this Lupton was in the field artillery, and indeed died during the Somme (early) in July 1916 (only a few weeks into a battle that lasted into November).

Lieutenant Lionel Martineau Lupton (1892 - 1916) - Find A Grave Memorial

Albert was a captain in the first life guards (members of the household cavalry).
To be fair, BBC talked alot about how it was very very common for classmates, footballclubs, choirs etc to sign up together and then get shipped of together. Hence why an areas whole "supply" of young men could be wiped out in one day...

It's just speculation on their part, but it's very possible. Or at least that they recognized each other. You know, aquantiances. They're not claiming they were best friends.
Reply With Quote
  #2464  
Old 07-03-2016, 04:24 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: saltzburg, Austria
Posts: 28
Was not aware that she - Olive Middleton - had blood cousins who were Baronesses - Baroness Airedale and Lady Bullock - 2nd cousins that she knew and worked with!


I thought all of her family were poor..... working class. I read the Daily Mail... silly me!

After all of these years of Kate being from a "middle-class family" - I knew that was wrong!!!! Palace PR to make her appear more like us simple commoners! Now we know the truth
Reply With Quote
  #2465  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:23 AM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,153
Olive is Michael Middleton's side of the family. His side was business type people with some money. It's Carole's side that was the coal miners from Durham working class side. Both her sides of the family were lower income working class.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #2466  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:33 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: saltzburg, Austria
Posts: 28
"Olive volunteered as a nurse with her relatives Baroness Airedale, left, and Lady Bullock, right

Her father Francis Martineau Lupton was a wealthy businessman, running the family merchant and cloth making operation, and was also an influential Liberal member of parliament.
Like many of the great families of Britain at the time, they lived the ultimate high life.
Olive's three brothers - Maurice, Lionel and Francis - reputedly drove around Cambridge in a Rolls Royce whilst studying their at Trinity College like their father before them." UK Daily Express June 2nd 2016


In Europe , a "business family" - as you say - does not have Baronesses as their cousins who work with them. A "business family" would NOT have grown up at the huge manor house and have all the land and money that Olive Middleton grew up in.

The photo of Baroness Airedale - Olive Middleton's cousin and neighbour - is photographed with a coronet on her head - to attend George V's coronation.

Yes Carole Middleton's family were working class. Michael Middleton's titled, wealthy family were what we call in the UK and Europe - landed gentry.

That is what this story has shown. and similar stories were in the UK Telegraph 2 years ago.

Lovely to talk to you
Reply With Quote
  #2467  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:43 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
In the lead up to the royal wedding, depending on the newspaper, you got two completely different narratives.

The right-wing DM portrayed Kate as a someone William saved from a life of a poor street urchin, while left-wing papers like the Guardian laughed at the idea Kate was just a 'regular' girl.

Polly Toynbee in particular said there aren't many 'regular' girls that have a public school education, whose parents are millionaires and live such a privileged life.

This is the reality of Britain and the remnants of the class system, either Kate is too posh for some, or she's not posh enough for others.

Mike Middleton's family is above reproach and that's the reason he's hardly ever mentioned in tabloids. It's Carole and her 'social climbing' that really gets DM readers worked up lol.
Reply With Quote
  #2468  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:55 AM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,153
The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

How is Michael side titled? If you have relatives that marry into the aristocracy? If my cousin married a baron, it doesn't make me a baron.

It's isn't a secret or a pr move from the palace. The press always focuses on Carole and her roots. KP isn't hiding the Middleton's side. The trip to Bletchley Park talked about her Grandmother Valerie's code breaking work. Kate and William met one of Kate's cousins when they visited Cambridge University and it was reported at the time.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #2469  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:14 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,750
When all is said and done, blood is just that. Blood. Of course there's a lot of emphasis on the genetics and whom one descended from and what family is older and/or more titled but, to me, as far as a person's character, upbringing, and education should be looked at with only the person in question and not that somewhere back in the middle ages that person had an ancestor that singlehandedly defended the King to the death.

For me, the most interesting story that came out at the time of the wedding was it became known that Peter Middleton, Kate's grandfather, and Prince Philip spent time together while on a tour of South America in 1962.
Attached Images
 
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #2470  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:01 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: saltzburg, Austria
Posts: 28
Michael Middleton's family is certainly titled.


His great great uncle was Sir Charles Lupton of Leeds (who did NOT marry to get his title)


His second cousin (2r) was Lady Bullock, nee Lupton of Leeds


His first cousin (3r) was Baroness von Schunck, nee Lupton (of Leeds) whose daughter was Baroness Airedale of Leeds


THESE TWO LADIES WERE INVITED TO GEORGE V's CORONATION!!!


NO SURPRISES that Michael's father was a co-pilot with Prince Philip.


I no longer believe that Kate is from a simple family who made money. That was just rubbish sold to us by the tabloids. As it says in the Express article today - Olive Middleton was from a "great" "eminent" "aristocratic" family - and extraordinarily rich.


THAT is how Kate was at private school when aged 4 - BEFORE Party Pieces even started.
Reply With Quote
  #2471  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:07 AM
JessRulz's Avatar
Administrator
Blog Editor
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,688


There is no need to shout.

While members of Michael Middleton's family in past generations were titled (some of whom were titled because they married into titled families), the branch of the family that Michael comes from was not.

It is therefore a great stretch IMO to say the Middletons were landed gentry (a point that was made several times when you first made statements of the like back in 2012).
__________________
**TRF Rules and FAQ**
Reply With Quote
  #2472  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:12 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: saltzburg, Austria
Posts: 28
Michael Middleton's grandmother was an aristocrat as the Express has revealed.

Please don't think I was shouting!

I guess I was fooled in the early days with talk form the Daily Mail about how "Commoner Kate" would never cope with life as a royal. When you see the superb estates Michael Middleton's grandmother grew up in and the titled members of the family and the wealth.....

Kate was indeed BORN to be a POSH royal and probably a POSH Queen too!!

I guess I am jealous!!
Reply With Quote
  #2473  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:15 AM
miche's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 811
The tabloids weren't trying to sell Kate has a simple girl, they were trying to shame Carole from being descendant of miners, being born or living in council house but yet not knowing her place in society by having the nerve to have a successful business. They never went after Michael side of the family.
Reply With Quote
  #2474  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:27 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: saltzburg, Austria
Posts: 28
It is great to have these chats again.

I recall now that some people on this site seem to be determined to categorize the Middleton family as "normal and just-like-us". ...like the early UK Daily Mail reports described them.

We have discovered in more recent years that Michael Middleton's family are EXACTLY what the UK Telegraph and UK Daily Express have revealed them to be. wealthy snobs with generations that went to Trinity College, magnificent country estates and MONEY.

Kate's great great uncle - the brother of Olive Middleton of course! - was even a chum with Princess Diana's grandad. Read about it on the UK Daily express web-site this morning!

In short, I agree even MORE with reference in the October 2013 edition of Majesty magazine (yes I have a copy!!) - that Olive Middleton's family were "landed Gentry" and that she was an "heiress" as Joe described her.

I will not be arguing with Jo Little - the editor of Majesty either - nor the other more truthful broadsheet editors. Cheers again
Reply With Quote
  #2475  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:32 AM
Frelinghighness's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New England, United States
Posts: 5,811
How sad is it that all three brothers were killed in the war, like many families I assume. What a senseless waste
Reply With Quote
  #2476  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:39 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: saltzburg, Austria
Posts: 28
"Both her sides (Mum and Dad) of the (Kate's) family were lower income working class".




This is what "Queen Camilla" told me this morning.


This is just NOT TRUE.


I almost give up. Thank God the other commentators are more realistic. Can I ask also WHY "Skippyboo" started up a thread doubting that Mike Middleton's grt. uncle would NOT know Princess Diana's grandad at Cambridge - in the same college. Of course these 2 posh young men would know each other.


They joined up together!

The article states that the Lupton fellow "drove around Cambridge in a Rolls Royce".
as the journalist says, they were arisocrats. We must accept this.
Reply With Quote
  #2477  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:53 AM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 4,153
The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Olive is Michael Middleton's side of the family. His side was business type people with some money. It's Carole's side that was the coal miners from Durham working class side. Both her sides of the family were lower income working class.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

That's my earlier post since I am being slandered. Both sides of her family being lower income working class is referring to Carole Middleton. Not Kate.

I didn't even mention anything whether Lionel Lupton knew Albert Spencer.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #2478  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:08 AM
miche's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 811
A college of 300 students (Trinity) within a bigger University of thousands (Cambridge), how are you so sure that they knew each other?
Reply With Quote
  #2479  
Old 07-03-2016, 11:14 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sacramento, United States
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyferen View Post
It is great to have these chats again.

I recall now that some people on this site seem to be determined to categorize the Middleton family as "normal and just-like-us". ...like the early UK Daily Mail reports described them.

We have discovered in more recent years that Michael Middleton's family are EXACTLY what the UK Telegraph and UK Daily Express have revealed them to be. wealthy snobs with generations that went to Trinity College, magnificent country estates and MONEY.

Kate's great great uncle - the brother of Olive Middleton of course! - was even a chum with Princess Diana's grandad. Read about it on the UK Daily express web-site this morning!

In short, I agree even MORE with reference in the October 2013 edition of Majesty magazine (yes I have a copy!!) - that Olive Middleton's family were "landed Gentry" and that she was an "heiress" as Joe described her.

I will not be arguing with Jo Little - the editor of Majesty either - nor the other more truthful broadsheet editors. Cheers again
So what is your point? You seem to be as bad about Michael Middleton as the DM is about Carole. Suck it up buttercup
Reply With Quote
  #2480  
Old 07-03-2016, 12:16 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,750
Y'know, all this sins of the father and pedigree debates which should really take place on websites that have extensive debates, papers and proof of the bloodlines of dogs makes me wonder just what would have happened should Kate's lineage be like mine is and started with her as she would have been adopted by the Middletons with her birth records sealed for all eternity?

The Middleton family, in the here and the now, really haven't put one foot wrong since they've come to the attention of the public by having a daughter that met, married and are now grandparents, aunts and uncle of the heir and the spare to the royal throne of the UK.

Sometimes I think the tabloids and people just can't get through life without finding something wrong about someone else. Go figure.
__________________

__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
duchess of cambridge, kate, kate middleton, middleton family, prince william, wealth


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
american archie mountbatten-windsor asian baby names birth britannia british british royal family buckingham palace camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles china chinese commonwealth countries coronation crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex elizabeth ii family tree fashion and style gemstones genetics george vi gustaf vi adolf harry and meghan henry viii highgrove history hypothetical monarchs japan history jewellery king edward vii king juan carlos książ castle liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchy mongolia mountbatten names plantinum jubilee politics portugal prince harry princess eugenie queen consort queen louise queen victoria royalty of taiwan st edward sussex swedish queen thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states wales welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:33 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×