The Birth of HRH Prince Louis of Cambridge: April 23, 2018

[Iluvbertie]

Sorry but I have heard Louis pronounced the French way many times in the US.

Michael should have been a name if not Carole or Caroline. And it wouldn't be a problem if Michael was a second name but Pippa used it as a first name. It's really quite sad that her dad has mostly been forgotten.

When I say WnK were forced to name their kids certain ways I mean no one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names.

May I ask how you know they were 'forced' to name their kids certain ways or that 'no-one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names?'

I am curious as to your source for this information.

Personally I believe they chose names they liked and who honoured members of their own family. Rob Jobson even confirmed on Australian TV this morning, saying he had it from KP, that Louis is to honour Louis Mountbatten and as a corollary both Philip and Charles who were very close to him.

They have chosen names that link to a variety of people and most importantly names they like.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1953/apr/15/royal-style-and-title

Wow really? Great history lesson there. I thought the Scottish/English way was having 2 numbers or maybe that just occurred with James I/VI. Personally the only name I have heard is avoided is John.

 

[Gawin]

Wow really? Great history lesson there. I thought the Scottish/English way was having 2 numbers or maybe that just occurred with James I/VI. Personally the only name I have heard is avoided is John.

Yes, you're right, prior to the Acts of Union in 1707 (which united England and Scotland into one kingdom), the monarchs used two regnal numbers, one for England and another for Scotland.

James I/VI
Charles I (same number for both kingdoms)
Charles II (same number for both kingdoms)
James II/VII
William III/II
Mary II (same number for both kingdoms)
Anne

After 1707 they used whichever regnal number was higher.

 

[sophie25]

Charlotte and Carole are derivatives of the same name, with the male equivalent being Charles.

The difference is that Charlotte is a very Royal name and Carole is not. I am frankly relieved that the Cambridges passed it up.

Pippa or James can honor their mother if they choose to do so.

Diana is also not a traditional 'royal' name.

Maybe Pippa wants to call her eventual son Michael?

Oh please, both the Queen and Princess Margaret honored their father by using the name Albert for their sons, it's not an exclusive situation.

 

[Osipi]

Diana was also not born royal but into an aristocratic family. She married into the royal House of Windsor and gave birth to a future King. Royal names have to start somewhere.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Edward is a regnal name and that didn't stop the Queen using it for her third son nor did she stop the Earl of St Andrews using it for his son, Lord Downpatrick.

George is a regnal name but the Duke of Kent used it for his son.

James is also the name of Princess Alexandra's son - so why didn't she overrule Alexandra's use of the name?

There can be multiple people in the family with the same name as seen in the BRF:

Charles - 2 (Charles and Viscount Linley)
Edward - 3 (Edward and the Duke of Kent and Lord Downpatrick - the Duke of Kent's grandson and at the time of Edward's birth 3 as the Duke of Windsor was still alive and so three Prince Edward's)
Marina - 2 granddaughter of the Duke of Kent (her second name is Charlotte by the way) and the daughter of Princess Alexandra
Louis - 2 - the new Prince and the youngest child of Lord Nicholas Windsor

Very true, I don't know what is wrong with Edward naming his son James. The family has a list of usable names that are smaller than most families so why would anyone be calling dibs on names their uncle want to use?

Yes, you're right, prior to the Acts of Union in 1707 (which united England and Scotland into one kingdom), the monarchs used two regnal numbers, one for England and another for Scotland.

James I/VI
Charles I (same number for both kingdoms)
Charles II (same number for both kingdoms)
James II/VII
William III/II
Mary II (same number for both kingdoms)
Anne

After 1707 they used whichever regnal number was higher.

Thank you I didn't know things changed in 1707, you are very knowledgeable and thank you for sharing that with me. I personally like the two numbers but no one cares what I like. [emoji16]

Oh please, both the Queen and Princess Margaret honored their father by using the name Albert for their sons, it's not an exclusive situation.

Some people are just trying for any excuse with this situation. Plus even if you don't like a name you can put it on the birth certificate and never use it again.

 

[Frideswide]

May I ask how you know they were 'forced' to name their kids certain ways or that 'no-one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names?'

I am curious as to your source for this information.

I have asked @XeniaCasaraghi the same question, but she appears to be unwilling or unable to answer.

 

[Lady Nimue]

BTW it may be that they call the little nipper a completely different name in the home, like 'Jack'.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

In Lousiana perhaps (where there is a French-speaking minority), or in Maine (that borders Quebec) ? Just kidding, but I guess no one pronounces for example St. Louis or Louis Armstrong the French way. Sometimes you get "Lewis" as in English or, more rarely, "Louie" with a silent 's', but not "Looee" with strong stress on the final syllable as in French.

In Ohio, Louis is usually pronounced "Lou-ee"

Louis Armstrong is also pronounced "Lou-ee."

 

[muriel]

I think that Louis, pronounced as in French, sounds pedantic (at least in North America) and runs against the image of the "cool, fun younger brother" that Harry and Andrew (in his old days) had.

The good thing is that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge don't need to really bother with how the American audience might perceive their choice of name for one of their children.

From a London / UK perspective, Louis is a not-uncommon name, pronounced Loo-ee. Don't see many her struggle with the name, or see it as particularly French either.

 

[Countessmeout]

Mbruno wasn't suggesting the name was hard to pronounce, or uncommon in the UK. Or too French.

He was suggesting it was 'pedantic' aka formal/boring. It seems a bit stuffy compared to Harry.

Charles was the stiff formal name of the heir, Andrew a bit more casual (Andy). William was the more formal name of the heir, Harry got a permanent nickname publically from birth.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The good thing is that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge don't need to really bother with how the American audience might perceive their choice of name for one of their children.

From a London / UK perspective, Louis is a not-uncommon name, pronounced Loo-ee. Don't see many her struggle with the name, or see it as particularly French either.

And not to forget that the Crown has a large French-speaking community in the realms. I am happy that French is not seen as something absolutely to avoid.

 

[Frideswide]

Mbruno wasn't suggesting the name was hard to pronounce, or uncommon in the UK. Or too French.

He was suggesting it was 'pedantic' aka formal/boring. It seems a bit stuffy compared to Harry.

Charles was the stiff formal name of the heir, Andrew a bit more casual (Andy). William was the more formal name of the heir, Harry got a permanent nickname publically from birth.

No, he was suggesting that using the French pronunciation was pedantic, not the name. And it emerged that he meant authentic French ("Lwee") rather than just "Lou-ee".

Your perception of the name is your own, of course, but I doubt many Britons would think Louis formal or stuffy. It's enjoyed a recent spell of popularity here so has a youthful image just now.

 

[wyevale]

I personally know two teenagers [aged 13 and 15 respectively] named Louis, so the name has been fairly popular for some time.

 

[Denville]

It certainly seemed popular around I'd say early 90s... and It seems as if Will and K like the name...

 

[Nico]

No, he was suggesting that using the French pronunciation was pedantic, not the name. And it emerged that he meant authentic French ("Lwee") rather than just "Lou-ee"

Frankly, from a French perspective, it's exactly the same (and pronunciated the same way)...
Some people are reading too much into this ...

 

[Frideswide]

Frankly, from a French perspective, it's exactly the same (and pronunciated the same way)...

Merci!

I must admit that I couldn't hear any difference in the way it was spoken by the three people in the wedding vow clip.

 

[Curbside]

I couldn't tell the difference either.

 

[PetticoatLane]

Did Jobson claim that he heard from KP the name was chosen as a tribute to Earl Mountbatten?

 

[Frideswide]

In this day and age I am sure the Royals choose first and foremost names that they LIKE. If it also comprises a compliment to a family member past or present, that'll be a bonus.

 

[Somebody]

It's a bit suspisious though that they only like royal names... I am sure they won't give a child a name they don't like but I don't think likeability is the only consideration.

 

[Rudolph]

Let’s say Kate’s dad’s name was Bryan. Are we going to see a Prince Bryan?

George for a future king is perfect, Charlotte is regal as a daughter’s name, it’s also one of Pippa’s names

Louis is a popular name with very strong connections to Philip’s side of the family.

 

[Osipi]

Its just as valid to suppose that the Cambridge kids grew very fond of an obscure cartoon character called "Louie the Lobster" and that was part of the reason they named the new sibling Louis.

We'll never know the whys and wherefores of the name in total or what considerations they even had as alternate names.

 

[Frideswide]

It's a bit suspisious though that they only like royal names... I am sure they won't give a child a name they don't like but I don't think likeability is the only consideration.

I didn't say it was. But like many ordinary British citizens, they seem to like names that are both traditional and currently fashionable. The only name so far that isn't really fashionable is Diana, and William's mother's early death guaranteed its inclusion.

BTW I've always thought it strange that Diana never became a popular name after she came to prominence. It's a lovely name, classic and timeless, but has never really been trendy.

 

[wyevale]

strange that Diana never became a popular name

You're right, but it had never occurred to me before, but I know of only one Diana, and she is 83 years old !

 

[Sunnystar]

You're right, but it had never occurred to me before, but I know of only one Diana, and she is 83 years old !

I know of one Diana - she's 19 years old. Not sure if her parents named her for the late Princess of Wales or if it is a family name or just because they liked it.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Diana is also not a traditional 'royal' name.

No, but it has a very strong Spencer Churchill aristocratic affiliation, thus it made perfect sense for William and Kate to choose it.

 

[Lady Nimue]

You're right, but it had never occurred to me before, but I know of only one Diana, and she is 83 years old !

So much baggage with that form of the name because of Princess Diana. I know no Diana's, but I do know Diane's.

Interestingly, I actually know at least three Camilla's, and one Camille.

 

[Countessmeout]

No, he was suggesting that using the French pronunciation was pedantic, not the name. And it emerged that he meant authentic French ("Lwee") rather than just "Lou-ee".

Your perception of the name is your own, of course, but I doubt many Britons would think Louis formal or stuffy. It's enjoyed a recent spell of popularity here so has a youthful image just now.

Small correction......its not my opinion of the name Never said it was. I actually like the name Louis (though not as much a fan of it as a 1st name for a British prince).

It was my interpretation of what Mbruno said. Of his opinion of the name When people use the term 'pedantic' for name, it means old fashioned/stuffy/over learned and so on.

Mbruno was comparing the names of three generations of 2nd sons (Andrew, Harry, Louis). Not the pronunciation of the names.

As for your names having come back into popularity...yes in response to the years of people naming kids Jayden, Aiden, Payton, Frayden, Kayden, and every other variation, going back to 'classic' names has become popular.

Let’s say Kate’s dad’s name was Bryan. Are we going to see a Prince Bryan?

George for a future king is perfect, Charlotte is regal as a daughter’s name, it’s also one of Pippa’s names

Louis is a popular name with very strong connections to Philip’s side of the family.

No one suggested that they had to use it as a first name. No, if her father was named Brian, that wouldn't have made much of a first name for a future king. But these kids do have three names, and Brian, or Michael, would have made a lovely middle name.

 

[Mbruno]

Frankly, from a French perspective, it's exactly the same (and pronunciated the same way)...
Some people are reading too much into this ...

No it is not. Again, listen to "Louie" (spelled like that) on Google Translator using English as a source language, and to "Louis" using French as source language. In the French pronunciaton, the stress is in the last syllable and the final vowel is longer.

My undestanding is that the prince will be known as "Louie" in the British English pronunciation.

PS: If you listen to "Louis" on Google Translator using English as a source language, you will get the American pronunciation "Lewis".