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  #621  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Frideswide View Post
I think they would avoid it like the plague. James brings up too many difficulties with regnal number (it differs between England/Wales and Scotland) and the Jacobite pretenders.

As for "needed" for the direct line - there are plenty of names that are dignified enough for a monarch. I do not believe that there is any rule that the name of an heir must have a regnal precedent. If anyone knows different, I would be most interested to see proof of it.

In any case there would be no issue with more than one person in the family having the same forename.

ETA: That said, with Kate having a brother and now also a brother-in-law called James, that might be more than enough of them for now!
The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...tyle-and-title
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  #622  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:32 PM
kathia_sophia's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenJen View Post



It's pronounced "Lewey" - here are W&K wedding vows.
Now that I hear a second time, yes it's true. William says "Lewey" and Catherine says "Looee". I like "Lewey" better than the french "Looee". But I still perfer without the silent "S". Here in Portugal we say the "S", so it's gonna be difficult to get used to "Louie".
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  #623  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...tyle-and-title
That is interesting. We actually had a similar discussion recently in one of the Spanish forums. Typically, the kings of unified Spain follow the numbering of the old kings of Castile. Apparently, the issue first arose with Ferdinand VI whose last predecessor with the same name was Ferdinand II of Aragon (the Catholic King), but Ferdinand V of Castile (by his marriage to Queen Isabella I). According to the Spanish experts on the forum, they picked the highest numeral.

The same rule was applied apparently to Alfonso XII (the last Aragonese monarch with that name was Alfonso V, I guess).
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  #624  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I agree with those who have said they don't understand the fuss over Louis being one of George's middle names; due to the associations with Louis Mountbatten. He was clearly a well loved cousin as William, George and now the baby prince have all been named after him (and Lord Nicholas Windsor has a son named Louis as well, who is a year older than Charlotte). And, as others have mentioned, it's common for royals to repeat names.

On another note; there are large stocks of commemorative memorabilia in some of the supermarkets. I brought myself a commemorative biscuit tin to complete my collection (starting from a coronation plate from George V's era which I inherited from my grandmother, who was a fellow royalty enthusiast).
I agree. Louis was also the name of Prince Philip's maternal grandfather Prince Louis of Battenberg (later Marquess of Milford Haven) and his great-grandfather Louis (Ludwig) IV, Grand Duke of Hesse. It's a nice way to honor Philip and his mother's family, who raised him after his mother was committed to a sanatorium and his father abdicated his role as a husband and father.
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  #625  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
Now that I hear a second time, yes it's true. William says "Lewey" and Catherine says "Looee". I like "Lewey" better than the french "Looee".
Another evidence that Kate is "posher" than William ! Or she knows French better.
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  #626  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...tyle-and-title
Well, exactly. Many Scots are very sensitive about such matters.

The "Old Pretender", son of the deposed James II, was also a James so that adds to the controversy over regnal numbers. It's a can of worms that is probably best not opened again.
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  #627  
Old 04-28-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Another evidence that Kate is "posher" than William ! Or she knows French better.
She at least knows some French because she took it in school. Sometimes William, Harry and Zara dumb down their accents while Kate uses a cut glass ‘Home Counties clip’ when speaking. More along the lines of Beatrice and Eugenie.
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  #628  
Old 04-28-2018, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Another evidence that Kate is "posher" than William ! Or she knows French better.
I seem to remember last year, when the couple toured France, that one of the people that spoke to the couple told reporters that Catherine had better French pronunciation than William.
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  #629  
Old 04-28-2018, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frideswide View Post
Well, exactly. Many Scots are very sensitive about such matters.

The "Old Pretender", son of the deposed James II, was also a James so that adds to the controversy over regnal numbers. It's a can of worms that is probably best not opened again.
But Prince Charles will be Charles III despite the fact that the Young Pretender also claimed to be Charles III.

So unless he chooses another name as King the can of worms will be opened again.
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  #630  
Old 04-28-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Well, I've always thought the Queen should have overruled Edward, when he named his son James.

James is a regnal name, which might be needed for the direct line.

I think the Cambridges might have chosen that, if it hadn't already been in use.
Edward is a regnal name and that didn't stop the Queen using it for her third son nor did she stop the Earl of St Andrews using it for his son, Lord Downpatrick.

George is a regnal name but the Duke of Kent used it for his son.

James is also the name of Princess Alexandra's son - so why didn't she overrule Alexandra's use of the name?

There can be multiple people in the family with the same name as seen in the BRF:

Charles - 2 (Charles and Viscount Linley)
Edward - 3 (Edward and the Duke of Kent and Lord Downpatrick - the Duke of Kent's grandson and at the time of Edward's birth 3 as the Duke of Windsor was still alive and so three Prince Edward's)
Marina - 2 granddaughter of the Duke of Kent (her second name is Charlotte by the way) and the daughter of Princess Alexandra
Louis - 2 - the new Prince and the youngest child of Lord Nicholas Windsor
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  #631  
Old 04-28-2018, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Sorry but I have heard Louis pronounced the French way many times in the US.

Michael should have been a name if not Carole or Caroline. And it wouldn't be a problem if Michael was a second name but Pippa used it as a first name. It's really quite sad that her dad has mostly been forgotten.

When I say WnK were forced to name their kids certain ways I mean no one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names.
May I ask how you know they were 'forced' to name their kids certain ways or that 'no-one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names?'

I am curious as to your source for this information.

Personally I believe they chose names they liked and who honoured members of their own family. Rob Jobson even confirmed on Australian TV this morning, saying he had it from KP, that Louis is to honour Louis Mountbatten and as a corollary both Philip and Charles who were very close to him.

They have chosen names that link to a variety of people and most importantly names they like.
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  #632  
Old 04-28-2018, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...tyle-and-title
Wow really? Great history lesson there. I thought the Scottish/English way was having 2 numbers or maybe that just occurred with James I/VI. Personally the only name I have heard is avoided is John.
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  #633  
Old 04-28-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Wow really? Great history lesson there. I thought the Scottish/English way was having 2 numbers or maybe that just occurred with James I/VI. Personally the only name I have heard is avoided is John.
Yes, you're right, prior to the Acts of Union in 1707 (which united England and Scotland into one kingdom), the monarchs used two regnal numbers, one for England and another for Scotland.

James I/VI
Charles I (same number for both kingdoms)
Charles II (same number for both kingdoms)
James II/VII
William III/II
Mary II (same number for both kingdoms)
Anne

After 1707 they used whichever regnal number was higher.
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  #634  
Old 04-28-2018, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Charlotte and Carole are derivatives of the same name, with the male equivalent being Charles.

The difference is that Charlotte is a very Royal name and Carole is not. I am frankly relieved that the Cambridges passed it up.

Pippa or James can honor their mother if they choose to do so.
Diana is also not a traditional 'royal' name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Maybe Pippa wants to call her eventual son Michael?
Oh please, both the Queen and Princess Margaret honored their father by using the name Albert for their sons, it's not an exclusive situation.
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  #635  
Old 04-28-2018, 08:34 PM
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Diana was also not born royal but into an aristocratic family. She married into the royal House of Windsor and gave birth to a future King. Royal names have to start somewhere.
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  #636  
Old 04-28-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Edward is a regnal name and that didn't stop the Queen using it for her third son nor did she stop the Earl of St Andrews using it for his son, Lord Downpatrick.

George is a regnal name but the Duke of Kent used it for his son.

James is also the name of Princess Alexandra's son - so why didn't she overrule Alexandra's use of the name?

There can be multiple people in the family with the same name as seen in the BRF:

Charles - 2 (Charles and Viscount Linley)
Edward - 3 (Edward and the Duke of Kent and Lord Downpatrick - the Duke of Kent's grandson and at the time of Edward's birth 3 as the Duke of Windsor was still alive and so three Prince Edward's)
Marina - 2 granddaughter of the Duke of Kent (her second name is Charlotte by the way) and the daughter of Princess Alexandra
Louis - 2 - the new Prince and the youngest child of Lord Nicholas Windsor
Very true, I don't know what is wrong with Edward naming his son James. The family has a list of usable names that are smaller than most families so why would anyone be calling dibs on names their uncle want to use?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Yes, you're right, prior to the Acts of Union in 1707 (which united England and Scotland into one kingdom), the monarchs used two regnal numbers, one for England and another for Scotland.

James I/VI
Charles I (same number for both kingdoms)
Charles II (same number for both kingdoms)
James II/VII
William III/II
Mary II (same number for both kingdoms)
Anne

After 1707 they used whichever regnal number was higher.
Thank you I didn't know things changed in 1707, you are very knowledgeable and thank you for sharing that with me. I personally like the two numbers but no one cares what I like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
Oh please, both the Queen and Princess Margaret honored their father by using the name Albert for their sons, it's not an exclusive situation.
Some people are just trying for any excuse with this situation. Plus even if you don't like a name you can put it on the birth certificate and never use it again.
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  #637  
Old 04-28-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
May I ask how you know they were 'forced' to name their kids certain ways or that 'no-one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names?'

I am curious as to your source for this information.
I have asked @XeniaCasaraghi the same question, but she appears to be unwilling or unable to answer.
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  #638  
Old 04-29-2018, 12:40 AM
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BTW it may be that they call the little nipper a completely different name in the home, like 'Jack'.
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  #639  
Old 04-29-2018, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
In Lousiana perhaps (where there is a French-speaking minority), or in Maine (that borders Quebec) ? Just kidding, but I guess no one pronounces for example St. Louis or Louis Armstrong the French way. Sometimes you get "Lewis" as in English or, more rarely, "Louie" with a silent 's', but not "Looee" with strong stress on the final syllable as in French.
In Ohio, Louis is usually pronounced "Lou-ee"

Louis Armstrong is also pronounced "Lou-ee."
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  #640  
Old 04-29-2018, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think that Louis, pronounced as in French, sounds pedantic (at least in North America) and runs against the image of the "cool, fun younger brother" that Harry and Andrew (in his old days) had.
The good thing is that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge don't need to really bother with how the American audience might perceive their choice of name for one of their children.

From a London / UK perspective, Louis is a not-uncommon name, pronounced Loo-ee. Don't see many her struggle with the name, or see it as particularly French either.
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