The Birth of HRH Prince Louis of Cambridge: April 23, 2018

[Curbside]

Interesting. I have always heard it pronounced with a hard S. When I hear the French pronunciation, I think of that song "Louie, Louie."

 

[Curbside]

Louis Armstrong was born and raised in New Orleans. St. Louis was founded by the French.

 

[Mbruno]

Interesting. I have always heard it pronounced with a hard S. When I hear the French pronunciation, I think of that song "Louie, Louie."

The French pronunciation is exactly as used in William's wedding. You can hear it on Google Translator setting the source language to French (it is pretty accurate). Maybe it's just me, but I have never heard it in North America, except of course in French-speaking areas like Quebec, or parts of New Brunswick or Ontario.

 

[Osipi]

Interesting. I have always heard it pronounced with a hard S. When I hear the French pronunciation, I think of that song "Louie, Louie."

I'm just going to keep reminding myself that Prince Louis' name is pronounced like in Donald Duck's nephews Huey, Dewey and Louie.

 

[Mbruno]

Louis Armstrong was born and raised in New Orleans. St. Louis was founded by the French.

Yes, I know. And so were Detroit and Des Moines, but no one in the US pronounces those names as in French anymore /Detruah or De Mwan@/.

Likewise, Anglo-Americans (and most Americans for that matter) don't pronounce Los Angeles or countless other (originally) Spanish cities in the US as in Spanish.

I'm just going to keep reminding myself that Prince Louis' name is pronounced like in Donald Duck's nephews Huey, Dewey and Louie.

"Louie", which is sometimes heard in North America, is not the same as French "Louis", the main difference being stress position and length/quality of the vowel.

Try hearing "Louie" with English as the source language on Google Translator and then hear "Louis" with French as the source language. Type as indicated above.

 

[Frideswide]

When I say WnK were forced to name their kids certain ways I mean no one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names.

And you know this how? Please provide a source for your assertion.

 

[Curbside]

Some of the French pronunciations endured, some did not. In general, though, the French "Louis" pronunciation in the US is limited to people or places with a French origin.

 

[Frideswide]

French "Louis" sounds too aristocratic in English to be a name the broader public can relate to. I may be wrong of course as that may not be the case in Britain.

It certainly isn't the case in Britain. Louis is a popular name here, although less so now than in the 2000s, and it's commonly known that it is pronounced Louie unless it is spelled Lewis.

People here are familiar with the French-style pronunciation. There are plenty of people with the name who appear on TV, eg Louis Theroux, Louis Walsh, Louis Tomlinson. All with a silent S.

 

[Mbruno]

It certainly isn't the case in Britain. Louis is a popular name here, although less so now than in the 2000s, and it's commonly known that it is pronounced Louie unless it is spelled Lewis.

People here are familiar with the French-style pronunciation. There are plenty of people with the name who appear on TV, eg Louis Theroux, Louis Walsh, Louis Tomlinson. All with a silent S.

I know "Louis Tomlinson" is pronounced "Louie" (with a silent 's'), but my point remains that "Louie" is not the same as French "Louis" as used in William's wedding, see the experiment I proposed to Osipi above.

My question is how popular French "Louis" (as opposed to Louie) is outside aristocratic or obviously Francophile circles ? In North America, it would be terribly pedantic and you would probably get teased in school (Louie would be OK though, probably).

 

[Lady Nimue]

In Lousiana perhaps (where there is a French-speaking minority), or in Maine (that borders Quebec) ? Just kidding, but I guess no one pronounces for example St. Louis or Louis Armstrong the French way. Sometimes you get "Lewis" as in English or, more rarely, "Louie" with a silent 's', but not "Looee" with strong stress on the final syllable as in French.

Interesting discussion. I have always pronounced St.Louis (the city) as 'Lewis'. But Louis Armstrong has always been 'Louie' Armstrong.

It's interesting how I will flip the pronunciation randomely (it appears). So I tried to see if I was unconsciously following some sort of grammatical rule: ex: 'a' before word starting with a consonant (a gentleman), 'an' before a word starting with a vowel (an alligator). I couldn't find any hidden rule operating but I do (for some reason) switch between the two pronunciations. In the list of Louis-es (supplied by someone) I found myself choosing Louie or Lewis randomly. On a thread here to do with a Prince Louis of Luxembourg (I think) I routinely read the name as 'Lewis' for some reason. Yet with the Cambridge baby I am inclined to say Prince Louie. Beats me why.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

St. Louis is St. Lewis but I have always heard Louis Armstrong pronounced Looee
No matter what the Louis in Williams name is pronounced the French way and that's how his son's name will be pronounced.

 

[Frideswide]

I know "Louis Tomlinson" is pronounced "Louie" (with a silent 's'), but my point remains "Louie" is not the same as French "Louis" as used in William's wedding, see the experiment I proposed to Osipi above.

My question is how popular French "Louis" (as opposed to Louie) is outside aristocratic or obviously Francophile circles ? In North America, it would be terribly pedantic and you wpuld probably get teased in school (Louie would be OK though, probably).

When I say "French" pronunciation I simply mean that the S is silent, Loo-ee rather than Loo-is.

I agree that many French people would say "Lwee", but I think most people are only concerned about the basic difference and the finer points don't matter here.

 

[Mbruno]

When I say "French" pronunciation I simply mean that the S is silent, Loo-ee rather than Loo-is.

I agree that many French people would say "Lwee", but I think most people are only concerned about the basic difference and the finer points don't matter here.

OK, I got your point now. Most people in Britain will just say "Louie", which is fine. Americans may say "Lewis" or "Louie". My confusion was that I was under the impression the RF was insisting on a true French pronunciation, which then would sound foreign to English ears.

I was listening to the wedding vows again, and I noticed Catherine pronounced it closer to French (as did the Archbishop), but William himself said it closer to "Louie", maybe because his French is rather poor as we have seen in his visits to Canada.

 

[Osipi]

Try hearing "Louie" with English as the source language on Google Translator and then hear "Louis" with French as the source language. Type as indicated above.

Thanks for that suggestion but its not going to fly with me because my ears don't work. I think I'm getting it though. Its not like lu wis or lu e but phonetically sounds like loo wee as in the pronunciation of Louise which is loo weese .

By Jove, I think I've got it.

 

[royal rob]

My fathers name was Lewis which to us was a very English name. Louis is a French name to me. But who knows why they called him that. I will get use to it .... eventually!

 

[QueenJen]

It's pronounced "Lewey" - here are W&K wedding vows.

 

[Gawin]

Can't see Prince Philip naming his son after a father that put his mother in an Asylum and abandoned him to be shunted among his relatives while going off to live with his latest mistress.

Philip's mother Alice was committed to an asylum by her own mother, Victoria, the Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven. Andrea had already left Alice by then but the relationship between husband and wife remained amicable.

Prince Andrew was named after Philip's father. Alice (wbo was in Greece) wrote to Philip: "I am so happy about Papa's name being given to the baby. The people's delight here about this is really touching. Unknown people waved to me in the streets, calling out Andreas. He is not forgotten here & still much loved."

Source: Hugo Vickers, Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece (Hamish Hamilton, 2000), pp. 169-170

 

[Mbruno]

It's pronounced "Lewey" - here are W&K wedding vows.

Again, it is subtle, but Catherine is the only one who really pronounced it closer to the French way.

Since she is the mother, maybe that is how she is going to call her child. Unless, of course, he is called Arthur instead at home (sometimes, royal children are not called at home by their first name, like King Willem Alexander, who was actually Alex at home).

Most likely, however, I am now inclined to think it will be "Louie" in British English pronunciation (as in "Louis Tomlinson") rather than French "Louis".

 

[PetticoatLane]

Michael should have been a name if not Carole or Caroline. And it wouldn't be a problem if Michael was a second name but Pippa used it as a first name. It's really quite sad that her dad has mostly been forgotten.

When I say WnK were forced to name their kids certain ways I mean no one would allow them to name their children non royal but still traditional British names.

Who says Michael 'should' have been a name? Or that he's been forgotten? Or that William and Kate were not allowed to name their children non-royal names so didn't choose it? (which is odd since both Michael and Caroline have been used by British royals before).

Maybe William and Kate don't like the name Michael? Heck, maybe Michael Middleton himself doesn't like the name Michael and so asked his daughter not to use it? My own father did this with his grandson.

Or maybe, the use of Michael is being reserved for James's eldest son (if he has one). When my uncle died early his sons agreed that the oldest brother had first dibs on the name.

We know for a fact that the Middletons see a lot of the Cambridge family, likely more than Charles does. I very much doubt Michael has been forgotten at all.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I agree with those who have said they don't understand the fuss over Louis being one of George's middle names; due to the associations with Louis Mountbatten. He was clearly a well loved cousin as William, George and now the baby prince have all been named after him (and Lord Nicholas Windsor has a son named Louis as well, who is a year older than Charlotte). And, as others have mentioned, it's common for royals to repeat names.

On another note; there are large stocks of commemorative memorabilia in some of the supermarkets. I brought myself a commemorative biscuit tin to complete my collection (starting from a coronation plate from George V's era which I inherited from my grandmother, who was a fellow royalty enthusiast).

 

[Gawin]

I think they would avoid it like the plague. James brings up too many difficulties with regnal number (it differs between England/Wales and Scotland) and the Jacobite pretenders.

As for "needed" for the direct line - there are plenty of names that are dignified enough for a monarch. I do not believe that there is any rule that the name of an heir must have a regnal precedent. If anyone knows different, I would be most interested to see proof of it.

In any case there would be no issue with more than one person in the family having the same forename.

ETA: That said, with Kate having a brother and now also a brother-in-law called James, that might be more than enough of them for now!

The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1953/apr/15/royal-style-and-title

 

[kathia_sophia]

It's pronounced "Lewey" - here are W&K wedding vows.

Now that I hear a second time, yes it's true. William says "Lewey" and Catherine says "Looee". I like "Lewey" better than the french "Looee". But I still perfer without the silent "S". Here in Portugal we say the "S", so it's gonna be difficult to get used to "Louie".

 

[Mbruno]

The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1953/apr/15/royal-style-and-title

That is interesting. We actually had a similar discussion recently in one of the Spanish forums. Typically, the kings of unified Spain follow the numbering of the old kings of Castile. Apparently, the issue first arose with Ferdinand VI whose last predecessor with the same name was Ferdinand II of Aragon (the Catholic King), but Ferdinand V of Castile (by his marriage to Queen Isabella I). According to the Spanish experts on the forum, they picked the highest numeral.

The same rule was applied apparently to Alfonso XII (the last Aragonese monarch with that name was Alfonso V, I guess).

 

[Gawin]

I agree with those who have said they don't understand the fuss over Louis being one of George's middle names; due to the associations with Louis Mountbatten. He was clearly a well loved cousin as William, George and now the baby prince have all been named after him (and Lord Nicholas Windsor has a son named Louis as well, who is a year older than Charlotte). And, as others have mentioned, it's common for royals to repeat names.

On another note; there are large stocks of commemorative memorabilia in some of the supermarkets. I brought myself a commemorative biscuit tin to complete my collection (starting from a coronation plate from George V's era which I inherited from my grandmother, who was a fellow royalty enthusiast).

I agree. Louis was also the name of Prince Philip's maternal grandfather Prince Louis of Battenberg (later Marquess of Milford Haven) and his great-grandfather Louis (Ludwig) IV, Grand Duke of Hesse. It's a nice way to honor Philip and his mother's family, who raised him after his mother was committed to a sanatorium and his father abdicated his role as a husband and father.

 

[Mbruno]

Now that I hear a second time, yes it's true. William says "Lewey" and Catherine says "Looee". I like "Lewey" better than the french "Looee".

Another evidence that Kate is "posher" than William ! Or she knows French better.

 

[Frideswide]

The Young Pretender was named Charles and his brother (and "successor") Cardinal Stuart was named Henry so it seems the Windsors aren't worried about using Jacobite names.

When the present Queen ascended the throne as Elizabeth II there were protests in Scotland, which had never had an Elizabeth I. The Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, stated "I think it would be reasonable and logical to continue to adopt in future whichever numeral in the English or Scottish line were higher."

So if a King James does ascend the British throne again he will be James VIII not James III.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1953/apr/15/royal-style-and-title

Well, exactly. Many Scots are very sensitive about such matters.

The "Old Pretender", son of the deposed James II, was also a James so that adds to the controversy over regnal numbers. It's a can of worms that is probably best not opened again.

 

[Rudolph]

Another evidence that Kate is "posher" than William ! Or she knows French better.

She at least knows some French because she took it in school. Sometimes William, Harry and Zara dumb down their accents while Kate uses a cut glass ‘Home Counties clip’ when speaking. More along the lines of Beatrice and Eugenie.

 

[miss whirley]

Another evidence that Kate is "posher" than William ! Or she knows French better.

I seem to remember last year, when the couple toured France, that one of the people that spoke to the couple told reporters that Catherine had better French pronunciation than William.

 

[Gawin]

Well, exactly. Many Scots are very sensitive about such matters.

The "Old Pretender", son of the deposed James II, was also a James so that adds to the controversy over regnal numbers. It's a can of worms that is probably best not opened again.

But Prince Charles will be Charles III despite the fact that the Young Pretender also claimed to be Charles III.

So unless he chooses another name as King the can of worms will be opened again.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well, I've always thought the Queen should have overruled Edward, when he named his son James.

James is a regnal name, which might be needed for the direct line.

I think the Cambridges might have chosen that, if it hadn't already been in use.

Edward is a regnal name and that didn't stop the Queen using it for her third son nor did she stop the Earl of St Andrews using it for his son, Lord Downpatrick.

George is a regnal name but the Duke of Kent used it for his son.

James is also the name of Princess Alexandra's son - so why didn't she overrule Alexandra's use of the name?

There can be multiple people in the family with the same name as seen in the BRF:

Charles - 2 (Charles and Viscount Linley)
Edward - 3 (Edward and the Duke of Kent and Lord Downpatrick - the Duke of Kent's grandson and at the time of Edward's birth 3 as the Duke of Windsor was still alive and so three Prince Edward's)
Marina - 2 granddaughter of the Duke of Kent (her second name is Charlotte by the way) and the daughter of Princess Alexandra
Louis - 2 - the new Prince and the youngest child of Lord Nicholas Windsor