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  #1041  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
And there you have stated the exact position of anti-monarchy republicans across Europe and the Commonwealth.

Why pay exorbitant $$ to see an average, dull, provincial person live in a palace and wear a crown?

Why indeed.



As I said before, I also think William's education is lacking somewhat (a postgraduate degree in internal relations for example and foreign language training would have been desirable).


Having said that, he has a 4-year first degree from one of the top universities in the UK and he had military training, including technical training that applies to a helicopter pilot. So it is not like he is some kind of High School dropout.



Actually he had far more formal education than, let's say, the Queen (which was literally none outside palace tutors, but times were different then).
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  #1042  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I think that William can (and will) be a good king even though he can only speak one langugage. Not a big deal.

But there is something else that confuses me. It seems to me like many of the next (and now current) generation of the royal families in Europe have a quite close bond. They get together both on official and unofficial occasions. They are a small group of people who share a unique experience, and I'm sure that it's very helpful to be able to discuss things with other people who can really understand where you're coming from.

There was - just as an example - a quite well known (here in Sweden) incident during the 2012 olympics in London. Prince Daniel and prince Carl Philip were sitting in the VIP section during a competition when William arrived. He obviously didn't even know who they were, even though the Swedish princes politely said hello.

Having other royals as trusted friends is a valuable thing, especially for the heirs. I really think that both William and Kate should put some effort in building those relationships.
At least William and Catherine visited Daniel and Victoria afterwards, so hopefully that wouldn't happen again but I didn't know about this 'incident'; do you have any links so I could read up on it?

I agree that it would be beneficial for William and Catherine to get to know the continental royals (a bit/lot) better.
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  #1043  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I think that William can (and will) be a good king even though he can only speak one langugage. Not a big deal.

But there is something else that confuses me. It seems to me like many of the next (and now current) generation of the royal families in Europe have a quite close bond. They get together both on official and unofficial occasions. They are a small group of people who share a unique experience, and I'm sure that it's very helpful to be able to discuss things with other people who can really understand where you're coming from.

There was - just as an example - a quite well known (here in Sweden) incident during the 2012 olympics in London. Prince Daniel and prince Carl Philip were sitting in the VIP section during a competition when William arrived. He obviously didn't even know who they were, even though the Swedish princes politely said hello.

Having other royals as trusted friends is a valuable thing, especially for the heirs. I really think that both William and Kate should put some effort in building those relationships.
I remember this incident at the London Olympics very well. I was surprised and annoyed. He and Harry looked Carl-Philip in the eye and walked right past him. The Swedish king's son might as well have been a popcorn vendor.

And I am 100% convinced that William would not have been on the receiving end of that kind of boorish rudeness had he been a guest in Stockhom, being hosted by CP Victoria or her brother Phillip. Heck...it wouldn't even have happened in Monaco.

William need not be friends with these people and attend their weddings and get togethers.

He should at least display basic courtesy.
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  #1044  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
As is usually the case Denville, we don't agree.

I do believe that he is emotionally/ psychologically prepared for what's ahead. I also believe that in some ways his parents failed him, Charles in particular since Diana tragically died in his adolescence.

But time will tell.
But I agree very much with you.
We live in the 21 st century and nothing will be as it was even now when William will be King. A tremendous change in society aso is going on and if there will still be monarchy it will need much more than advisors , who have by the way not always proofed to manage situations (->Sussex desaster)
Considering the lack of being multilingual I saw William trying to catch up at least with his French, and he speaks some Welsh, too ;-)
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  #1045  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:49 PM
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It’s interesting you say that because my thought would be that an intense education and training period would be much more useful for Kings in those earlier time periods when they were truly powerful and could make consequential decisions. None of the modern European monarchs have this ability - that power now rests with politicians. To me the most important thing a modern King or Queen can do is listen to the many, many experienced and knowledgeable people they have access to.

I can’t help thinking that the intense preparation some of the heirs get has an element of trying to show people they’re getting their money’s worth out of the monarchy. It also turns into a bit of a circular argument - look at all the education and training we’re giving this person so you can see the monarchy is worth keeping around becomes, (maybe, they hope), the monarchy must serve some very complicated and unique purpose because look at how much time and effort they’ve put into so and so’s education and training.

I like hearing about the different perspectives people have here. You all make me think!

I will say, in defence of Charles and Diana, (and McDonald’s), they did make sure William and Harry were used to being around the press and especially the public from very young ages. And not always in completely artificial ways. I think it served both boys well, and i expect they would have gotten more of this had Diana lived. In other ways I agree that Charles and Diana were too much wrapped up in their own drama and too little wrapped up in the day to day care of their sons.
I think that's part of it in some ways. I would have had no objection if William had been sent for a year abroad or to advanced classes and things might well change for George, we'll see.

William has handled himself well when he's been in the diplomatic "cosmopolitan" role. That tour of Pakistan for example and Israel, Palestine and Jordan in three days would be some on the job experience, more so than for example, studying for a year in Canada. Having experience as a first responder seems to have helped him a lot in talking to frontline staff in the last year as well. He's also as the article reminded us had a crash course in seeing how GCHQ operate and clearly thinks about politics.

All the foreign boarding schools, colleges and studying can't force someone to be interesting and cosmopolitan, believe me I've seen it tried when the person involved just wasn't interested.

As for not being friends with the other European royals? Well they have met Victoria and Daniel a couple of times since then but it doesn't in general seem to be something the BRF is particularly interested in. Although I believe Edward and Sophie are quite good friends with some of them, being only a little older and the ones sent to all the weddings as a "safe pair of hands".
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  #1046  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I think that William can (and will) be a good king even though he can only speak one langugage. Not a big deal.

But there is something else that confuses me. It seems to me like many of the next (and now current) generation of the royal families in Europe have a quite close bond. They get together both on official and unofficial occasions. They are a small group of people who share a unique experience, and I'm sure that it's very helpful to be able to discuss things with other people who can really understand where you're coming from.

There was - just as an example - a quite well known (here in Sweden) incident during the 2012 olympics in London. Prince Daniel and prince Carl Philip were sitting in the VIP section during a competition when William arrived. He obviously didn't even know who they were, even though the Swedish princes politely said hello.

Having other royals as trusted friends is a valuable thing, especially for the heirs. I really think that both William and Kate should put some effort in building those relationships.
I agree that it would be good for William and Kate to socialize with the continental royals. (But maybe that's because I would!)

However, in a wee bit of fairness to them, William is not the heir apparent, and the British Monarchy is 'off generation' to the Continental monarchies, and [possibly because of the travel requirements of the Commonwealth] the Queen tends to send Edward & Sophie to continental royal events where introductions & friendships could be made. The 'major' events of course naturally still go to Charles.

(Now, that doesn't excuse William from reading the newspaper/knowing faces. )

I would expect the same event today would be a bit different. In addition to their brief Scandanavian tour a few years ago, William and Kate have attended quite a few State Banquets in the U.K. with royals (Spain, Netherlands, and maybe another I'm forgetting.)
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  #1047  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As I said before, I also think William's education is lacking somewhat (a postgraduate degree in internal relations for example and foreign language training would have been desirable).


Having said that, he has a 4-year first degree from one of the top universities in the UK and he had military training, including technical training that applies to a helicopter pilot. So it is not like he is some kind of High School dropout.



Actually he had far more formal education than, let's say, the Queen (which was literally none outside palace tutors, but times were different then).
Just a side note here. The Duchess of Sussex graduated from Northwestern University in Chicago with a Bachelor of Arts degree in theater and international relations. I don't think the international relations degree helped her much lately at all.

Knowledge is one thing but experience is also a wonderful teacher. I can read and read and read about climbing the pyramids of Egypt until the cows come home and understand what it's like to climb a pyramid but until I actually go there and actually do it, I don't *know* what climbing a pyramid is like.
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  #1048  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cathy50 View Post
But I agree very much with you.
We live in the 21 st century and nothing will be as it was even now when William will be King. A tremendous change in society aso is going on and if there will still be monarchy it will need much more than advisors , who have by the way not always proofed to manage situations (->Sussex desaster)
Considering the lack of being multilingual I saw William trying to catch up at least with his French, and he speaks some Welsh, too ;-)
When he and Kate were received privately by President and Mme. Macron, there was a guest present who described an awkward, uncomfortable moment when the president of the French Republic began addressing the young couple in French. He naturally assumed that he could do that since other young Royal visitors to the Elysee could speak and understand French easily.

President Macron quickly realized his error. Thank goodness for his own perfect English.

This incident was not a deal breaker, but how nice would it have been for the future British head of State to have spoken French at least as well as his father does? His experience as an ambulance pilot did not serve him well on this overseas visit.

It is not strictly necessary that Charles knows German and French, obviously. But it comes in handy no less.
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  #1049  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I think that's part of it in some ways. I would have had no objection if William had been sent for a year abroad or to advanced classes and things might well change for George, we'll see.

William has handled himself well when he's been in the diplomatic "cosmopolitan" role. That tour of Pakistan for example and Israel, Palestine and Jordan in three days would be some on the job experience, more so than for example, studying for a year in Canada. Having experience as a first responder seems to have helped him a lot in talking to frontline staff in the last year as well. He's also as the article reminded us had a crash course in seeing how GCHQ operate and clearly thinks about politics.

All the foreign boarding schools, colleges and studying can't force someone to be interesting and cosmopolitan, believe me I've seen it tried when the person involved just wasn't interested.

As for not being friends with the other European royals? Well they have met Victoria and Daniel a couple of times since then but it doesn't in general seem to be something the BRF is particularly interested in. Although I believe Edward and Sophie are quite good friends with some of them, being only a little older and the ones sent to all the weddings as a "safe pair of hands".
Well, of course it is difficult or impossible to compare scandinavian countries to the UK. The scandinavian royals are much better suited and accepted in society and lead a totally different lifestyle, and the danish is much older than the british by the way.
William&Kate could actually learn a lot from the scandinavian for the upcoming challenges.
And some monarchs face a much more political role than the British of course.
And I think this is another reason why some prepare their heir much more or different (studies at university aso) than the british, because at the moment HM&Charles simply do what the Parliament tells them plus charity.

A spanish heir or Mathilde face really political roles in their future, it's not only about cutting ribbons and being a little diplomatic every now and then when travelling like Charles&co have to.

But as I said above Britain like all countries will face huge changes, let's see how things will work out for all of them.
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  #1050  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
At least William and Catherine visited Daniel and Victoria afterwards, so hopefully that wouldn't happen again but I didn't know about this 'incident'; do you have any links so I could read up on it?

I agree that it would be beneficial for William and Catherine to get to know the continental royals (a bit/lot) better.
I'm sure that William would recognise Daniel now, especially after the visit. But I don't think that W&K are personal friends with the other European royals of their generation. I hope that can change in the future.

I tried to google but didn't find any photos of this, but I know they are out there. If I find them, I'll post them here!
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  #1051  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
When he and Kate were received privately by President and Mme. Macron, there was a guest present who described an awkward, uncomfortable moment when the president of the French Republic began addressing the young couple in French. He naturally assumed that he could do that since other young Royal visitors to the Elysee could speak and understand French easily.

President Macron quickly realized his error. Thank goodness for his own perfect English.

This incident was not a deal breaker, but how nice would it have been for the future British head of State to have spoken French at least as well as his father does? His experience as an ambulance pilot did not serve him well on this overseas visit.

It is not strictly necessary that Charles knows German and French, obviously. But it comes in handy no less.

OMG, I do not know this, embarrassing, I am with you.
Well, even adults can try and learn languages ;-)
I am sure William is not so happy about this lack of education and Kate does not seem to be capable either. At least their children will probably do better.
I really find it hard to understand wha nobody not the Queen either stepped in when Charles children were not powered or to learn languages, as herself she speaks good French and Philip speaks so many languages.
But this is just another aspect when I think the BRf has missed a load of things in the upbringing of their offsprings. Of course times were different, but HM sticks a lot to traditions and missed a lot of good developments which now the future generations have to face and deal with. Which in my eyes does not serve HM for compliment.
Charles is maybe too old for big changes, let's see how the people will deal when HM dies.
but William will have to do something if monarchy should remain.
I know a lot of people simply deny to think the unthinkable and yes, Britain without the monarchy seems odd at first BUT
time is rushing in our days, changes are so quick we can hardly catchup with
and after all monarchy is an anachronism which will not last forever.
But I am getting into philosophy, sorry.
The mankind will face problems of ensuring it's pure existnce and hardly rely on aristocracy.
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  #1052  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:24 PM
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Here's another example of an event where I think it would have been wonderful if W/K had participated. I know there were other meetings like this one, but it gives you an idea. I really don't understand why they don't put more effort into building friendly relationships with other young royals.

https://www.newmyroyals.com/2013/03/...n-visited.html
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  #1053  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I'm sure that William would recognise Daniel now, especially after the visit. But I don't think that W&K are personal friends with the other European royals of their generation. I hope that can change in the future.

I tried to google but didn't find any photos of this, but I know they are out there. If I find them, I'll post them here!
Not sure about Google but there was a real reaction on every Royal message board including this one. ( see archived threads for London Olympics and/or Relationships between Royals)

It was a very big thing, with Cambridge and BRF apologists launching into their usual "who cares if William does not know his Royal peers, he doesn't socialize, the Windsors are #1!" etc.

Forget about the fact that England was the HOST country and these were William's contemporaries and his peers.
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  #1054  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I'm sure that William would recognise Daniel now, especially after the visit. But I don't think that W&K are personal friends with the other European royals of their generation. I hope that can change in the future.

I tried to google but didn't find any photos of this, but I know they are out there. If I find them, I'll post them here!
At least there is footage showing Sophie hugging Carl Philip, so she knew the swedish royals ;-)
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  #1055  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:36 PM
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I think it would be great if William and every other monarch spoke multiple languages. Honestly, I'm trying to make sure my own kids speak at least three languages, and we're as common as dirt. But in fairness, I do know some people that, despite years of diligent work, couldn't master a foreign language. I promised my own kids that if they don't like it they can quit at a certain age.

But it sounds like someone from William's team didn't represent William and Kate's language preferences correctly in advance of the private meeting. Diplomacy at that level doesn't depend on assumptions and generalizations on language fluency.

Either William's team forgot to express that his preferred language was English and bring a translator, or William was overconfident in his French in advance of the visit. I'm more critical of William for not realizing that it could be an issue in advance, than his french skills at the moment. I test as conversational in French, but if I was meeting the President of France I would be sure to have a translator with me or get explicit advance confirmation that all communication would be in English.
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  #1056  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cathy50 View Post
OMG, I do not know this, embarrassing, I am with you.
Well, even adults can try and learn languages ;-)
I am sure William is not so happy about this lack of education and Kate does not seem to be capable either. At least their children will probably do better.
I really find it hard to understand wha nobody not the Queen either stepped in when Charles children were not powered or to learn languages, as herself she speaks good French and Philip speaks so many languages.
But this is just another aspect when I think the BRf has missed a load of things in the upbringing of their offsprings. Of course times were different, but HM sticks a lot to traditions and missed a lot of good developments which now the future generations have to face and deal with. Which in my eyes does not serve HM for compliment.
Charles is maybe too old for big changes, let's see how the people will deal when HM dies.
but William will have to do something if monarchy should remain.
I know a lot of people simply deny to think the unthinkable and yes, Britain without the monarchy seems odd at first BUT
time is rushing in our days, changes are so quick we can hardly catchup with
and after all monarchy is an anachronism which will not last forever.
But I am getting into philosophy, sorry.
The mankind will face problems of ensuring it's pure existnce and hardly rely on aristocracy.
I am trying to Google the actual article. The difficulty is that I don't remember if it was in Le Monde or an English print newspaper..and whether Hollande or Macron was the actual president at the time.

But I did absolutely 100% cross my heart and hope to die read it.
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  #1057  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Here's another example of an event where I think it would have been wonderful if W/K had participated. I know there were other meetings like this one, but it gives you an idea. I really don't understand why they don't put more effort into building friendly relationships with other young royals.

https://www.newmyroyals.com/2013/03/...n-visited.html
isn't that typical for a press reports saying the Queen insists to protocol and Charles is the heir not William, though I agree W&K could profit very much and especially their children in the future.
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  #1058  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I am trying to Google the actual article. The difficulty is that I don't remember if it was in Le Monde or an English print newspaper..and whether Hollande or Macron was the actual president at the time.

But I absolutely 100% cross my heart and hope to die read it.
I think it was 2017 and Hollande, at least I know he is fluent in English, Macron I am not sure.
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  #1059  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:59 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...r-dianas-death

To William's credit, he is not pretentious about his lack of fluency. He is very charming in fact.

And he does try.

The above is not the article dealing with the awkward private one-on-one at the Elysee btw.
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  #1060  
Old 03-22-2021, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
Here's another example of an event where I think it would have been wonderful if W/K had participated. I know there were other meetings like this one, but it gives you an idea. I really don't understand why they don't put more effort into building friendly relationships with other young royals.

https://www.newmyroyals.com/2013/03/...n-visited.html
Given that they aren't the heirs yet, would make it a little awkward for them to have joined a meeting of the 'heirs'. As if they were trying to replace Charles. Nonetheless, they (both 1982) are about the same age as Guillaume (1981) and Stephanie (1984), so agewise they could join them - or at least the remaining 'not-yet-monarchs'. Hopefully the couples met at least a few times over the period that Guillaume and Stephanie lived in London.
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