Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Tyger]

I'm still on page 10.....

Just want to say that I am learning soooooo much on this thread! In fact, I think following the conversation has been a wonderful corrective for my incipient dementia.

However, round about post #198, my eyes began to glaze over as I tried to keep straight the 'peregrinations' of the titles of Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay. I am trusting (hoping) that my 'brain freeze' is the result of the late hour and the considerable concentration I have vested to follow all the subtleties.

It does help that the information is routinely stated - then stated wrong - then correctly stated - kind of like a quiz. I can spot the errors now!

 

[Kataryn]

OHHH.. I think Mrs. Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor has a classy ring to it too.

Wouldn't she be Mrs. Catherine Windsor as the Mountbatten-Windsor name is reserved for those male descendants of the queen who are not in the direct line to the throne. But William is, so his family name is only Windsor.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Wouldn't she be Mrs. Catherine Windsor as the Mountbatten-Windsor name is reserved for those male descendants of the queen who are not in the direct line to the throne. But William is, so his family name is only Windsor.

The Mountbatten-Windsor is for her descendents who don't have HRH or who don't have another surname so if William does have an actual surname - and that is debatable in itself - it would be Mountbatten-Windsor.

We know that the registry records have Mountbatten-Windsor recorded as the surname of Anne, Charles and Andrew at some time (I am not sure about Edward but I wouldn't be surprised if his says the same thing). Who put that there is open for discussion as well but if the official records can use that name for the monarch's own children then I think we can say that if William has a surname then it is the full Mountbatten-Windsor (as it should be - Philip should be able to pass his name to his descendents).

 

[Warren]

The continuing discussion about the York daughters has been moved to the Duties and Roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie thread.

 

[branchg]

Wouldn't she be Mrs. Catherine Windsor as the Mountbatten-Windsor name is reserved for those male descendants of the queen who are not in the direct line to the throne. But William is, so his family name is only Windsor.

When a surname is necessary, William is Mountbatten-Windsor as a descendant of Philip and The Queen. All other descendants of George V in the male line use Windsor.

 

[karla64]

Duke and Duchess of Monmouth????

Could Wills and Kate become the new Duke and Duchess of Monmouth? | Mail Online

 

[Lady Ann]

Duke and Duchess of Monmouth????

Could Wills and Kate become the new Duke and Duchess of Monmouth? | Mail Online

I read this too but dismissed it right away ... I hope not in my opinion..I hate the sound of it...

 

[Iluvbertie]

For a future Prince of Wales - Duke of Monmouth sounds good to me.

 

[zembla]

The international press will just call her Princess Kate or Catherine anyway, so I could see the Queen making an exception. I know the press is saying it will cause some drama in the family, particularly with Princess Michael of Kent, but William out ranks Michael. So...that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The international press will just call her Princess Kate or Catherine anyway, so I could see the Queen making an exception. I know the press is saying it will cause some drama in the family, particularly with Princess Michael of Kent, but William out ranks Michael. So...that shouldn't be a problem.

Rank isn't the issue - tradition and rules are.

Giving her a title in her own right also mean that she keeps it on divorce (which I hope doesn't happen but given his family's record it can't be ruled out).

 

[Mirabel]

I like the title Duke of Monmouth; I think it sounds better than Duke of Clarence, or Duke of Cambridge.

Although, as soon as Charles succeeds to the throne, won't William become Duke of Cornwall?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I like the title Duke of Monmouth; I think it sounds better than Duke of Clarence, or Duke of Cambridge.

Although, as soon as Charles succeeds to the throne, won't William become Duke of Cornwall?

Yes - the instant Charles becomes King William becomes Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay etc but not Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester. These titles will have to be recreated for William.

Given the Queen Mother's longevity William might have to wait another 10 - 20 years before becoming Duke of Cornwall.

 

[Mirabel]

Yes - the instant Charles becomes King William becomes Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay etc but not Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester. These titles will have to be recreated for William.

Given the Queen Mother's longevity William might have to wait another 10 - 20 years before becoming Duke of Cornwall.

So, if William is given a title like Duke of Monmouth when he marries, does that mean he'll keep both titles when Charles becomes king? (That and also Duke of Cornwall)?

 

[Iluvbertie]

So, if William is given a title like Duke of Monmouth when he marries, does that mean he'll keep both titles when Charles becomes king? (That and also Duke of Cornwall)?

Yes - in 1901 that was exactly what happened to George V. He was Duke of York and when Victoria died he added Duke of Cornwall etc.

When he came to Australia that year to open the first ever Australian Parliament on the 9th May he did so as officially the Duke of Cornwall and York - and the official programmes from that day refer to him as such.

Just an aside for people who may not know why George VI and Queen Elizabeth left their baby daughter in 1927 for six months or so - it was so that he could open the first Australian Parliament House - on the 9th May 1927. Then in 1988, Queen Elizabeth II opened the new Parliament House and you guessed it - 9th May. That was also why she wasn't here for the Bicentenary Celebrations and send Charles and Diana along for that in January that year.

Of course Charles could prevent that mouthful from happening by simply creating William Prince of Wales immediately - and that would trump all other titles but the precedent of Edward VII could mean that he waits some time before conferring that title on his son - Edward VII waited until his own birthday later in 1901 before creating George V Prince of Wales.

 

[vittoria]

Duke of Monmouth? I don't know. The first Duke of Monmouth was illegitimate and came to such a bad end. It's not a title I'd want to bear.

 

[Lenora]

How about the titles of Duke Richmond-Lenox or Dorset?

 

[NGalitzine]

How about the titles of Duke Richmond-Lenox or Dorset?

There already is an existing Duke of Richmond

 

[FasterB]

Pardon me, but I can´t stop laughing when I read the title Duke of Monmouth - to me it sounds like: Duke of Mammooth

 

[Iluvbertie]

Pardon me, but I can´t stop laughing when I read the title Duke of Monmouth - to me it sounds like: Duke of Mammooth

Sorry but what is 'mammooth'? I don't know this word.

 

[FasterB]

Sorry but what is 'mammooth'? I don't know this word.

Mammooth is an animal from the ice age. This is a mammooth

 

[Iluvbertie]

Thank you.
I still don't get what is so funny but...

 

[Jessi3172000]

Mamooth! Thank you for pointing out exactly what I was thinking! I thought I was just saying Monmouth funny or something! There's no way I could have that title and not think of that! I'm sure it's a great title to have, my sense of humor is just odd, I guess.

I like the sound of Duke of Cambridge. But I wonder if Kate would then always wear the Cambridge Lovers' Knot Tiara that Di made famous (to me, anyway). The ring, the tiara... that might be a bit much.

What are the odds of HM creating a new or recreating an old title for Wills? Perhaps it'll be something we haven't even thought of. A wildcard, like making Edward an Earl was.

 

[jemagre]

Yes - in 1901 that was exactly what happened to George V. He was Duke of York and when Victoria died he added Duke of Cornwall etc. When he came to Australia that year to open the first ever Australian Parliament on the 9th May he did so as officially the Duke of Cornwall and York - and the official programmes from that day refer to him as such.

Might that be too many ducal titles for him? Also how likely is it that Prince William will become Prince of Wales after his father? I had heard that is becoming unlikely

 

[Iluvbertie]

Might that be too many ducal titles for him? Also how likely is it that Prince William will become Prince of Wales after his father? I had heard that is becoming unlikely

It would be no more ducal titles than George V had due to being in the same position - eldest surviving son of the Prince of Wales.

The PoW title will be discussed at the appropriate time and it maybe that the Welsh Assembly and Chief Minister advise either for or against it but Charles, I am sure, will seek their advice and act accordingly.

 

[LadyNemesis]

Well here's just a thought, why couldn't William just let his oldest son use whatever title he is given at marriage as a courtesy title when Charles becomes King and William becomes
Duke of Cornwall....provided of course that he and Kate have a son at that time.

 

[Mirabel]

Duke of Monmouth? I don't know. The first Duke of Monmouth was illegitimate and came to such a bad end. It's not a title I'd want to bear.

There were always rumors that he really was legitimate, because Charles II and Lucy Walter went through a secret marriage while Charles II was in exile.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Mammooth is an animal from the ice age. This is a mammooth

That's actually a wooly mammoth. Not a mammooth.

 

[vittoria]

Yes, Mirabel, I'm aware of the rumors, but I think they were entirely fanciful. Given Charles's hope of being restored to the throne, it seems quite unlikely that he would have contracted a secret marriage with the unsuitable Lucy. She wasn't low-born by any means, but she wasn't an appropriate future queen consort either. Given Charles's reputation, if there was some sort of ceremony, I think it likely that it wasn't valid and was arranged for the obvious reason. But a ceremony probably wasn't necessary; Lucy, by all accounts, wasn't a blushing virgin.

 

[FasterB]

Mamooth! Thank you for pointing out exactly what I was thinking! I thought I was just saying Monmouth funny or something! There's no way I could have that title and not think of that! I'm sure it's a great title to have, my sense of humor is just odd, I guess.

¨
You´re so welcome. I´m just glad that someone has the same weird sense of humor as I

Thank you.

I still don't get what is so funny but...

It´s just the pronounciation that I think is funny Weird sense of humor, I know

 

[branchg]

What are the odds of HM creating a new or recreating an old title for Wills? Perhaps it'll be something we haven't even thought of. A wildcard, like making Edward an Earl was.

As the fount of honours, The Queen can create any title she wants for William. While the speculation is focused on Duke of Cambridge, it could be something entirely different, as when Prince Edward was created Earl of Wessex.

Well here's just a thought, why couldn't William just let his oldest son use whatever title he is given at marriage as a courtesy title when Charles becomes King and William becomes Duke of Cornwall....provided of course that he and Kate have a son at that time.

Under the 1917 Letters Patent, if William has a son while his grandmother still reigns, he would automatically be HRH Prince of the UK as the eldest son of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales.

All of William's children would become HRH automatically once Charles becomes King as male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign. Otherwise, they would hold courtesy styles as the children of a Duke.