Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Jacknch]

If it is true that William has asked not to be given a title and for Catherine to be made princess in her own right, then it leaves me rather torn on the subject! I am not comfortable with Catherine being known as Princess William even though that is the tradition and convention in this country! For some reason it doesn't sound right even though Princess Michael does sound ok (probably because of being familiar with the name). Very few people these days go by their husbands name (e.g. Mrs John Smith) and I simply do not think the public will respond well to Princess William. Equally, I sympathize with William's desire to remain known as Prince William.

The only solution (if a solution is required) is to make Catherine a princess in her own right but it's not been done before and the last thing the Queen will want is Princess Michael of Kent turning up at Buckingham Palace asking to be released from her male title!

 

[Lenora]

Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla

 

[Lumutqueen]

Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla

It's safe to assume that if HM creates new LPs to make Catherine a Princess, she would have to (to be fair) create Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine of Kent Princess' in their own right as well..

 

[princess carmen]

I don't see why she would have to make them all princess's in their own right. They already have their titles and Catherine will be the future kings wife.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't see why she would have to make them all princess's in their own right. They already have their titles and Catherine will be the future kings wife.

Why should she create Catherine a Princess in her own right and not everyone else? What makes Catherine so special?
Camilla is the heirs wife, and Catherine will become Duchess of Cornwall and of Rothesay when her father in law inherits the throne William may recieve his own title when he marries, therefor Catherine will become a Duchess.

 

[Skippy]

Why should she create Catherine a Princess in her own right and not everyone else? What makes Catherine so special?
Camilla is the heirs wife, and Catherine will become Duchess of Cornwall and of Rothesay when her father in law inherits the throne William may recieve his own title when he marries, therefor Catherine will become a Duchess.

I think princess carmen refers to their importancy to the throne. In that way, Camilla and Catherine are, and Birgitte, Katherine etc. not so much.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla

No she won't. She takes her rank from her husband, so even if HM were to create Catherine a princess in her own right, she'd still rank in the order of precedence for ladies in the same position that William ranks in the order of precedence for gentlemen. At least, that's how it was explained here before.

Camilla will outrank Catherine until Catherine is Queen, and then Camilla as a Dowager Queen will be right below her.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla

Camilla is a princess now - HRH The Princess Charles.

Sophie is also a princess - HRH The Princess Edward

Brigitte is HRH Princess Richard and Katherine HRH Princess Edward while HRH Princess Michael of Kent is known like that because her husband has no other title.

I can't see the Queen giving her grand-daughter-in-law a title without extending it to all the others who have married males and become Princesses husband's name.

The reason we don't hear Princess Charles etc is because their husbands have other titles.

The females take the style and title of the husband so Kate will become a Princess on marriage - HRH Princess William of Wales.

Currently when only the ladies are present the princesses born take precedence over the princesses or other ladies who married into the royal family. Creating Catherine Princess Catherine won't change that - she would still be one who married in and Camilla will still be higher as she is married to the heir to the throne.

William clearly wants to change the idea of woman taking their husband's titles and styles when it means that the woman looses her own identity in the process.

I can see the Queen doing this but doing it in a general way - making all the ladies who are princesses by marriage but using their husbands' names princesses own name instead.

 

[Mrs.B]

Camilla uses the title of Duchess of Cornwall for obvious reasons otherwise she too would be called the Princess of Wales.

Catherine is marrying an heir to the throne and I don't see why the Queen can't make an exception here and have Catherine styled "Princess". It could even be seen as a step towards modernizing the monarchy by keeping things "simple" rather than giving them new titles on their wedding day.

 

[rossop7]

Could there not be a new precedent set whereby William wanting to perhaps modernise etc & not have the woman go 100% fully on what the husband's title is, asks the Queen to let Catherine be known as Princess Catherine of Wales, not actually making her a Princess properly in her own right (so were they to divorce she'd no longer be Princess anything) but merely taking William's current title but not using the standard full male form of it. So basically going with Princess William of Wales but allowing her to use her actual name in place of William. They could make it clear that she wasn't a Princess outright but was merely just using her own name but with William's title, rather like how many wives these days aren't Mrs John Smith, they are Mrs. Sue Smith or whatever, they take the title/family name of the husband but keep their first name.

That seems doable to me, shows some modernising in the sense of not forcing the woman to take the man's name with the title but not forcing the Queen to make her a proper Princess & thus all the other wives of various family members proper Princesses. I mean she's going to be known as Princess Catherine (or maybe Princess Kate!) anyway in the Press etc, whether it's her title or not, like they did with Diana.

And then perhaps later on in years to come when they are both more active in Royal Duties, or when William becomes the heir, rather than the heir to the heir, they can get a more official title for her, Princess of Wales etc. Works for me anyway even though it's probably against all tradition etc, I can see William wanting it if he's going for a more modern style with the Monarchy etc.

 

[Marie of The Sea]

I hope to see William get what he wants for Kate.
It's a joy to see Catherine with William in the banner above.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Camilla uses the title of Duchess of Cornwall for obvious reasons otherwise she too would be called the Princess of Wales.

Catherine is marrying an heir to the throne and I don't see why the Queen can't make an exception here and have Catherine styled "Princess". It could even be seen as a step towards modernizing the monarchy by keeping things "simple" rather than giving them new titles on their wedding day.

I don't see what Camilla using the title Duchess of Cornwall instead of Princess of Wales has anything to do with it?

It was be more difficult to create new Letters Patent to give Catherine the title of Princess in her own right, than to simple give her the title her husband will have.

Could there not be a new precedent set whereby William wanting to perhaps modernise etc & not have the woman go 100% fully on what the husband's title is, asks the Queen to let Catherine be known as Princess Catherine of Wales, not actually making her a Princess properly in her own right (so were they to divorce she'd no longer be Princess anything) but merely taking William's current title but not using the standard full male form of it. So basically going with Princess William of Wales but allowing her to use her actual name in place of William. They could make it clear that she wasn't a Princess outright but was merely just using her own name but with William's title, rather like how many wives these days aren't Mrs John Smith, they are Mrs. Sue Smith or whatever, they take the title/family name of the husband but keep their first name.

That seems doable to me, shows some modernising in the sense of not forcing the woman to take the man's name with the title but not forcing the Queen to make her a proper Princess & thus all the other wives of various family members proper Princesses. I mean she's going to be known as Princess Catherine (or maybe Princess Kate!) anyway in the Press etc, whether it's her title or not, like they did with Diana.

And then perhaps later on in years to come when they are both more active in Royal Duties, or when William becomes the heir, rather than the heir to the heir, they can get a more official title for her, Princess of Wales etc. Works for me anyway even though it's probably against all tradition etc, I can see William wanting it if he's going for a more modern style with the Monarchy etc.

Sorry, but what's the point of being known as Princess Catherine, when you aren't an actualy Princess? You're pretending to be someone you were never born to be.

 

[rossop7]

Sorry, but what's the point of being known as Princess Catherine, when you aren't an actualy Princess? You're pretending to be someone you were never born to be.

Well you could argue what's the point of the Royal Family at all when they aren't the rulers or have any real power over the country? Lol. It's just for the sake of it, the simple show of it all these days. Maybe it's just me but it doesn't bother me if she's a "real" Princess or not, she's going to be called Princess even if she never actually gets that title officially, people/media will just call her it anyway regardless. It's just a title, something for show if you like, it doesn't actually mean something in the way it did centuries ago. I mean don't get me wrong I love having the Royal Fmaily for the tradition of it, the tourism & industry it brings to the country, the symbolism etc but that's all it is really these days, symbols, so I've no problem with her just having a title solely for the purposes of the symbolism of it, the PR of it if you like, rather than any actual basis to it.

I think they either have to go the traditional way of having a Dukedom upon marriage so she gets her own title, Duchess of wherever, or they go about things in a slightly different though not too outrageous way & just let her keep her first name but take William's title for now even if it's merely for show. Then again if neither are gong to be doing too much in Royal Duties right away maybe no-one will care if she's officially Princess William of Wales because we won't really see much of them in official capacities in order to use it.

 

[Lenora]

I don't understand the British titles as "Lady Nicholas Windsor"(as she wasn't a born lady) or "Princess Michael "(she wasn't born Princess),it doesn't sound well and it's pretty funny .I understand William in this point,as Russian or French royals or nobles don't apply these rules

 

[windsorgirl]

I hope there's some truth to this because I think it's a wonderful idea to make Kate HRH Princess Catherine of Wales. As has been said, that's what she'll be referred to anyway just like the rest of the European princesses. I happen to think it's more ridiculous to make the couple Duke & Duchess of Somewhere they don't live and have no particular ties to.

 

[Zonk]

I don't understand the British titles as "Lady Nicholas Windsor"(as she wasn't a born lady) or "Princess Michael "(she wasn't born Princess),it doesn't sound well and it's pretty funny .I understand William in this point,as Russian or French royals or nobles don't apply these rules

As previously discussed, women in take precedence and their titles from their husband. I fail to see how its pretty funny.

So Marie Christine and Paola became Princess Michael of Kent and Lady Nicholas Windsor when they married.

Likewise, Lady Helen Windsor who was born a Lady as the daughter of a duke...became Lady Helen Taylor at her wedding. Assuming the last name of her husband. And her husband gets no title.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Please can I get one point across.

ALL the wives of the men are Princesses but they use their husband's names. It is the same thing as any woman marrying - technically Mrs Jane Smith is the divorced wife of Mr John Smith and Mrs John Smith is the correct technical form of the wife of Mr John Smith.

To make Catherine Princess Catherine officially (which is what it seems William wants) will require LPs and would also mean creating the other wives of Princes Princess own name in their own right. The only one that would change the way that they are known would be Princess Michael of Kent who would be known then as Princess Marie-Christine rather than Princess Michael.

There is a difference between the title and the style e.g. Camilla uses her husband's title of Duchess of Cornwall but she is also Princess Charles and thus a Princess.

What this report suggests is that William wants to change that styling - fine - so long as it applies to all the other princesses by marriage, even if they use titles additional to the title Princess.

Whatever way the Queen goes on this Kate's titles will be HRH Princess xxxx of Wales, then Duchess of Cornwall, then probably Princess of Wales and finally Queen. She wouldn't go backwards from being a Princess to being a Duchess on the accession of Charles but would add additional titles to the basic title of Princess.

 

[branchg]

I've read in British Royal Info that William his grandmother,the Queen,not to give the title of Duke or any other.Could it be true?

It may be true he asked his grandmother to consider it, but The Queen is not likely to grant Catherine the right to be "Princess Catherine". In the UK, the precedent followed for wives' styles marrying HRH is the same practice used in the Peerage.

Catherine would assume the style, rank and title of her husband if superior to her own. Like any woman who marries a son or male-line grandson of The Sovereign, she automatically becomes a Princess of the UK with the style, rank and attribute of Royal Highness (HRH Princess William of Wales). Since this style is simply a courtesy title regulated by the will of the Sovereign, it is customary for a Peerage to be granted to provide a title.

If William prefers not to be created a Duke, the The Queen can create him an Earl instead to provide a title for Catherine.

 

[Zonk]

I doubt that William will ask his grandmother to make Catherine a Princess in her own right.

What would be the purpose. I am would assume that he knows what would be involved and why go thru the hassle. And frankly, it isn't done in the BRF and I can't see the purpose of doing it now.

 

[Jaya]

These are modern times and the Queen can bestow Princess Catherine and I hope she does just as Princess Diana was bestowed

 

[Zonk]

These are modern times and the Queen can bestow Princess Catherine and I hope she does just as Princess Diana was bestowed

But Princess Diana never made a Princess in her own right. That is a title that the media and we (general public) bestowed upon her. Incorrectly, one might add.

 

[Iluvbertie]

These are modern times and the Queen can bestow Princess Catherine and I hope she does just as Princess Diana was bestowed

Diana was never Princess Diana in her own right - and she would correct anyone who referred to her as such.

She had the same titles that Camilla has now - HRH The Princess Charles, The Princess of Wales, The Countess of Chester, The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duchess of Rothesay etc.

Just as we don't refer to Princess Camilla is was wrong, and still is wrong, to refer to Princess Diana - a title she never held as she wasn't born a princess.

 

[MRSJ]

But if the Queen wanted to, not saying she will, couldn't she issue an LP for Catherine to become a princess without doing so for Princess Michael or the Duchess of Kent- if the right to issue titles/styles is solely the Querns could she not decide ok in this particular case it's Princess Catherine but only her not all wives of sovereigns (or former sovereigns) grandsons

 

[Thena]

Frankly, I' taking this whole thing with a grain of salt. There have been plenty of anonymous palace sources who have claimed things, only for us to find out the real story was something else.

Don't forget that Prince Philip got a dukedom on his marriage in 1947 but didn't become a prince until 1957. If William seriously wants a title of princess for his wife, I suspect Philip will take him aside and talk some sense into him.

 

[Zonk]

But if the Queen wanted to, not saying she will, couldn't she issue an LP for Catherine to become a princess without doing so for Princess Michael or the Duchess of Kent- if the right to issue titles/styles is solely the Querns could she not decide ok in this particular case it's Princess Catherine but only her not all wives of sovereigns (or former sovereigns) grandsons

But the question is why? Why would the Queen issue LP's for the wife of her grandson (before she has even done anything) when many women before her (aunts, cousins in law, daughters in law) have worked very hard during their lifetimes for the BRF. And Kate gets a title out of the box. Makes no sense IMO.

Frankly, I don't think it matters to Kate on whether or not she is in a Princess in her own right or HRH Duchess of Whatever. And I also agree, that this bit of "news" should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[jemagre]

It's safe to assume that if HM creates new LPs to make Catherine a Princess, she would have to (to be fair) create Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine of Kent Princess' in their own right as well..

If it is true I think that this will open a can of worms the family might live to regret. From the controversy as to why Diana was never a princess in her own right to the huge number of women that will have that title in the family. To say nothing of the fact that their wedding is supposed to be low-key due to the economic recession. The title of princess isn't low-key. One must also remember the current push for Beatrice and Eugenie to not be princesses and they were born royal.

I also agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that if this story is true then what does it say about William besides that he is not low-key

 

[yvr girl]

Calling them by their husband's name is just tradition. It could be changed. The Queen wouldn't need to create them princessess in their own right. I don't believe Mary, Marie or Alexandra were created princesses in their own right The UK could do the same thing. It's more modern. Very few younger women would refer to themselves as Mrs. John Smith today.

In reality, it would only change how we refer to Princess Michael. The rest would remain The Duchess of... etc.

 

[Jaya]

Frankly, I' taking this whole thing with a grain of salt. There have been plenty of anonymous palace sources who have claimed things, only for us to find out the real story was something else.

Don't forget that Prince Philip got a dukedom on his marriage in 1947 but didn't become a prince until 1957. If William seriously wants a title of princess for his wife, I suspect Philip will take him aside and talk some sense into him.

Philip was born a Prince of Greece officially by birth and was demoted in rank when he married. I haven't got a clue how anyone can explain that one away.Prince Philip was always a Prince it was just a manner of putting him in his place I think.And this thing with Catherine versus Princess Michael; Princess Michael was divorced and Catherine has nothing in her closet and it begins to sound like where are we going to break the egg in Gulliver's Travels and Lilliput.I suspect Philip will not take him aside at all.

 

[windsorgirl]

A technical question: If HM did not have to issue LPs for Lady Louise or Viscount Severn NOT to be called Princess or Prince, rather just announce that "it was decided....", why could she not issue a similar decision regarding Catherine? Or could she? As I understand it, all titles are at her discretion -- that her word is all it takes. Please advise.

 

[branchg]

A technical question: If HM did not have to issue LPs for Lady Louise or Viscount Severn NOT to be called Princess or Prince, rather just announce that "it was decided....", why could she not issue a similar decision regarding Catherine? Or could she? As I understand it, all titles are at her discretion -- that her word is all it takes. Please advise.

The Queen does not need to issue letters patent allowing Catherine to use the style of "Princess Catherine". As she did with Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, she can simply allow it, since they are Princesses of the UK automatically with marriage.

I do not believe there will be a change in precedent with William's wife. Either she is known as Princess William of Wales or The Duchess/Countess of X with marriage.