Pippa Middleton: May 2011-May 2017

[dbarn67]

I don't really understand people who say that this is no big deal... /QUOTE] I have to say I agree with this standpoint.

 

[Lumutqueen]

That is highly amusing.

 

[NGalitzine]

That is highly amusing.

Me too. The way people are carrying on one would think she had robbed a bank. The French guys who were with her may have done a stupid thing but it seems really over the top to attack Pippa because of their actions.
I wonder if the next time I get a speeding ticket if I can just put the blame on my passenger or at least get them to pay the fine. IMO people need to gain a little perspective on things.

 

[Empress Merel]

And to bring the shootings in Paris/Toulouse into it is just so crass.

It's not. France heightened their security alert due to recent terrorist attacks, it really isn't that crass, is it?

If these people were of other skin color, people wouldn't think it was 'no big deal.' But that's a whole other discussion.

 

[Lumutqueen]

It's not. France heightened their security alert due to recent terrorist attacks, it really isn't that crass, is it?

If these people were of other skin color, people wouldn't think it was 'no big deal.' But that's a whole other discussion.

Well that's handy bring skin colour into the discussion and we've got Pippa into a race row.

These "friends" were carrying a toy gun, which is apparently illegal in France and they will be punished. This has no bearing on Pippa whatsoever, it's not like she'd of asked them before getting in the car "oh do you have any kiddies guns your planning on pointing at those paps following me every where?".

 

[Osipi]

If I was to take a trip to Paris last week, I would not have known about this law against displaying of a weapon fake or not. I'd also bet half a box of donuts that Pippa wasn't aware of this either. Now on the other hand, the two French gentlemen (for want of a better word) who are French and reside in France should have been aware of such a law and unless they've been hiding out under a rock, were well aware of the recent security issues.

Money never can buy brains.

 

[EIIR]

I explained better in my next post; only guns (and other weapons) that look real are illegal.
An obviously fake-looking gun would not present problems.

But the world is full of stupid people, what's obviously fake to me may not be to someone else. Maybe this chap who had the gun in Paris thought it was obviously fake too. If the journalist was laughing with them about it, one would assume it was obviously fake. I just find it hard to believe that the French state might prosecute Pippa when, for all we know, she had no idea this guy had a toy gun on him until he brought it out.

This has all become a complete joke. I saw a headline on a website today that said - 'Pippa Middleton Caught Playing with Guns in Paris'. I mean, please.

 

[Artemisia]

But the world is full of stupid people, what's obviously fake to me may not be to someone else. Maybe this chap who had the gun in Paris thought it was obviously fake too. If the journalist was laughing with them about it, one would assume it was obviously fake. I just find it hard to believe that the French state might prosecute Pippa when, for all we know, she had no idea this guy had a toy gun on him until he brought it out.

Whether Pippa would be prosecuted or not would depend on several points:
- Prior knowledge of the gun
- Intent to be part of illegal, dangerous or potentially dangerous activity
- Intent to cause harm to or endanger third parties
- Deliberately making third parties believe the gun was real and posed danger

- Assuming the gun was fake, if Pippa had no prior knowledge of it and had no intention to take part in an illegal activity of any sort, she would highly unlikely be prosecuted or even cautioned. I should note, however, that if the paparazzi in question were not aware the gun was fake and believed he was in real danger when it was pointed at him, he could file a complaint and it would be upon French authorities to decide who and how was prosecuted. Similarly, if any incident happened because of the gun, all of them would be held responsible.
- If the gun were real, Pippa would be prosecuted whether she knew of its existence or not. If it is proven she didn't, and that she had no intentions to participate in any illegal activity, most likely she would be just fined or cautioned. Basically, in this case she would be responsible for the actions of those whose company she willingly and knowingly shared. If she did know of the guns existence, the actual punishment would depend on prosecutors and any deals they would make with Pippa's lawyers. Assuming no illegal activity was intended on Pippa's part, actual jail sentence would be highly unlikely. In France, the maximum penalty for illicit possession of firearms is seven years prison and a fine. In this particular case, if the gun were real, apart from possession they (the holder of the gun and possibly, the others in the car as well) would be charged with threatening a person's life.
The eventual sentence would also depend on the type of gun; if it were a military one (for example, according to French classifications, a 9mm), the punishment would be much more severe than if it were a civil one (for example, a .357 Magnum).

One more thing concerning gun laws: in France, carrying a firearm (or what can be mistaken for a real firearm) in plain view in a public place is prohibited. However, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed, subject to a valid permit. So, until the young man actually pulled the gun, he wasn't breaking any laws just by carrying it, whether the gun was real or fake (assuming he had permit for the gun, of course).

My brother and cousins are lawyers with pretty high-ranking law firms in France; having lived there for most of my pre-teen and teen years, I know the country's laws pretty well. My wording may not be very accurate because I'm doing a sort of mental French-English translation, but that's basically how the law works. Of course, there are a lot of exceptions; good lawyers (and all those in the car are very much capable to hire the best) would be able to find a lot of loopholes I'm not aware of - unlike my siblings, I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Kataryn]

You are right, IMHO, Artemisia, but I doubt this is about any kind of legal case. And surely nothing will come out of it, prosecutionwise.

But it is fuel to all those Middleton-bashers who don't believe Pippa has a right to some sort of public life. And I bet she thinks so, too (not about her right to, but about her wish to have one, which should be close to nil - only close because as people tend to forget partying is her business).

And where better to learn the "debauched", "sadesque" and colourful sides of partying than in Paris?

 

[Artemisia]

I agree with you. With more facts available now, the incident does appear to have been blown way out of its proportions.
However, I just have to say that Pippa must be a bit more careful about her company in future; she may be a private individual, but her actions, as well as those of other members of the Middleton family, will always have some sort of an effect on the royal family. It's unfair, but true.

 

[Al_bina]

It might seem that Ms Middleton was invited to have fun with. If a girl wants to land an aristocrat, a man from the old-money family or a just rich person, she should be somewhat mindful of her behaviour and very discreet. She should not appear to run around with different blokes. At least that is what I have been told.

 

[EIIR]

I get very uncomfortable when people say things like, 'what's she doing with all those guys on her own'. That comes perilously close to suggesting that Pippa is loose, and I find that completely wrong. In much the same way I found it truly horrendous when people blamed Kate when a photographer took a photo up her skirt - as if she was asking for it. That's disgraceful.

I studied law in the UK, and I know that France has a codified system so it may be different, but to establish someone's guilt mens rea (guilty mind) needs to be established i.e. that she intended to commit a crime. We don't have anywhere near enough evidence to come to that conclusion; but that didn't stop people here condemning her for a disastrous lapse of judgement. For all we know she had no idea this guy had a toy gun before he pulled it out. He apparently is the son of a very high ranking TV executive in France; hardly the kind of person to set anyone's alarm bells ringing.

I'm not willing to condemn Pippa when we really have no idea what happened.

Also, does holding a toy gun inside a privately owned car count as 'a public place'?

 

[Artemisia]

Also, does holding a toy gun inside a privately owned car count as 'a public place'?

No, it doesn't. However, as soon as he pulled out the gun pointed it at a person in plain view of witnesses, he was. Without prior knowledge the gun was fake, everyone had the right to assume it was real and consequently posed a real danger. Obviously, in this case we are dealing with a toy gun and a person who had prior knowledge the gun was fake, which is why no action has so far been taken.

As I said in a previous post, according to French laws, the young wasn't breaking any laws just by carrying it in his car, whether the gun was real or fake. As soon as he pulled it out and especially pointed at a person - that's a whole different story.

You are also right about mens rea in most cases but one; if a crime was committed or was intended to be committed. In that case, French laws differ; if someone was hurt with or because of the gun (whether real or not), Pippa - along with other occupants of the car - would be held accountable as well. The degree of that accountability would depend on whether she knew of the gun, whether it was real or fake, and what her intentions were. Assuming she didn't willingly agree to take part in an illegal activity and had no means of stopping it, she would most likely be cautioned and/or fined, unless people were hurt or in danger of being hurt as a direct result of her actions. If the gun is fake, then assuming she had no prior knowledge of it and no intentions to use it in any illegal activity, she will most probably not be prosecuted in any way.

 

[sndral]

What I am confused about is that Pippa's sister married into the BRF, she did not. Why should Pippa alter her behavior? From all accounts she has always been more outgoing than her very discreet sister and why should she have to change her personality because of her sister's choices? She's young, single and very attractive, why shouldn't she have her version of fun? Being accompanied by 3 handsome (Marcel, esp.,) single rich men would be my idea of a good time at that age, as well. Personally, I would not have been terribly amused when one of them played w/ a fake gun (and @ least in the pix I saw of the muzzle it was obviously fake) but it sounds like the photographer was in on the joke. IME some men do very stupid and juvenile things to catch the attention of an attractive lady, particularly when they percieve that they are in competition w/ other men for her attention, but I don't criticize the other men or the lady for someone else's immaturity.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I get very uncomfortable when people say things like, 'what's she doing with all those guys on her own'. That comes perilously close to suggesting that Pippa is loose, and I find that completely wrong.

Agreed. As I understand it, she was getting a ride to the train station. Who wouldn't grab a ride with friends as opposed to hiring a taxi? What we see here is a particularly feminine form of cattiness: if you don't like a girl, imply that she's loose. I do think that she needs to be more careful about which party invitations she accepts from now on. I really don't think she looked at that comfortable in the photos taken at the party.

What I am confused about is that Pippa's sister married into the BRF, she did not. Why should Pippa alter her behavior?

The same reason why any family members of any public person have to watch their behaviour: there are always people watching and often people with cameras. In this case, the "public person" is a member of the BRF. Those who don't approve of William's choice of bride will take every opportunity to drag Catherine and her family down.

 

[NGalitzine]

The same reason why any family members of any public person have to watch their behaviour: there are always people watching and often people with cameras. In this case, the "public person" is a member of the BRF. Those who don't approve of William's choice of bride will take every opportunity to drag Catherine and her family down.

Perhaps, but I would not expect her to lock herself away just because of other peoples pettiness, prejudice or jealousy. She is young and good looking and quite entitled to have some fun. I doubt her sister or brother in law are so humourless to expect her to give up her life just because of them either.

 

[Al_bina]

Pippa Middleton Gun Scandal -- Could Royal Sis Face Arrest? UPDATE (VIDEO)

 

[Kataryn]

she may be a private individual, but her actions, as well as those of other members of the Middleton family, will always have some sort of an effect on the royal family. It's unfair, but true.

She is in between rock and (what's the other unmovable object?) - she is working in the international party scene as organizer and journalist. So how can she stay aside when hr job asks of her to stay right in the middle or at least close enough to the center to be able to learn from her experiences and to make create use of them?

Can we just forget that she was born to the same parents as some future Princess and Wueen and allow her her professional space? Or should we petition the British parliament or whoever is resonsible to put her on a kind of Civil list in exchange of her giving up her chosen career? And no, I'm not joking!!!

 

[Kataryn]

It might seem that Ms Middleton was invited to have fun with. If a girl wants to land an aristocrat, a man from the old-money family or a just rich person, she should be somewhat mindful of her behaviour and very discreet. She should not appear to run around with different blokes. At least that is what I have been told.

You really make me curious. Did you manage to land such a person that way? Or anyone of your acquaintance? Does it still works this way? And where? I would be really gratefiul, Al Bina, to learn more.

 

[Artemisia]

I don't mean to be nasty, but if we forget she was born to the same parents as the future Queen of the United Kingdom, we would have never ever heard Pippa's name. And I strongly doubt she would be working in the international party scene or would have the same kind of access and connections she enjoys now.

Her actions will always have effect on her sister's reputation. It isn't fair, it shouldn't be that way in an ideal word, but it's the truth.
Even the unfortunate (and rather misleading) headlines like "Duchess of Cambridge's sister to be arrested?" - they subconsciously leave a negative feeling.

I have nothing against Kate or Pippa; I like them both. It's just plain statement of facts as I see them.

 

[Osipi]

OK... its a given that the gun was a fake and the guys and photographer were horsing around. All I know that with what I've read about paps hounding celebrities and the sometimes hostile reactions some celebrities have shown in the past, if I happened to be a bystander at that particular moment and saw Pippa and friends amid a crowd of photographers and one pulled a gun or what appeared to be a gun, I'd be ducking for cover.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I don't think that she should 'lock herself away' either. She just needs to be careful; i.e. don't go to parties that feature dwarves, strippers, and hints of sado-masochism.

Perhaps, but I would not expect her to lock herself away just because of other peoples pettiness, prejudice or jealousy. She is young and good looking and quite entitled to have some fun.

 

[Kataryn]

I don't think that she should 'lock herself away' either. She just needs to be careful; i.e. don't go to parties that feature dwarves, strippers, and hints of sado-masochism.

Isn't that streamline when you do a "18th century"- bash? I mean the (British) Georgians and (French) Regence-people were much more debauched/open-minded than most people are nowadays and - again- where's the beef?

 

[soapstar]

Pippa is not going to be questioned by Paris Police.

"We don't know the circumstances in which these photographs were taken," a source said.

"But we cannot launch an inquiry based simply on photographs that have appeared online and in the press. There would need to be a witness but at the moment there is nothing.

"To launch an investigation, it would be necessary for there to have been a complaint or something would need to have presented itself to police.

"A photograph cannot launch an investigation. In this case, there are just the photographs. No one was injured and nothing more happened. There is nothing to this affair, at the moment, as far as police are concerned."

Pippa Middleton Not To Be Questioned By Paris Police About Gun Pictures Unless Formal Complaint Made

 

[Kataryn]

Much Ado about Nothing

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Well, she lucked out on that one. Pippa is not a royal, therefore her antics have nothing to to with the BRF or her sister in the capacity of membership in the BRF.

 

[Zonk]

A reminder that The Royal Forums is the place where members of various races, religions, ethnicity as well as various AGES converse about royalty and certain aspects of royal life (i.e. Catherine's sister).

So let's watch the foul language please.

 

[Baroness of Books]

OK... its a given that the gun was a fake and the guys and photographer were horsing around. All I know that with what I've read about paps hounding celebrities and the sometimes hostile reactions some celebrities have shown in the past, if I happened to be a bystander at that particular moment and saw Pippa and friends amid a crowd of photographers and one pulled a gun or what appeared to be a gun, I'd be ducking for cover.

Agreed; that would most likely be my reaction as well. Since as a bystander I wasn't in on the joke that this was a fake gun, my initial assumption would be that someone was pulling out a weapon and threatening another person, and most likely start firing indiscriminately in the crowd. You bet I'd be ducking for cover!

And, Kataryn, the expression you're referring to is "caught between a rock and a hard place."

I don't really understand people who say that this is no big deal. Fact remains that pointing a gun at people, in public is such a poor joke.

Love it; gave me the best laugh of the day!

 

[ladynj]

Dwarves, chastity belts and why Pippa's missing the one man who could rein her in | Mail Online

Explains more about Pippa and the Frenchmen - as well as George ( just a good friend) and what she needs is someone like Alex, who would say no to her.

 

[Princess of Durham]

And the DM is soooo in the know!