Pippa Middleton: May 2011-May 2017

[Baroness of Books]

The rank of Duchess is not bad at all for the Middletons.

Of course, and for anyone in general, but we were just discussing the equality of rank and title between Kate and Pippa if Pippa ever married George Percy.

 

[Grandma828]

I just hope that it is a love match if they marry.

 

[Kataryn]

The rank of Duchess is not bad at all for the Middletons.

It is not bad for anyone, even Beatrice and Eugenie would be considered to have made advantageous marriages on marrying a duke as times are over where they could expect a Royal husband.

I think the difficulty in really understand what the title means is the "avalanche" of historical novels and romance over the last decade which feature a duke as hero. When Georgette Heyer wrote her historicals in the 20ties, it was absolutely clear that a duke was extremely hard to come by. But nowadays a duke is a must and as most authors don't care one bit for research into the rules of British aristocracy, their plots are likewise. So no wonder people ask here and it's a real good think they do, for it shows real interest in the topic.

As for being in the line of succession. Only a few British nobles are in line because it is a rather modern custom for British princesses to marry into the British aristocracy (Louise, Duchess of Argyll, Louise, Duchess of Fife, Mary Countess of Harewood) or have their husbands granted nobility
and a peerage (Margaret, Countess of Snowdon). Anne eg, refused even that, so her children are not Royal and don't belong to the aristocracy.

Apart from the noble children of Royal dukes (Kent, Gloucester) the next noble in line is the current Earl of Harewood at position 47, I think, at the moment, after Isla Philips was born.

 

[principessa]

Is George Percy related to this Thomas Percy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Percy_(Gunpowder_Plot)

 

[Artemisia]

Yes, he is. Both are descendants of Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland.
Thomas Percy was the 4th Earl's great-grandson, whereas George Percy is the 4th Earl's (female-line) 16th great-grandson, making them third cousins 12th times removed.

George Percy's descent from the 4th Earl of Northumberland:
- Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland
- Henry Percy, 5th Earl of Northumberland
- Sir Thomas Percy
- Henry Percy, 8th Earl of Northumberland
- Henry Percy, 9th Earl of Northumberland
- Algernon Percy, 10th Earl of Northumberland
- Josceline Percy, 11th Earl of Northumberland
- Elizabeth Percy, Duchess of Somerset
- Algernon Seymour, 7th Duke of Somerset
- Elizabeth Percy, 2nd Baroness Percy
- Algernon Percy, 1st Earl of Beverley
- George Percy, 5th Duke of Northumberland
- Algernon Percy, 6th Duke of Northumberland
- Henry Percy, 7th Duke of Northumberland
- Alan Percy, 8th Duke of Northumberland
- Hugh Percy, 10th Duke of Northumberland
- Ralph Percy, 12th Duke of Northumberland
- George, Earl Percy

 

[Mirabel]

Just out of curiosity, who's the better catch- George Percy or Hugh Grosvenor?

George has been described as the UK's most eligible bachelor, but Hugh's estate is even richer, isn't it?

 

[Artemisia]

Just out of curiosity, who's the better catch- George Percy or Hugh Grosvenor?

George has been described as the UK's most eligible bachelor, but Hugh's estate is even richer, isn't it?

From strictly financial point of view, definitely Hugh Grosvenor. Gerald Grosvenor, 6th Duke of Westminster, is one of the richest people in the United Kingdom, and the richest British person: Hugh, as his only son, will inherit the bulk of the fortune, although Tamara, Edwina and Viola will get sizeable fortunes (trust funds) as well. Hugh will be a billionaire, whereas George will be "only" a multi-millionaire and "merely" 250th wealthiest person in Britain.
Moreover, as a descendant of George II, Hugh Grosvenor is also in the Line of Succession to the British Throne, albeit very far down - about 1900th.

From peerage point of view, George Percy wins hands down. Few nobles can rival the ancestry and breeding of the Dukes of Northumberland, even if they are not in the line of succession. The title Duke of Westminster is a relatively recent one, having been created by Queen Victoria in 1874. The title of the Dukes of Northumberland is more than three century older, having been created (in its first creation) back in 1551. Since 1766 (the third creation of the title), it has belonged to the House of Percy which held the title of Earl of Northumberland since 14th century.

All in all, either of the young men wouldn't be a bad match at all. For anyone.

 

[EIIR]

Certainly the Grosvenors are incredibly wealthy - much, much wealthier than the Royal Family. The Duke of Westminster is apparently worth more than £7billion, at today's exchange rate that's more than $11billion USD. He owns large chunks of the poshest bits of London so his fortune is growing all the time essentially.

Via the Grosvenors you'd also get a van Cutsem connection. In addition, Lady Edwina Grosvenor is married to the TV presenter Dan Snow who produces lots of super interesting historical documentaries for the BBC, so Christmases are never likely to be boring.

Hugh Grosvenor is only 6 years younger than me. Too much?

 

[Mirabel]

All in all, either of the young men wouldn't be a bad match at all. For anyone.

I can see that!
Thanks for the information.

 

[countess felicitas]

Funny, the papers' opinion is that at the moment, what Carol Middleton appears to want is a double Duchess situation for her daughters.
As Pippa Middleton And George Percy Join Will and Kate's Ski Trip, Can Carole Pull of the Duchess Double? - The Daily Beast
Well, everybody agree that George Percy is the very eligible bachelor.
But what is the situation in case of the British nobility, will only George inherit all? How about his siblings?

So, the whole story is - they are an item, they are not an item, they are...they are not . Only the two know...

 

[Mirabel]

If Carole Middleton is half the schemer the papers make out, she must be a regular Machiavelli!
In that case, she is wasted at Party Pieces, and the Secret Service should grab her.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Ah, Mirabel, your wit has been sorely missed!!!

 

[Artemisia]

If Carole Middleton is half the schemer the papers make out, she must be a regular Machiavelli!
In that case, she is wasted at Party Pieces, and the Secret Service should grab her.

Party Pieces would be a perfect cover though: innocent-looking housewife with a children-themed business - perfect!

 

[EIIR]

If Carole Middleton is half the schemer the papers make out, she must be a regular Machiavelli!
In that case, she is wasted at Party Pieces, and the Secret Service should grab her.

How do you know they haven't? They wouldn't be much of a 'secret' service if we all knew about it would they?

 

[Artemisia]

Pippa joined by Percy on Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's romantic ski reunion, fuelling rumours Kate's sister and former flame are more than close friends

The sister of the Duchess of Cambridge joined Kate and Prince William, as well as her parents, brother James, and close friend George Percy in the Trois Vallees. The appearance on the break of Earl Percy, heir to the £300million fortune of his father, the Duke of Northumberland, is likely to fuel rumours that the former couple could be getting back together.

 

[Lenora]

Pippa joined by Percy on Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's romantic ski reunion, fuelling rumours Kate's sister and former flame are more than close friends

In the last pic George seemed to look like Prince Harry.
Most people's comments in the paper are quite cynical, the Middletons have been named by someone " modern Boleyns", well I think sometimes everything could be turned in a black light by journalists.

 

[Mirabel]

I figure George Percy has fended off his share of fortune and title hunters at this point. He can probably spot one a mile away.
He seems to like Pippa enough to disregard all the hostility, so we'll see what happens next.

 

[Baroness of Books]

In the last pic George seemed to look like Prince Harry.
Most people's comments in the paper are quite cynical, the Middletons have been named by someone " modern Boleyns", well I think sometimes everything could be turned in a black light by journalists.

Ouch, modern Boleyns! Why don't they just compare them to the Woodvilles as well, the infamous family of Edward IV's queen, Elizabeth.

 

[NGalitzine]

Ouch, modern Boleyns! Why don't they just compare them to the Woodvilles as well, the infamous family of Edward IV's queen, Elizabeth.

Because the writers and the readers of the DM would have no idea who the Woodvilles are. Without the TV series The Tudors many of them would have no idea who the Boleyns are either.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Ah, I knew I should have put the emoticon for tongue in cheek. I know, the Woodvilles are an esoteric family and I'm sure the majority of people (except for here, most likely) wouldn't know who they were, let alone who they were related to!

 

[Kataryn]

Ouch, modern Boleyns! Why don't they just compare them to the Woodvilles as well, the infamous family of Edward IV's queen, Elizabeth.

Because the Woodvilles were the children of Jacquetta of Luxembourg, who was the widow of Royal Prince John, Duke of Bedford and closely related to the Royal Houses of France and Bohemia. Jacquetta herself was a descendant of Henry III. of England. Her sister Catherine was duchess of Britanny, her sister Isabelle Countess of Guise and Maine and mother-in-law of the duke of Nemour. Jacquetta's brother Louis was constable of France and married to a princess of Savoy whose sister was queen consort of France. Their granddaughter Marie de Luxembourg was as duchess of Guise the grandmother of Mary Queen of Scots.

Here's an interesting article on her: JACQUETTA OF LUXEMBOURG, DUCHESS OF BEDFORD (C. 1416

I doubt you can compare the Middletons with the Woodvilles as these were interrelated to the highest families of France, Italy, England and the German empire (which was reigned at that time by the Luxembourg) and who married into the British aristocracy.

 

[Nice Nofret]

It should be fairly easy for James to marry the daughter of a Duke or Earl .. there are enought noble daughters arround but to catch an heiress would be quite another matter (like his sisters did or in Pippas case, beeing maybe at the brink of it)

If Carol can arrange for one daughter to marry the future king, and Pippa a future duke, it should be as easy to find some rich noble wife for James. (this is ironic)

What I want to say is simple: if modern life only would work that way ...we all would live a life of plenty and happiness

To make it clear: NO, I don't believe it is 'Carols' doing - she couldn't do a thing about it - she can wish for - but we all know how little or twisted our wishes - if ever - do come true.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Because the Woodvilles were the children of Jacquetta of Luxembourg, who was the widow of Royal Prince John, Duke of Bedford and closely related to the Royal Houses of France and Bohemia. Jacquetta herself was a descendant of Henry III. of England. Her sister Catherine was duchess of Britanny, her sister Isabelle Countess of Guise and Maine and mother-in-law of the duke of Nemour. Jacquetta's brother Louis was constable of France and married to a princess of Savoy whose sister was queen consort of France. Their granddaughter Marie de Luxembourg was as duchess of Guise the grandmother of Mary Queen of Scots.

Here's an interesting article on her: JACQUETTA OF LUXEMBOURG, DUCHESS OF BEDFORD (C. 1416

I doubt you can compare the Middletons with the Woodvilles as these were interrelated to the highest families of France, Italy, England and the German empire (which was reigned at that time by the Luxembourg) and who married into the British aristocracy.

Thank you for the link on Jacquetta, Duchess of Bedford, but actually I knew about her distinguished lineage as well as her first marriage into the Lancastrian royal house. My comparison was not made on that basis, though, but on the Woodville siblings who intermarried into many of the noble families of England and became quite powerful after Elizabeth Woodville's marriage to Edward IV. Richard Woodville also became Earl Rivers after Edward's marriage to his daughter, so significant honors were poured upon the family as a result of such a prestigious connection - much like the Boleyns. That actually was the basis of my comparison.

 

[Artemisia]

Not to mention, Anne Boleyn didn't come from an undistinguished family either; apart from coming from the powerful Norfolk family, she counted several English and Spanish (Castilian) Monarchs among her ancestors.


Pippa Middleton wears period drama-inspired fancy dress to celebrate Viscount Arthur de Soultrait's birthday

Pippa Middelton got dressed up for a lavish birthday celebration in Paris last night. The sister of the Duchess Of Cambridge, Kate Middleton, headed to the party in the French capital wearing fancy dress in keeping with the theme of the do, which appeared to be based on fashions from centuries ago. Pippa, 28, was one of many guests at the birthday of young fashion label owner Arthur de Soultrait.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Now, I've never seen the word "bussle" spelled like that in the headline; I've always known it as a "bustle." Typo, perhaps? Anyway, Pippa looks cute; I like the top of her outfit but not the leather jacket; I guess she chose to wear leggings to complete the costume instead of the skirt which would have been more fitting. Thanks for the article, Artemisia.

 

[Artemisia]

Spell-check and DM have never been on best terms.
I don't particularly like Pippa's outfit; it looks really cheap and the leggings are a bit out of place given the party's theme.
Now, the lady in this picture wouldn't look out of place in a period drama; absolutely gorgeous ensemble, from hair to the elaborate gown!

 

[Baroness of Books]

That's the ex-proofreader in me; I'm always catching the typos! And that is a lovely costume and I especially like how the lady did her hair with that ornament in it. The gent with the sunglasses and sneakers is also giving a different spin on the period costume!

 

[Kataryn]

I once had a top like that and it was worn with leggings and then a skirt was put over it to make the ensemble complete. We don't know when the pics were taken but it is possible that Pippa rrived with the skirt and put it off after the party to head out to a more modern venue.

 

[Baroness of Books]

That's a possibility; it would have been nice to see a picture with her in full costume if that were the case. But a picture of her in skintight leggings would get more publicity, I'm sure!

 

[Lenora]

That's a possibility; it would have been nice to see a picture with her in full costume if that were the case. But a picture of her in skintight leggings would get more publicity, I'm sure!

I agree. She is young and is the sister of the future Queen, of course she wants to gain some profit from all the media fuss around her.It's not easy, but maybe she will be observed in this way by a suitable candidate, a millionaire or noble, or even a noble rich desirable man,lol...