My Pot-au-Feu with Prince William

[Royal Fan]

I Hear Prince hilip was proud of him for it good on him for knowing his own mind.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If you're a soldier, you fight in war zones. If you don't, you're a man in a costume. Simple as. I could do what William has done and it wouldn't make me a soldier would it?

In a word - YES.

The job of soldier (or other serviceman) is far more than serving in war zones.

The majority of the British army at the moment isn't serving in a war zone but they are still doing a necessary job - getting ready, regrouping from having been, training those who will go (a very very important job and one that both William and Harry will have been doing with their troops even though they themselves can't go), administering the pay and equipment and making sure that it gets there (all those jobs are done by soldiers).

The soldiers who stand guard at BP are serving soldiers and also have a duty to perform, as do those whose current job is to simply guard the military posts where decisions are being made or other troops are being trained to go and fight. Many of these troops have never seen 'active' service in a war zone but they are professional servicemen and are entitled to be regarded as such.

 

[kpusa1981]

Skydragon, what is this your opinon is as follows I feel they are using the 'cover' of William to make it more acceptable. Is it because he is doing such a short time in the miitary or navy?

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I must be missing something. I don't understand why someone can't lay a wreath on the cenotaph if they are not/have not been a serving member of the armed forces.

And as for Edward, I think it must have taken courage to pull out of the course he did not want to be doing.

I don't mean to pass judgement. I respect Edward for the personal choices he made. He pulled out of it, probably because it wasn't suited for him and I respect him for pulling out before he got in more entangled, if that makes sense. I just meant that Edward and William's cases are distinct, because Sam/beatrixfan had implied they are similar.

Having said that, Sam is entitled to his opinion, and as always his "stirring the pot" keeps us on our toes. But I maintain my stance.... Working soldier is a working soldier, regardless of war zone service, just as working sailor or working airman regardless of sea time or flying planes.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I'm not stirring the pot, I'm just stating an opinion. One's that unpopular but I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. Princess Anne wears a uniform when she really shouldn't but her work with the Armed Forces might just make it permissable in her case. As for William, he's done nothing in the Army. He has no job, he has no goal, he has no task - maybe they are using William as a cover for Edward. Which means Sophie's out of a job.

 

[kpusa1981]

BeatrixFan, it is not true that William has done nothing in the Army. He has done and passed all training courses. He has done all training that goes along his occupation in the Army.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Ok then he's a trainee. And a trainee shouldn't lay a wreath when more experienced veterans have a bigger cause to do so. He's a boy playing VIP - it's very sad to watch.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Well, every VIP is a trainee in the beginning. We all start out as boys and girls. William has to start somewhere.

But, honestly, Sam, I'm not trying to persist the argument. I get that you have your way of perceiving the situation. So I and many others don't agree exactly....

I will grant you that William has a long way to go before he will be taken seriously. That much I grant you.

 

[kpusa1981]

Trainee in what since. Is it that a 2nd Lt is considered to be a training rank even when you have finished your specialist training. Is that right? So is William still techically a trainee or not. Even if he is still trainee I do not see anything worng with him laying a wreath since he is in the Army.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Ok then he's a trainee. And a trainee shouldn't lay a wreath when more experienced veterans have a bigger cause to do so. He's a boy playing VIP - it's very sad to watch.

I want to get this clear - in your opinion ALL the graduates from Sandhurst aren't soldiers until they have been in a war zone - right.

I think that you would be in the vast minority in that view.

ALL the graduates of Sandhurst get the same pay from the British government (public taxes) with only those actually serving getting a bit extra called 'danger money' but on return to Britian their pay returns to their pre-service rate (until they get promotion).

In short William is getting paid the same as any other graduate who graduated on the same day as him, who isn't currently serving in a war zone (and I doubt if all of them have served yet). Those who are currently serving will return to the same pay level as William when they return.

William has completed the initial training as a commissioned officer (something which the vast majority of soldiers in the field haven't done as they aren't commissioned officers and the training is harder for officers), and then, like most other officers done the next part of the training to serve in his chosen unit.

His job now is to train his men and to do other jobs on the base to assist and back up those who are serving in a war zone.

I would really like to know why you think that a trained officer who is being paid as an officer and doing officer's duties isn't a soldier when they are doing the job of a soldier? Soldiers actually spend the vast majority of their service time in non war zones and many never actually go to a war zone. As a British citizen you are paying a lot of soldiers to be soldiers who, in your opinion, aren't actually soldiers.

I think you need to write to your government with your definition of a soldier and insist that only those who are actually serving in war zones be paid like soldiers and referred to as soldiers while those who are training to go, arent' paid or called soldiers. William and Harry are training others to go because the government (the same one that is paying them as officers by the way) has said that they can't go.


You definition of a soldier is very, very, very, very narrow and excludes the majority of the army, by the way.

According to figures available in 2006 8,000 British soldiers were in Iraq and others serving elsewhere but that was the largest deployment but there were 109,000 soldiers. That would mean that quite a large percentage weren't in war zones and a reasonable percentage of that number wouldn't have seen any service in a war zone at that time due to the fact that since they joined their unit that unit hadn't been deployed to a war zone. As the numbers are reduced in Iraq the percentage not being deployed will increase but the size of the army and the work of the army will continue with all these non-soldiers getting paid as soldiers but...

William is a serving officer in the army - you do need to accept that fact and accept the fact that having that position makes him a soldier. Any other definition just defies logic and insults all those men and women who are in your country's army but who haven't seen service in a war zone and may never do so.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Ok, I'm in the minority. I'm used to that. I don't need to accept anything, my opinion is that he isn't a real soldier and I'm sticking to that.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Ok, I'm in the minority. I'm used to that. I don't need to accept anything, my opinion is that he isn't a real soldier and I'm sticking to that.

So in your opinion the majority of the British army aren't real soldiers?

How strange??

 

[Royal Fan]

I Do Respect Your Opinion Beatrix Fan and hope you Respect mine as well

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Come on, Sam, you know everyone here loves you. Lots of us are in the minority sometimes. It happens to me all the time. It's no biggie. We just dust off, stand up, and keep posting.

 

[wbenson]

"Soldier" isn't a definition by opinion, though. It's defined by law. You either are in the army or you aren't. He is. Therefore, he is a soldier.

 

[Polly]

BeatrixFan, you sound like one of those judges from Australian/ American Princess!

I don't know what Australian/American Princess is, Australian, or who they actually are (???) but I do think that BeatrixFan has a point or two.

For example, if I were asked if I had an opinion on Prince Charles' personality and interests, I could give one. This is not true of William. I don't dislike him at all as I have no reason to do so, but I do think that one's mid-twenties is a good time to begin to establish a persona and to develop a response to his country's pre-occupations and interests.

I truly believe that his grandmama is a remarkable and honourable and exemplary woman. She is, but, an icon of C20, and I believe that it's time now for William to start to flaunt his personal colours and abilities and build a personal rapport with the nation, rather than relying on his inherited position, and for many, enduring goodwill because he's his mother's son.

 

[Polly]

I neglected to add that I make a mean pot au feu in winter, but only if 8 - 10 diners are expected. Simple and easy, yet glorious food. Nice analogy, Beatrixfan.

 

[Skydragon]

Edward did not complete training. William graduated from all his training, first the basic officers' training at Sandhurst, then occupational training with tanks and weapons. William is now a working soldier. Edward just did some officer program while at Oxford or something (was it Cambridge?) Anyway, he did not even finish that program..... so, it's different.

Let's be fair, Edward completed and gained his commission from Sandhurst, he couldn't hack it in the regiment he chose, resigned his commission but was a full army officer.

 

[Skydragon]

Until now, the Royals have laid their wreaths based on their military record and that's why Edward has never laid a wreath before. Suddenly he's laying one alongside William - why? William and Harry haven't seen active military service and they never will. Whilst their colleagues have been fighting, they've been parting - to have William (who can never fight we're told) laying a wreath is as much as insult to his colleagues as it is for Tony Blair to lay a wreath. .

Although I agree wholeheartedly with your view of William being as boring as watching paint dry....

The laying of wreaths and everything else to do with the services at the Cenotaph and the festival of remembrance, is to do with remembering the dead, injured, survivors and families of all and any of the men and women who have been involved in any of the services. It doesn't matter whether the people laying the wreaths have been involved in combat, or even in the forces.

William has lost a few friends in the current conflicts and that alone gave him the right to lay a wreath.

The whole spectacle is so that everyone remembers the sacrifices made for us.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Let's be fair, Edward completed and gained his commission from Sandhurst, he couldn't hack it in the regiment he chose, resigned his commission but was a full army officer.

I wasn't meaning to be unfair. I didn't know he trained and completed Sandhurst training. I thought that Royal Marines stuff was actually an officer program while he was at university, like the US ROTC program. But obviously, I was wrong. Thank you for explaining the actuality.

My only reason for picking on Edward (didn't really mean to pick on him, but I guess I did) was just to point out the difference between his situation and William's situation.... I don't mean anything against Edward. I like him.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Although I agree wholeheartedly with your view of William being as boring as watching paint dry....

The laying of wreaths and everything else to do with the services at the Cenotaph and the festival of remembrance, is to do with remembering the dead, injured, survivors and families of all and any of the men and women who have been involved in any of the services. It doesn't matter whether the people laying the wreaths have been involved in combat, or even in the forces.

William has lost a few friends in the current conflicts and that alone gave him the right to lay a wreath.

The whole spectacle is so that everyone remembers the sacrifices made for us.

So why was William "No-Service" Wales allowed to remember his friends when injured soldiers who asked to march in the procession were denied the opportunity? And if he's so keen to remember them, why was he partying in Boujis whilst they were being shot and blown up? This is precisely why I dislike this bloke so much - today he tried to pretend he was a real Royal coping with the ceremonial but we all know what he was actually doing whilst his 'friends' were serving their country properly.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I'm sorry, Sam. I completely respect your opinions and many times I agree with you, sometimes completely and more often just a tiny bit. But this time, your opinion just baffles me. What do you mean, we know what he was really doing? He was not really laying a wreath and standing on ceremony? It looked like he actually was! Unless William has the magical power to be in multiple places at a single moment, I fail to understand you this time....

 

[Skydragon]

So why was William "No-Service" Wales allowed to remember his friends when injured soldiers who asked to march in the procession were denied the opportunity? And if he's so keen to remember them, why was he partying in Boujis whilst they were being shot and blown up? This is precisely why I dislike this bloke so much - today he tried to pretend he was a real Royal coping with the ceremonial but we all know what he was actually doing whilst his 'friends' were serving their country properly.

I quite agree with you over the decision to ban some of our injured soldiers from taking part! One of the 'official' reasons was that they might hold up the speed of the parade, because the parade is only allocated a certain amount of time. As we saw from todays parade, when the bandsmen had finished their music but the parade was still shuffling past.

William couldn't possibly have known that while he was out partying, his friends were getting killed, just as none of us can put our lives on hold 'in case'. I do believe that he and Harry should be showing more restraint than they are and the sooner they are moved on, the better.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I'm not talking about today Ashleigh, I'm talking about those nights he's been clubbing whilst his colleagues have been fighting. If he had a desk job in the army it wouldn't be quite as bad although I'd still question his wreath-laying but he seems to train by day and party by night. No-one's asking him to live the life of a nun but come on, he shows a complete lack of dis-respect for his colleagues but when it suits his media image, he's portrayed as wonder boy and he laps it up.

 

[GovGen]

There should be no reason why William (and Harry) can't be sent to Afghanistan or Iraq and do military support work within the safety of the main bases, rather than wasting time at regiment bases in Britain. Yes, they are probably not doing legitimate work at their current home-based postings, otherwise they would be shown and publicised doing work that is in direct support to the British operations abroad.
Instead, he is in the military just to get familiarized with the various branches that he will someday be the symbolic 'head of'. A rather lame and a waste of time, imo.
As in the future, he will look as pretentious as his father does when he lays down a wreath in respect of war veterans, wearing a string of largley unearned medals, and pinned to a suit lapel no less!!

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

I'm not talking about today Ashleigh, I'm talking about those nights he's been clubbing whilst his colleagues have been fighting. If he had a desk job in the army it wouldn't be quite as bad although I'd still question his wreath-laying but he seems to train by day and party by night. No-one's asking him to live the life of a nun but come on, he shows a complete lack of dis-respect for his colleagues but when it suits his media image, he's portrayed as wonder boy and he laps it up.

Ok.... I understand what you are saying. I respectfully disagree, but I understand. If it is fair to say William is being disrespectful by having a life while other soldiers are fighting, then it's fair to say I am disrespectful too. I am not in Iraq either. I was in the navy from 1995 until just before the Iraq deployments began (for the US, that is) in 2001, and not by choice did I leave. I was honorably discharged but it was also a medical discharge. I consider myself lucky, but at the same time, there is a feeling of why I was so lucky whereas others were not and had to go to Iraq. I think it's possible Prince William and Prince Harry have the same kind of thoughts. Yet are they to stop living simply because they are "lucky" enough to be princes and thus "too special" or too high-risk or something, whatever the Defense Ministry says? And I also don't understand what is hypocritical about them showing respect for those who are dead from WWI through the present war. If they are hypocritical for that, then most of the royal family and the prime ministers are all hypocritical as well. I don't see it as hypocrisy, though. It's just showing respect. And respect is respect. There is nothing wrong with anyone putting a wreath down in honor of the war dead. People have done it around the world today. The families & friends of the war dead, the heads of state, many different people with varying experience, and probably most of them having not served in a war zone.

 

[BeatrixFan]

But other people living ordinary lives are not pretending to be serious soldiers one minute and being party animals the next.

 

[Elspeth]

I think military men do sometimes have a reputation for living life to the full, including having a fairly riotous social life. However, I agree that William and Harry should be somewhat more mindful of their image since they're army officers during a time when troops are deployed in a war zone. I'm sure William is doing more with his life than hanging around clubs and getting drunk, but that's what shows up in the papers and it gives people the impression that it's all he's doing. The princes seem to be being let down by their PR people at the moment if they really think they can carry on the way they're going and not end up being heavily criticised for it.

 

[Skydragon]

I wasn't meaning to be unfair. I didn't know he trained and completed Sandhurst training. I thought that Royal Marines stuff was actually an officer program while he was at university, like the US ROTC program. But obviously, I was wrong. Thank you for explaining the actuality.

I didn't mean to sound as if I was telling you off! It was of course Lympstone that he gained his commision, he survived a few months when he went on to commando training but because he didn't complete their training course, he failed to earn the coveted green beret. Although he signed up for 5 years in the Marines, he left after 3.

 

[BeatrixFan]

And as I thought, William's become the star of the show with the focus on him and not the fallen. Well done Windsors, you really know how to cock it up royally.