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  #741  
Old 03-17-2018, 11:29 AM
Majesty
 
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I think that nowadays generally it is unlikely that a future monarch will choose to use a different name, athough that was common enough years ago. So if there is a name like Victoria or Elizabeth which IS particularly associated with a queen, then its possilbe that the RF may feel it should go to a princess who will be queen...
If Charlotte had been the eldest child of W and kate, and they had been considering Victoria, it mgit have been felt that it was a very suitable name for a queen, Victoria II, and so they might not want Harry to use it if HE had had a daughter round the same time...
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  #742  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Personally I don't think the RF "reserves" names, especially for future monarchs. There's no guarantee the monarch would use the name reserved for them. Albert Edward Prince of Wales thwarted Queen Victoria's wish for a King Albert by becoming Edward VII and Albert Duke of York became George VI.

I'd like to see another Victoria but I agree with HereditaryPrincess - they may regard it as too "heavy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think that nowadays generally it is unlikely that a future monarch will choose to use a different name, athough that was common enough years ago. So if there is a name like Victoria or Elizabeth which IS particularly associated with a queen, then its possilbe that the RF may feel it should go to a princess who will be queen...
If Charlotte had been the eldest child of W and kate, and they had been considering Victoria, it mgit have been felt that it was a very suitable name for a queen, Victoria II, and so they might not want Harry to use it if HE had had a daughter round the same time...
This is a misconception; it was never common for British monarchs to use a name other than their first given name as the name they reigned under - in all of British history, only four monarchs (Robert III of Scotland, Queen Victoria, Edward VII, and George VI) have done so; Robert because his given name was John and he wanted to disassociate himself with John Balliol, Victoria and Edward because they both had double barreled names and chose to use their second name instead, and George VI because he wished to maintain a link with his father.
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  #743  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:53 PM
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In my earlier post I was referring to the situation when the present Queen was born.

Her father was not the heir to the throne and there was every reason to expect that Prince Edward, the heir, would marry and have children who would be in the direct line of succession.

So as I said, the name Elizabeth was not "reserved" for the direct line.
  #744  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:04 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frideswide View Post
In my earlier post I was referring to the situation when the present Queen was born.

Her father was not the heir to the throne and there was every reason to expect that Prince Edward, the heir, would marry and have children who would be in the direct line of succession.

So as I said, the name Elizabeth was not "reserved" for the direct line.
TRue she wasn't in the direct line but I think she was called Elizabeth after her mother.. and of course Alexandra and Mary after the previous queens.
I honestly feel that even in 1926, there was a bit of doubt among the RF that Edward/David was going to make a suitable marriage.. and produce heirs.
  #745  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:19 PM
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Personally I'd like to see the BRF expand the pool of names for future monarchs to include the names of family members who weren't monarchs themselves, especially for daughters. A Queen (Regnant) Caroline or Catherine or Diana, for example, instead of limiting themselves to Mary, Elizabeth, Anne, or Victoria.

But I doubt they'll ask for my opinion.
  #746  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:22 PM
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well unlikey there will be a queen regnant for a long time.. not unless George's first child is a daughter.. and as he's only 4.....
  #747  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Not likely to happen unless the queen were to pass on...
I think the RF gave Victoria a rest for a time because there were literaly about a dozen daugthers and grand-daugthers with the name.. and maybe they got sick of it or thought of it as very old fashioned..
Possibly now though it might b time for a revival and if Kate has another girl, she might be Princess Victoira of Cambridge.
But if Harry has a daughter she'll problaby have Elizabeth as a second name as well....
Indeed but Frideswide implied that Elizabeth was not 'reserved' unlike Victoria (in my opinion both Victoria and Elizabeth are the most likely options if George would have a daughter as his first child; and less likely options for other family members). However, with the additional explanation I understand.

Indeed at that time Elizabeth wasn't picked because she was going to be be queen (however, she was the first in line in her generation, just like Amalia currently is in Luxembourg - so has a more regal name than her younger brother) - so I assume they did consider it. However, now she has been queen for such a long period of time, I'd say that both Victoria and Elizabeth are now considered queen names.
  #748  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:35 PM
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I think Victoria can be used if Catherine has a girl. It’s going to be a long time before any of George’s children are on the throne.

George can easily have a sister Victoria and still use the name for his children.
  #749  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well unlikey there will be a queen regnant for a long time.. not unless George's first child is a daughter.. and as he's only 4.....
Some forums are already choosing a wife for him so I guess we may as well name the children too!
  #750  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:43 PM
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No, not even in the extended family, but I think it may have as much to do with the fact that the queen is alive. Sometimes people don't like using the name of a living person as a first name. It may have been thought too much to put on a child, to name her for the queen. Naming a child for Victoria who has been dead for over a hundred years is another matter.

I don't know if Victoria or Elizabeth is reserved for a future queen. But I do think if either had been used for a daughter, it would have been their first daughter. Charlotte was the spare to the throne. I don't see Harry using Elizabeth as a first name, not because he may want to reserve it for George, but because his grandmother will likely be alive.

Honestly I think using Elizabeth for Charlotte's middle name had as much to do with tradition as it did with the queen. And by that I mean Middleton tradition. Though Elizabeth is assumed to be for the queen, its also for Kate.

We have:

Carole Elizabeth
Catherine Elizabeth
Charlotte Elizabeth

All three women the eldest daughters. Elizabeth being the name of Carole's grandmother.

I know decades from now, but would be lovely to see Charltote having a daughter names C..... Elizabeth to make it four generations.

Quote:
I think Victoria can be used if Catherine has a girl. It’s going to be a long time before any of George’s children are on the throne.

George can easily have a sister Victoria and still use the name for his children.
Certainly true. In the past it was quite common to use the same name as one of your siblings for your kid (often because that sibling was a godparent of your child. In royal circles kids were often named after their godparents).

I still don't see it though. I think it more likely for Harry to use, but I don't think we will see either.
  #751  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:51 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post

Honestly I think using Elizabeth for Charlotte's middle name had as much to do with tradition as it did with the queen. And by that I mean Middleton tradition. Though Elizabeth is assumed to be for the queen, its also for Kate.

We have:

Carole Elizabeth
Catherine Elizabeth
Charlotte Elizabeth

All three women the eldest daughters. Elizabeth being the name of Carole's grandmother.
I didn't realize that but I think you're definitely right. In addition to honoring the Queen, William and Catherine were also honoring a Middleton family tradition. How interesting! Thank you for sharing this.
  #752  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well unlikey there will be a queen regnant for a long time.. not unless George's first child is a daughter.. and as he's only 4.....
Which is another reason why I don't see them "reserving" names.

If Harry and Meghan, for example, want to name a daughter Elizabeth I don't see anyone saying "no, that's reserved for George's daughter" when there's no guarantee that (1) George will have a daughter (2) she would become Queen, or (3) George and his wife would even choose that name.

(Of course, I agree the name Elizabeth probably won't be used as a first name until the Queen is gone.)
  #753  
Old 03-17-2018, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Personally I'd like to see the BRF expand the pool of names for future monarchs to include the names of family members who weren't monarchs themselves, especially for daughters. A Queen (Regnant) Caroline or Catherine or Diana, for example, instead of limiting themselves to Mary, Elizabeth, Anne, or Victoria.

But I doubt they'll ask for my opinion.
Because of male-preference primogeniture, there were actually comparatively few reigning queens in the past. Mary, Elizabeth and Anne just happened to be common female names at the time, I guess. Victoria was somewhat original, I suppose, but I don't think the Queen had much of a choice as calling herself Alexandrina would sound odd for an English monarch. Caroline and Catherine were actually names of queen consorts in the past, so they are not unusual names for royals.

As I said, with the introduction of equal primogeniture, queen regnants are now likely to be far more common throughout Europe and, over time, there will be a much bigger set of female regal names.
  #754  
Old 03-17-2018, 03:52 PM
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Mary I - Named by her devoutly Catholic mother for the Virgin Mary.

Elizabeth I - Named for her grandmother Elizabeth of York. Elizabeth also happened to be her maternal grandmother's name.

Mary II - Not sure. Her father had a sister Mary.

Anne- Her mother's name.

Victoria - Her mother's name. The Prince Regent (later George IV) refused to allow her father to give her a more traditional name such as Elizabeth which why she ended up as "Alexandrina Victoria."

"New" names are constantly brought into the Royal Family through marriage, including Victoria, Albert, Alexandra, Marina, Philip, and Diana. A whole collection of new names was introduced when the Hanoverians ascended the throne.

So names that we now consider "traditional" for the BRF weren't always regarded as such. Queen Victoria was the first of her name to be Queen and only the second member of the BRF to even hold that name.

So rather than rely on the four "traditional Queen Regnant" names the parents of a future queen regnant might choose another name from the pool. Perhaps George will decide to honor his mother Catherine, grandmother Diana, or another ancestor such as Queen Caroline.
  #755  
Old 03-17-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Mary I - Named by her devoutly Catholic mother for the Virgin Mary.
I heard that it was her father, King Henry VIII, who chose this name to honour his beloved sister, Princess Mary Tudor (who also happened to be a great friend of Queen Catherine of Aragon)
  #756  
Old 03-17-2018, 04:24 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Maybe my source was wrong.
  #757  
Old 03-17-2018, 04:43 PM
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For a Prince use Edgar as a middle name. Edgar was the youngest son of King Edmund I.
  #758  
Old 03-17-2018, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Maybe my source was wrong.
Eh, its possible for children to be named after more than one person. For example Queen Margarethe was certainly named after her grandmother Margaret of Connaught, but I'm sure the fact it was also the name of Denmark's only Queen in her own right also played in its favor.
  #759  
Old 03-17-2018, 05:14 PM
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That's true. I've read so many biographies of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon that I don't even remember which one made that statement.
  #760  
Old 03-17-2018, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillVictoria View Post
Eh, its possible for children to be named after more than one person. For example Queen Margarethe was certainly named after her grandmother Margaret of Connaught, but I'm sure the fact it was also the name of Denmark's only Queen in her own right also played in its favor.
She was named for both of her grandmothers and her mother. Remember, when Margarethe was born, females could not succeed to the throne in Denmark. She didn't become heir presumptive until just before her 13th birthday in 1953.
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