Gender & Names for Kate & William's 3rd Child

[Gawin]

Honestly I think using Elizabeth for Charlotte's middle name had as much to do with tradition as it did with the queen. And by that I mean Middleton tradition. Though Elizabeth is assumed to be for the queen, its also for Kate.

We have:

Carole Elizabeth
Catherine Elizabeth
Charlotte Elizabeth

All three women the eldest daughters. Elizabeth being the name of Carole's grandmother.

I didn't realize that but I think you're definitely right. In addition to honoring the Queen, William and Catherine were also honoring a Middleton family tradition. How interesting! Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Gawin]

well unlikey there will be a queen regnant for a long time.. not unless George's first child is a daughter.. and as he's only 4.....

Which is another reason why I don't see them "reserving" names.

If Harry and Meghan, for example, want to name a daughter Elizabeth I don't see anyone saying "no, that's reserved for George's daughter" when there's no guarantee that (1) George will have a daughter (2) she would become Queen, or (3) George and his wife would even choose that name.

(Of course, I agree the name Elizabeth probably won't be used as a first name until the Queen is gone.)

 

[Mbruno]

Personally I'd like to see the BRF expand the pool of names for future monarchs to include the names of family members who weren't monarchs themselves, especially for daughters. A Queen (Regnant) Caroline or Catherine or Diana, for example, instead of limiting themselves to Mary, Elizabeth, Anne, or Victoria.

But I doubt they'll ask for my opinion. ?

Because of male-preference primogeniture, there were actually comparatively few reigning queens in the past. Mary, Elizabeth and Anne just happened to be common female names at the time, I guess. Victoria was somewhat original, I suppose, but I don't think the Queen had much of a choice as calling herself Alexandrina would sound odd for an English monarch. Caroline and Catherine were actually names of queen consorts in the past, so they are not unusual names for royals.

As I said, with the introduction of equal primogeniture, queen regnants are now likely to be far more common throughout Europe and, over time, there will be a much bigger set of female regal names.

 

[Gawin]

Mary I - Named by her devoutly Catholic mother for the Virgin Mary.

Elizabeth I - Named for her grandmother Elizabeth of York. Elizabeth also happened to be her maternal grandmother's name.

Mary II - Not sure. Her father had a sister Mary.

Anne- Her mother's name.

Victoria - Her mother's name. The Prince Regent (later George IV) refused to allow her father to give her a more traditional name such as Elizabeth which why she ended up as "Alexandrina Victoria."

"New" names are constantly brought into the Royal Family through marriage, including Victoria, Albert, Alexandra, Marina, Philip, and Diana. A whole collection of new names was introduced when the Hanoverians ascended the throne.

So names that we now consider "traditional" for the BRF weren't always regarded as such. Queen Victoria was the first of her name to be Queen and only the second member of the BRF to even hold that name.

So rather than rely on the four "traditional Queen Regnant" names the parents of a future queen regnant might choose another name from the pool. Perhaps George will decide to honor his mother Catherine, grandmother Diana, or another ancestor such as Queen Caroline.

 

[Biri]

Mary I - Named by her devoutly Catholic mother for the Virgin Mary.

I heard that it was her father, King Henry VIII, who chose this name to honour his beloved sister, Princess Mary Tudor (who also happened to be a great friend of Queen Catherine of Aragon)

 

[Gawin]

Maybe my source was wrong.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For a Prince use Edgar as a middle name. Edgar was the youngest son of King Edmund I.

 

[WillVictoria]

Maybe my source was wrong.

Eh, its possible for children to be named after more than one person. For example Queen Margarethe was certainly named after her grandmother Margaret of Connaught, but I'm sure the fact it was also the name of Denmark's only Queen in her own right also played in its favor.

 

[Gawin]

That's true. I've read so many biographies of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon that I don't even remember which one made that statement.

 

[LauraS3514]

Eh, its possible for children to be named after more than one person. For example Queen Margarethe was certainly named after her grandmother Margaret of Connaught, but I'm sure the fact it was also the name of Denmark's only Queen in her own right also played in its favor.

She was named for both of her grandmothers and her mother. Remember, when Margarethe was born, females could not succeed to the throne in Denmark. She didn't become heir presumptive until just before her 13th birthday in 1953.

 

[Countessmeout]

Mary I - Named by her devoutly Catholic mother for the Virgin Mary.

Elizabeth I - Named for her grandmother Elizabeth of York. Elizabeth also happened to be her maternal grandmother's name.

Mary II - Not sure. Her father had a sister Mary.

Anne- Her mother's name.

Victoria - Her mother's name. The Prince Regent (later George IV) refused to allow her father to give her a more traditional name such as Elizabeth which why she ended up as "Alexandrina Victoria."

"New" names are constantly brought into the Royal Family through marriage, including Victoria, Albert, Alexandra, Marina, Philip, and Diana. A whole collection of new names was introduced when the Hanoverians ascended the throne.

So names that we now consider "traditional" for the BRF weren't always regarded as such. Queen Victoria was the first of her name to be Queen and only the second member of the BRF to even hold that name.

So rather than rely on the four "traditional Queen Regnant" names the parents of a future queen regnant might choose another name from the pool. Perhaps George will decide to honor his mother Catherine, grandmother Diana, or another ancestor such as Queen Caroline.

As we will find, names often have more then one reason for them. Like Charlotte's middle name being both for Middletons and for the Queen.

Mary-while Catherine may have indeed thought the Virgin Mary, it was also for her Aunt Queen Mary of France.

Elizabeth- as you stated was for both her grandmothers Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Howard-Boelyn

Mary II-was named after her ancestor Mary Queen of Scots

Anne- Anne was not only named for her mother, but many an ancestor on both sides (two great grandmothers including Anne of Denmark, and 3 maternal great-great grandmothers were all named Anne)

Alexandrina Victoria- Alexandrina was in honor of her godfather Tsar Alexander I of Russia. Her Uncle indeed refused to allow her any traditional English royal name, but ruled Victoria too German a name.

The name choices before Victoria really are of little consideration. None of those women would have ever been expected to come to the throne. Victoria her Uncle didn't believe ever would come to the throne, and seemed to resent her quite a bit. Hence leading to her unusual name choice.

There is also

Empress Mathilda- was named for her mother Queen Matilda, who was a daughter of King Malcolm of Scotland

Queen Jane- Not entirely sure, but possibly in honor of Jane Seymour who was queen when she was born (her mother was frequent at court, a niece of Henry VIII). Queen Jane died the same year as Jane Grey was born.

Elizabeth was the first woman to be born with a considered chance at the throne. There was some thought that Edward may still marry and have kids, but she was the heir of her generation at the time. Her and her daughter Anne were really the first named for any real potential for the throne.

Eh, its possible for children to be named after more than one person. For example Queen Margarethe was certainly named after her grandmother Margaret of Connaught, but I'm sure the fact it was also the name of Denmark's only Queen in her own right also played in its favor.

It may have crossed their mind, but at the time she was born, no one would have thought Margrethe would come to the throne. She was 13 when the laws were changed to make Margaret heir. When they named her, they would have 1. expected Ingrid to have a son or 2. Knud to follow his brother. So much so both Knud's sons had Christian or Frederick among their names, his younger being Christian.

While the name Margrethe having some royal lineage to it would have made it a more acceptable choice, the fact her names (Margrethe Alexandrine Ingrid) were for her two grandmothers and mother would have been the main reason. Her fourth name honored her grandfather was King of Iceland.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For a Prince's middle name, use the combination Ernest Albert.
Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh was Alfred Ernest Albert.
George V was George Frederick Ernest Albert.

 

[AdmirerUS]

or Ernestina Alibertina for a girl

 

[LadyCatharine]

She has dropped
Her "daughter", is s l o w l y making her way into the world

 

[Lady Nimue]

Princess Alexandra Alice Victoria

Or (hedging bet) Prince Alexander Albert Michael

 

[Countessmeout]

I really do hope with the plethora of royal and family names out there, they don't reuse one of the names they have already used. As much as I love Alexandra (too close to Alexander).

If the polls are right:

Princess Mary Alice Victoria

or

Prince Albert Arthur X (seems only 2 top choices for boys)

I am still hoping with this being baby 3 we will see a definitive nod to the Middletons (not simply like Elizabeth found in both families).

Princess Alice Valerie Frances
-Alice of course for Philip's mom, have hoped for it since first pregnancy
-Valerie Kate's codebreaker grandmother
-Frances in honor of Michael and Diana

Prince Philip Francis Peter
-Philip and Peter in honor of their grandfathers who actually met
-Francis- again for Michael and Diana

Or if they don't use Philip (possibly if Zara will use) Arthur not Philip.

 

[Frideswide]

Prince Albert Arthur X (seems only 2 top choices for boys)

I wouldn't dismiss Alfred. Alfred has royal pedigree and the short form Alfie is extremely popular at the moment.

Frances in honor of Michael and Diana

Diana's middle name was in honor of her mother, so I would see the choice of Frances as also a nod to the baby's great-grandmother Frances Shand Kydd née Roche.

I only see the first name (or the name I know someone by) as personal. Middle names like this are more like a collection of baggage.

 

[Mbruno]

Princess Alexandra Alice Victoria

Or (hedging bet) Prince Alexander Albert Michael

If it is a boy, my guess is that his first name will be Arthur. If it is a girl, she will be named Alice or Mary.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

or Ernestina Alibertina for a girl

Alberta could be used for the middle name of a Princess.
Princess Louse, Duchess of Argyll was Louise Caroline Alberta.

If Frances is used for a Princess, it can also honor Frances Dora Bowes-Lyon, Countess of Strathmore. She was the paternal grandmother of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.

 

[_Heather_]

And, given that both George and Charlotte's names have followed the pattern of having three names, the second name beginning with a vowel and the third with a consonant, I suspect we'll see the same for #3.

So I fully admit to being a name nerd...genealogist, historian, etc. so they fascinate me. Anyway, now that we're getting close to the birth I'm still so interested to see if they follow the pattern with baby #3. I know that most people would roll their eyes and say that it's just coincidence and not a pattern but I can't wait to find out.

If they do follow the pattern I'm thinking we might see something along the lines of Michael Arthur James, Philip Arthur Michael, Matilda Olivia Mary, Helena Olivia Mary, etc.

 

[Rudolph]

Great suggestions. Philip Arthur Michael does it for me.

 

[Countessmeout]

I wouldn't dismiss Alfred. Alfred has royal pedigree and the short form Alfie is extremely popular at the moment.



Diana's middle name was in honor of her mother, so I would see the choice of Frances as also a nod to the baby's great-grandmother Frances Shand Kydd née Roche.

I only see the first name (or the name I know someone by) as personal. Middle names like this are more like a collection of baggage.

Not dismissing Alfred at all. I simply said if we went by the top choices on the bet makers site those are what the names would be. While they have a top 3 girls names, I could only find top 2 boys names listed. Not sure where Alfred falls in bet making, if top 3 or further down.


Any of the traditional names, like Frances, would come with probably a whole bag full of people it could honor. But considering William had little to no relationship with his maternal grandmother, I doubt his grandmother would be a deciding factor. If they chose Frances, it would be as a nod to his mother and Michael. Any other family member, like Diana's mother and the queen mum's grandmother, would just be additional. Just as Diana's mother was named for her paternal grandmother Frances Work.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For a Princess use Sophie Amalie for middle names. For a Princess use Anne Eleanor as middle names.

 

[Curryong]

Frances is pretty and would probably work well as a middle name. But Princess Frances? Try saying that combination out loud!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For a Prince use Robert as a middle name. Robert II was the King of Scotland from 1371 to 1390.

 

[Countessmeout]

For a Prince use Robert as a middle name. Robert II was the King of Scotland from 1371 to 1390.

Not to mention Robert I, his grandfather, who was king of Scotland Though considering he led the Scots to independence against England, reminding them of Robert the Bruce may not be good. There was also Robert III, son of the second, and father of James I.

Love the name Robert. I don't think it has ever been used outside Scotland for the British royals.Even in Scotland it fell out of popularity after James III. It was used from time to time for illegitimate children and some younger sons. The legit younger sons seem to have died young including a son of James VI who died in infancy.

Be a nice nod to Scotland. Would love to see a name taken from one of the other realms for a younger son. Middle name even.

 

[miss whirley]

William the Conqueror's eldest son was Robert. If it's good enough for William the Conqueror then it's good enough for King William V.

 

[Countessmeout]

William the Conqueror's eldest son was Robert. If it's good enough for William the Conqueror then it's good enough for King William V.

Forgot about Robert Curthose, but then again William didn't seem to think Robert was a good name for an English king either. He chose his son William Rufus to succeed him in England even though Robert was the elder (and was left the Duchy of Normandy instead). Also at the time Robert was born, his father was simply Duke of Normandy, and named his eldest son for his own father Robert the Magnificent. It would have been a fitting name for the future Duke of Normandy.

Henry I had a bastard son name Robert who was named Duke of Gloucester, so there is that.

 

[Kellydofc]

I keep going back and forth on this baby which is odd because I was so certain George would be a boy and Charlotte would be a girl but this one I have nothing.
However, if it's a boy I'm going to say his name will be Philip Albert Michael
For a girl I'm going to pick Victoria Alice Mary

 

[cepe]

I think its always like that for the 3rd one.

I pondered on Philip but I think that's for Zara and Mike, should they have a boy. His father is named PHilip.

I'm sticking with David (2nd choice Michael) and Alice (2nd choice Mary)