Engagement of Prince William to Catherine Middleton: November 16, 2010

[4Pam]

^ Really? That's interesting... I'd thought that they'd known all along!

 

[Osipi]

That doesn't make sense as The Queen would have to have given her consent and then the press have time to gather - that would take more than two hours to arrange. Just the sheer logistics would indicate that she knew earlier than two hours earlier that they were engaged and the same with Charles.

I have to agree here. It has been reported that William did seek the permission of the Queen as well as asking Mr. Middleton for Kate's hand AFTER he proposed . I would also like to think that William would have been considerate enough to privately inform Charles and Camilla of his intention to use Diana's engagement ring as his own. William seems to be a rather conscientious person and I rather doubt that he would just propose with his mother's ring without discussing it with his father.

 

[Thena]

William seems to like to hold information close to the chest. After everything that happened with Paul Burrell, he appears reluctant to trust palace courtiers. Perhaps that's why he didn't tell anyone until he was ready to announce it to the world.

Certainly, if he called his grandmother first with the news and she said no, he wouldn't have gone forward with telling the rest of the family and making the actual announcement.

At least now we know that the Clarence House staff wasn't really lying when they denied everything last week!

 

[Sunnystar]

He's had the ring in his possession for at least 6 weeks. The proposal happened three weeks ago, and he said he was carrying it around in a rucksack for three weeks prior to proposing. Not to mention he said that they'd talked about marriage for at least a year now. I suspect that what is meant by "he informed his father and the Queen that morning" was not that he sought his grandmother's permission that morning (which he probably has had for some time now) but that it literally means ringing both his father and grandmother up to say "I asked her, she said yes and we're coming up to London today to make the big announcement".

 

[Iluvbertie]

If she had said 'no' then he couldn't have made the announcement as he would then have to apply to the privy council and wait a year before becoming engaged.

After thinking for a bit of time I now think both the report and my ideas are right.

I would suggest that he asked the Queen for permission, and discussed things with Charles and Camilla some time ago. He then proposes knowing he had their consent and blessing. They come back from Africa and tell only the closest of family - the Queen, Charles, Camilla, Harry and the Middletons.

The while in Afghanistan I thinks that now is the time so comes home on Monday and says to Kate 'how about making it official tomorrow?' Then on Tuesday morning he rings the Queen and Charles and says - look we want to announce it today.

Some of the arrangements would take more than two hours such as organising the interviews and the press. How long was there from the official annoucement to the photo call and the interview?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Prince William and Kate Middleton to have Royal wedding at Westminster Abbey | Mail Online

Prince William and Kate Middleton are to marry at Westminster Abbey, the Daily Mail can reveal.

Our exclusive picture shows Kate, 28, paying a secret visit last night to the historic church that witnessed Princess Diana’s funeral.

It also became increasingly likely that the wedding will take place in March.

The DM may be right but just because she was looking at one possible venue, which the article admits she doesn't know that well, doesn't mean that that is the one they will chose.

Most brides/couples look at a number of venues and if she didn't know what Westminster looked like than she would need to check it out. The article says she was familiar with St Pauls' and the Chapel Royal is right there near CH so a visit there could also have happened as could one to the Guards Chapel (I don't remember if she went to the memorial service - I refused to watch it as never being a fan of Diana I would regard it as a hypocrite to watch that service - which brings me to the next point - will the Diana fanatics stop Camilla attending William's wedding?)

 

[Osipi]

I do seriously believe that the wedding will be at Westminster Abbey as it does seem like the perfect venue for a royal wedding. A lot of historic weddings took place there. There will also be a decent amount of space for the general population to catch a glimpse of Kate arriving and the parade from the Abbey to BP for the wonderful balcony kiss.

I don't think anything could or would prevent Camilla from attending this wedding as William's stepmother. William obviously has accepted her and that's the only thing that matters.

 

[Charlotte1]

The Timeline goes something like this from the interviews William's done.

Before he goes on holiday to Kenya, he speaks to the Queen and tells her of his intention to propose. (Not a formal request for permission to marry)

Goes to Kenya, proposes to Kate is accepted.

Spends following weekend at Balmoral and speaks to Michael Middleton. Family comes back from Scotland and according to Kate, she knew her father knew but wasn't sure her mother did. There were some strange looks between them as they tried to work out who knew what!

After the Balmoral trip Kate's remaining grandparent Michael Middleton's father died. Her family were in mourning and the funeral was held last Friday,(Kate and William attended) this contributed to the delay in announcing the engagement.

Day of the engagement 7.30 the Queen and Charles were informed (by William) that the engagement would be announced that day. Clarence House staff have previously said once William and Kate told them they were engaged then they would spring into action. They obviously had the plan ready to go.

Official announcement of engagement released at 11am.

Photocall at St James at 4.45pm so gave all the media time to organise camera crews.

Engagement interview followed, Tom Bradby had already been selected and probably contacted that day.

It seems the ones who knew definitely they were engaged were William and Kate, Michael Middleton, with some guessword Carole Middleton. The Queen knew he was going to propose but not the outcome. William and Kate kept as few people as possible aware of what was going to happen, that's how they managed to not have any leaked information getting out. Harry it seems didn't know until the day it was announced, which explains why a statement from him wasn't released until he had finished his flight training for the day.

William's official permission to marry will occur in the next few months.

 

[Thena]

And another story in Hello says that William called up the Queen on Monday to get her permission. Which tells me that the media is getting different information from at least two inside sources. Maybe William was right to keep the information to himself as long as possible.

There is no reason why Camilla should not attend William's wedding. In fact, I would love to see William greet Camilla at the entrance to the abbey and personally escort her to her seat before the wedding begins. What a way to shush her critics, right?

 

[Osipi]

There is no reason why Camilla should not attend William's wedding. In fact, I would love to see William greet Camilla at the entrance to the abbey and personally escort her to her seat before the wedding begins. What a way to shush her critics, right?

I really can't see this being done but I do love the idea! If my memory is still functioning at half speed here (its early AM here), isn't the protocol that the Queen is the last to enter and be seated before the bridal procession? I know with the wedding of Victoria and Daniel, Daniel walked up the aisle but I can't remember if this was done in any British royal wedding. Lots of protocol things we're going to be learning from this upcoming wedding!

 

[Iluvbertie]

William's official permission to marry will occur in the next few months.

William already will have the Queen's permission or else the engagement wouldn't have been announced. Signing the paper work will happen at some Privy Council meeting before the wedding.

With Peter's I remember the wording at the time of the announcement made it clear that the Queen had consented but the paper work wasn't done until about a month before the actual wedding. The same thing with Charles, Andrew and Edward's wedding (I don't remember the details of Anne's) but in each case the wording of the engagement announcement made it clear that the Queen's consent had been given.

There is no way an announcement would be made without the Queen's consent. What would happen if she now said 'no'? Then everything has to wait a year for the request to go through the Privy Council and that raises the issue of why the Queen believes she is unsuitable.

The Queen has given her verbal permission just not the final paperwork signed off yet.

 

[cd_1]

why haven't photos been released? official ones, with family?

 

[Jacknch]

I'm a little confused! I thought that the Queen only had to give consent to a royal marriage if the royal in question was under 25 years of age!?

 

[Osipi]

William already will have the Queen's permission or else the engagement wouldn't have been announced. Signing the paper work will happen at some Privy Council meeting before the wedding.

This makes the most sense to me. As far as who knew of the engagement before Tuesday, I do believe that it was kept totally private with perhaps only the immediate family of both William and Kate in the know. There was no real reason for anyone such as courtiers and the press to know until right before the actual public announcement.

Along these lines as to how fast things moved in setting up the engagement photo-op and the interview, I also think that the wedding plans are going to go swiftly and the wedding be as early as they can pull it all together. I read in one article (can't remember where) that William doesn't want this to drag out and put unnecessary stress on Kate. I do think that March is very much a possibility here.

 

[Jacknch]

why haven't photos been released? official ones, with family?

I'm afraid there will be no official photographs with family of the actual engagement itself. Sometime over the course of the next few months before the wedding, William and Kate will have official photographs done just of themselves to commemorate the wedding.

 

[Osipi]

I'm a little confused! I thought that the Queen only had to give consent to a royal marriage if the royal in question was under 25 years of age!?

I believe it is when one is under 25, one must get the permission of the Queen to marry at all. Over 25, should the Queen refuse permission, then one can apply to Parliament for permission to marry and wait one year. I imagine that if Parliament refuses also, then should the marriage occur, all due penalties would be enacted.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Spends following weekend at Balmoral and speaks to Michael Middleton.

Odd, I would have thought he would have asked for Kates hand before he proposed.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I'm a little confused! I thought that the Queen only had to give consent to a royal marriage if the royal in question was under 25 years of age!?

This is a link to the actual Act

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDocId=1516875

It clearly points out that there are two phases of getting permission.

When under 25 the monarch MUST give permission and there is no alternative - so Beatrice and Eugenie could only marry with the Queen's permission, at the moment.

But for William, Harry and Zara there is an alternative route - if the Queen says 'no'. They have the option of petitioning the Privy Council (not the parliament itself). The Privy Council can give its consent after a period of 12 months have elapsed and neither of the Houses of Parliament has objected.

Obviously William already has the Queen's permission otherwise the suitability of Kate would be a topic to be debated in both Houses of Parliament.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Royal engagement: It's Prince William's loving tribute, but THAT ring ensures Kate Middleton can never be free of the spectre of Diana | Mail Online

 

[Charlotte1]

Odd, I would have thought he would have asked for Kates hand before he proposed.

William explained it in the interview, he had thought what if Michael Middleton said 'no' before he asked Kate. So he decided to propose to Kate first, she said yes, then asked her father who could hardly say 'no' since Kate had already agreed!

William already will have the Queen's permission or else the engagement wouldn't have been announced. Signing the paper work will happen at some Privy Council meeting before the wedding.

Official permission is when the paperwork goes through, William got the 'Yes go ahead" from the Queen when he spoke to her. It may be all that was required but the official stuff is the paperwork.

 

[Jacknch]

Thanks for the explaination and the link!

 

[Osipi]

Odd, I would have thought he would have asked for Kates hand before he proposed.

Maybe he did but that's something we're not going to be privvy to. Seems he kind of figured it out that if he asked Mike first, he might say no so he played it safe and asked Kate first and then Mike as there he would be less inclined to not give his permission on a done deal. Hehe.. that is as cute as the ducks statement "We're like ducks.. calm but the little feet are really going" or something along those lines. These little tidbits did give us a glimpse into the two of them without revealing a whole lot of information that they wish to keep private to themselves.

 

[muriel]

The Timeline goes something like this from the interviews William's done...

Sounds about right to me.

 

[angieuk]

Will & Kate: A Royal Wedding | Mirror Collection - Royal Wedding 2011 magazine out now

 

[texankitcat]

I would love to be an insider as to what is going on in Kate's mind now that the engagement is announced and she and William are sitting in rooms discussing whether the wedding will be held at Westminster Abby, St. Paul's Cathedral or the Chapel Royal. What Heads of State, Royalty and famous people she has never met will be invited, etc... It has got to be a surreal experience for a girl that had an ordinary upbringing.

 

[muriel]

I would love to be an insider as to what is going on in Kate's mind now that the engagement is announced and she and William are sitting in rooms discussing whether the wedding will be held at Westminster Abby, St. Paul's Cathedral or the Chapel Royal. What Heads of State, Royalty and famous people she has never met will be invited, etc... It has got to be a surreal experience for a girl that had an ordinary upbringing.

They are not "sitting in rooms discussing whether the wedding will be held at Westminster Abby, St. Paul's Cathedral or the Chapel Royal. What Heads of State, Royalty and famous people she has never met will be invited, etc..." as William has already returned to Wales to carry on his militiary duties. Kate is still in London and working with the officials in London and working through the details.

 

[texankitcat]

I refused to watch it as never being a fan of Diana I would regard it as a hypocrite to watch that service - which brings me to the next point - will the Diana fanatics stop Camilla attending William's wedding?)[/QUOTE]

How could they stop Camilla from attending Prince William's wedding? She is after all his step-mother and they seem to really like her. I think Camilla is secure in her relationship with the boys, and isn't looking to overstep any boundaries either personally or publicly. She IS part of the Royal family and as such will be expected to attend.

What will be interesting to see is how the Spencers behave in regards to Camilla for this event. I would imagine it will be extremely awkward for both parties, and it will be interesting to see if they can put aside their animosity towards Prince Charles and Camilla in the interest of William. Enough time has gone by that everyone should have moved on and accepted it, but we will see...

 

[Iluvbertie]

I refused to watch it as never being a fan of Diana I would regard it as a hypocrite to watch that service - which brings me to the next point - will the Diana fanatics stop Camilla attending William's wedding?)

How could they stop Camilla from attending Prince William's wedding? She is after all his step-mother and they seem to really like her. I think Camilla is secure in her relationship with the boys, and isn't looking to overstep any boundaries either personally or publicly. She IS part of the Royal family and as such will be expected to attend.

What will be interesting to see is how the Spencers behave in regards to Camilla for this event. I would imagine it will be extremely awkward for both parties, and it will be interesting to see if they can put aside their animosity towards Prince Charles and Camilla in the interest of William. Enough time has gone by that everyone should have moved on and accepted it, but we will see...[/QUOTE]


Before the memorial service to Diana people said the same thing - how could Diana fanatics stop her attending but they did didn't they?

There are some people who simply believe that Camilla shouldn't do anything with regard to the princes that would have been done by Diana - such as attend their weddings as the wife of their father.

Many people haven't moved on and never will - to many Diana is still the saint and Camilla the sinner.

 

[muriel]

Before the memorial service to Diana people said the same thing - how could Diana fanatics stop her attending but they did didn't they?

There are some people who simply believe that Camilla shouldn't do anything with regard to the princes that would have been done by Diana - such as attend their weddings as the wife of their father.

Many people haven't moved on and never will - to many Diana is still the saint and Camilla the sinner.[/QUOTE]

I accept that a lot of people have not moved on, and still appear to be stuck in a pre-1997 era, but the reason Camilla had to pull out of the 2007 service for Diana was the actual subject matter of the service itsself, ie Diana. Given the history, I too agree that it would have probably not havebeen appropriate for Camilla to be present there. This will be a different story. Camilla is the step-mother and has every right (and duty) to attend. CAmilla's children will be present as well.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I disagree - if William and Harry, as is reported, did invite her to the memorial service, then who else has a right to make life such that she couldn't attend.