Royal Engagements Announcements 2017

[MAfan]

Welcome to the thread for Royal Engagements Announcements in 2017. The 2016 version of this thread can be found HERE.

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The original posts will be updated with news as soon as the information is made public.

[principessa]

Princess Marie Gabrielle of Nassau got engaged to Antonius Willms.

Source: Nobiliana, EAG 2017 by Duchess

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by principessa

Princess Marie Gabrielle of Nassau got engaged to Antonius Willms.

Source: Nobiliana, EAG 2017 by Duchess

They are 5th cousins as both have descended from Princess Carolina Ferdinanda of Bourbon Two-Sicilies, Duhcess de Berry (1798-1870)

[Stefanie]

[QUOTE=Marc23;1953952]They are 5th cousins as both have descended from Princess Carolina Ferdinanda of Bourbon Two-Sicilies, Duhcess de
Antonius' mother and Count Moritz v. Goess, husband of Princess Fleur v. Wuerttemberg are first Cousins.

[Stefanie]

[QUOTE=Stefanie;1953969]

Originally Posted by Marc23

They are 5th cousins as both have descended from Princess Carolina Ferdinanda of Bourbon Two-Sicilies, Duhcess de
Antonius' mother and Count Moritz v. Goess, husband of Princess Fleur v. Wuerttemberg are first Cousins.

Marie Gabrielle was born September 8 in 1986
Antonius was born December 22 in 1988.

[Biri]

Archduke Franz Ludwig of Austria (b.5 October 1988) [sixth of eight children of Archduke Rudolf of Austria (b.1950) & his wife Helene, nee Baroness Vigelfagne de Vogelsanck (b.1954)] got engaged to Mathilde Vignon (b.1992) this year.

Athough Franz Ludwig is sixth of eight, he is only the second one who marries; as for now only his oldest brother Christian (b.1979) is married to Estelle de Saint-Romain (b.1979) and has four daughters: Zita (b.2008), Anezka (b.2010), Anna (b.2012) & Paola (b.2015).

Source: Descendants of Archduke Franz Karl of Austria

[Elektra]

Hereditary Prince Ferdinand of Leiningen (born 1982) is engaged to Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia (born 1982).

They will marry civilly on April 29 in Amorbach.

Royal Musings: BREAKING NEWS: Hereditary Prince Ferdinand zu Leiningen to wed ....

[Countessmeout]

Is it proper to call Viktoria princess, even if a courtesy title ? Her father renounced his right to marry the first of his three commoner wives. Viktoria is the daughter of his second. Her father is uncle of George of Prussia, the current head of the house. George inherited, though Victoria's father contested in court for years, because his uncles renounced their rights.

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Is it proper to call Viktoria princess, even if a courtesy title ? Her father renounced his title to marry the first of his three commoner wives. Viktoria is the daughter of his second. Her father is uncle of George of Prussia, the current head of the house. George inherited, though Victoria's father contested in court for years, because his uncles renounced their rights.

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named. When his parents married, his mother was loaned a tiara from Queen Elizabeth to wear.

Renouncing a right does not mean renouncing a title. And also the head of the House has not issued any Decree stating that his uncle has lost his title. Anyway, many happy congratulations to the engaged couple!

[Countessmeout]

Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

Since the titles do not exist in Germany, nobody could make you change your family name(courtesy title) if you yourself don't want.

The grooms uncle Karl Emich has also renounced his succession rights, but is still Prinz zu Leiningen and nobody can dispute that.

[MarleneKoenig]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Is it proper to call Viktoria princess, even if a courtesy title ? Her father renounced his title to marry the first of his three commoner wives. Viktoria is the daughter of his second. Her father is uncle of George of Prussia, the current head of the house. George inherited, though Victoria's father contested in court for years, because his uncles renounced their rights.

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named. When his parents married, his mother was loaned a tiara from Queen Elizabeth to wear.

Friedrich Wilhelm and his brother Michael renounced their rights & rights of their descendantsas members of the royal house for succession (and inheritance) due to Wilhelm II's will. Neither lost their title or the HRH. Their children have the surname Prinz or Prinzessin von Preussen but are not Princes or Princesses of Prussia, although the media will style them as such

Originally Posted by Marc23

Since the titles do not exist in Germany, nobody could make you change your family name(courtesy title) if you yourself don't want.

The grooms uncle Karl Emich has also renounced his succession rights, but is still Prinz zu Leiningen and nobody can dispute that.

Karl Emich did not renounce his rights. He lost them. He briefly succeeded his father, but due to his father's will, he had to step down, as his second marriage was not approved or accepted so he and his male descendants lost their succession rights. He reverted to HSH Prince Karl Emich zu Leiningen.

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

Prior to 1919, the head of the house would have given the wife and kids a lesser title.

Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig

Friedrich Wilhelm and his brother Michael renounced their rights & rights of their descendantsas members of the royal house for succession (and inheritance) due to Wilhelm II's will. Neither lost their title or the HRH. Their children have the surname Prinz or Prinzessin von Preussen but are not Princes or Princesses of Prussia, although the media will style them as such

I got it wrong years ago but the bridal tiara was returned to the Hanovers in I think the 1850s

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

Morganatic marriages do not exist in Germany. And yes, his children can receive his name and title. Even adoptive children can (see the Zsa Zsa Gabor's widower Frederic "Prinz von Anhalt" (born Hans Georg Robert Lichtenberg) who payed a real Princess a lot of money to get him adopted as her son...That Princess "adopted" 35 (!!) people in turn for money.

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig

Karl Emich did not renounce his rights. He lost them. He briefly succeeded his father, but due to his father's will, he had to step down, as his second marriage was not approved or accepted so he and his male descendants lost their succession rights. He reverted to HSH Prince Karl Emich zu Leiningen.

Thank you for this. :)

But he has stayed Prince no matter what.

[Tilia C.]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

...

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named. When his parents married, his mother was loaned a tiara from Queen Elizabeth to wear.

The groom's mother, nee Princess Alexandra von Hannover, wore the Hannover wedding crown for her own wedding. That little diamond crown is property of the Prince of Hanover and is not owned by Queen Elizabeth. QEII owns a similar small crown which goes back to Queen Victoria.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Morganatic marriages do not exist in Germany. And yes, his children can receive his name and title. Even adoptive children can (see the Zsa Zsa Gabor's widower Frederic "Prinz von Anhalt" (born Hans Georg Robert Lichtenberg) who payed a real Princess a lot of money to get him adopted as her son...That Princess "adopted" 35 (!!) people in turn for money.

Yes, because Prince iscacsurname now. Zsa Zsa husband didn't buy a title he bought a last name. Not legal abd doesn't make him royalty.

And yes morgantic marriages were a thing when German titles were recognized. Hence her father and one of his brothers had to renounce succession to marry their commoner wives. The same can be found in many German houses.

The obvious example is Prince Philip's grandfather who was a Prince of Battenberg and not Hesse, because of his father's morgantic marriage. His mother and the children were granted a lesser title and not permitted succession rights to Hesse.

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is interesting that the marriage of the parents of Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia was not considered Standesgemäß (according one's standing in society).

Her mother Ehrengard Insea Elisabeth von Reden is a daughter of the late Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant-Colonel) Gunter Ludwig Johann Jobst von Reden (died in battle in 1945) and of the late Ehrengard Johanna von Hülsen.

The Von Redens belong to the Nobility since medieaeval times. The Von Hülsens even belong to the Uradel (the eldest Nobility). Apparently the bar was higher back then in the 1930's for what was "befitting a Prince of Prussia".

In any way, Viktoria Luise, despite being the result of the "morganatic marriage" of her parents, has full noble quarters and is not exactly "from the street".

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It is interesting that the marriage of the parents of Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia was not considered Standesgemäß (according one's standing in society).

Her mother Ehrengard Insea Elisabeth von Reden is a daughter of the late Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant-Colonel) Gunter Ludwig Johann Jobst von Reden (died in battle in 1945) and of the late Ehrengard Johanna von Hülsen.

The Von Redens belong to the Nobility since medieaeval times. The Von Hülsens even belong to the Uradel (the eldest Nobility). Apparently the bar was higher back then in the 1930's for what was "befitting a Prince of Prussia".

In any way, Viktoria Luise, despite being the result of the "morganatic marriage" of her parents, has full noble quarters and is not exactly "from the street".

Even if the marriage would have been considered equal her brothers would have no succession rights as their father had rennounced his dynastic rights after his first marriage.
A similr case is in the Leiningen Family.
The grooms uncle Prince Karl-Erich made a dynastic marriage to Princess Margarita zu Hoihenlohe-Oehringen who died in a car crash a few year later. His second marriage to Gabriele Thyssen was not approved and he lost his dynastic rights. After his marriage ended in divroce he married again to Countess Isabvelle zu Egloffstein. With her he has a son but as fhis fathe lost his rights the son has no succession rights to the Princely Title.

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It is interesting that the marriage of the parents of Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia was not considered Standesgemäß (according one's standing in society).

Her mother Ehrengard Insea Elisabeth von Reden is a daughter of the late Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant-Colonel) Gunter Ludwig Johann Jobst von Reden (died in battle in 1945) and of the late Ehrengard Johanna von Hülsen.

The Von Redens belong to the Nobility since medieaeval times. The Von Hülsens even belong to the Uradel (the eldest Nobility). Apparently the bar was higher back then in the 1930's for what was "befitting a Prince of Prussia".

In any way, Viktoria Luise, despite being the result of the "morganatic marriage" of her parents, has full noble quarters and is not exactly "from the street".

True, but there is a difference.

Similar was Prussia/Harrach case.

King Friedrich Wilhelm III married Countess Auguste von Harrach zu Rohrau und Thannahausen.

Countess Auguste belonged to mediatized family, but did not belong to the main branch which was considered mediatized, but from collateral branch, so, because of that she had to be treated as morganatic wife.

Also, similar case is with never materialized marriage between Crown Prince Willem of Orange-Nassau and Countess Mathilde von Limburg-Stirum. Although she was a member of a mediatized family, she did not belong to the branch which had sovereign rights before 1806 and the marriage prospects were doomed.

This is, IMO, the case with Prussia/Reden case. Ehrenagard belonged to untitled branch of the family, while titled branch had title Count/Countess von Reden.

If Prince Michael was to be married with Countess Ehrengard von Reden (member of titled branch of the family), instead of "just" untitled noble lady Ehrengard von Reden, I think the case would be treated different.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Marc23

This is, IMO, the case with Prussia/Reden case. Ehrenagard belonged to untitled branch of the family, while titled branch had title Count/Countess von Reden.

If Prince Michael was to be married with Countess Ehrengard von Reden (member of titled branch of the family), instead of "just" untitled noble lady Ehrengard von Reden, I think the case would be treated different.

But on the other hand the marriages of Prince Wilhelm Karl to Armgard von Veltheim and his son Oscar to Augustge Zimmermann von Siefaerth where both approved as dynastic.
Why make differences? Because they where not the first in the line of succession?