Prince Frederik & Princess Mary's Visit to Saudi Arabia and Qatar: Feb 28-Mar 3, 2016

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by Nordic

I don't know what Mary was supposed to wear but her hosts can't have been too insulted, because during the day, she was asked to dine with the Kings sisters.

I agree. How nice that she got the invitation to dine with the sisters.
In this picture we can see Mary's lady in waiting and another female minister without their head covered but respectfully dressed.
http://www.spa.gov.sa/galupload/norm...6656329095.jpg

and some pictures of Frederik trying a local drink and food. I think the sun was too bright but he looks wonderful
http://riyadhconnect.net/latest-saud...8A%D8%A9-3.jpg
http://riyadhconnect.net/latest-saud...8A%D8%A9-2.jpg

[Roskilde]

A few more pictures from today:

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2a&oe=5752E283
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=5754F49F
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...26&oe=57606787

Tomorrow, the actual official visit will begin :)

Originally Posted by Terri Terri

I have 2 questions...How long is the flight from Copenhagen to Saudi Arabia?

It takes about 8-16 hours depending on how many stopovers along the way. It's clear these official trips is no pleasure, but hard work. However, F&M can skip the worst jetlags on this official trip as Saudi Arabia is only 2 hours ahead of Danish time.

Originally Posted by Muhler

After the lunch Frederik went to have dinner at the Danish embassy, while Mary went with the King's two sisters, Latifa and Al Jawhara. Their dinner took place at Princess Latifa's residence.

Tomorrow it will be down to business.

Notice the handshaking video. There are two men who do not shake hands with Mary. The first one greet her politely though, while the second one was in my eyes about to pass right by her, when she stretched out her hand, which he refused. I thought that was a bit rude.

I personally think it too was a bit weird to see that one of the men didn't shake our Crown Princess' hand - just because she is a woman. But again she shows her strength by not letting such disrespectful actions seen - she smiled and pretended like nothing.
- Of course, there has prior to the visit been a good briefing, where the Crown Prince couple have been told that this could happen - but I think it was well handled, anyway.

We know how obviously very proud Frederik is of his wife, so I can imagine he found it weird to look at too when one of the men didn't shake his wife's hand.

It's a difficult task which the Danish government has put our skilled Crown Prince Couple in at this official visit. But they are doing it well!

[carlota]

i guess mary has had people of her entourage and protocolar aides investigating whether she should or should not cover her head, so i doubt this is a protocolar mistake. she is not saudi, so i guess some degree of liberty exists for women on diplomatic missions like her.

in the same manner as frederik is not wearing the long robe that the saudis are wearing, but instead just wearing normal clothes, i doubt the same behaviour expected of saudi women is expected of mary (which is not to say that this would apply to other non royal women).

[Tarlita]

Some photos of Queen Margrethe in 1984 Saudi visit and her attire.
I am also sure in the preparation meetings for this trip Marys head covering was discussed at length.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by Roskilde

But again she shows her strength by not letting such disrespectful actions seen - she smiled and pretended like nothing.
- Of course, there has prior to the visit been a good briefing, where the Crown Prince couple have been told that this could happen - but I think it was well handled, anyway.

i doubt we can call them 'disrespectful' because of not wanting to shake a hand of a woman. it's just their culture and these are deeply held beliefs with religious origins. touching a woman is just not the done thing in saudi, or any deeply muslim, culture.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by carlota

i doubt we can call them 'disrespectful' because of not wanting to shake a hand of a woman. it's just their culture and these are deeply held beliefs with religious origins. touching a woman is just not the done thing in saudi, or any deeply muslim, culture.

What makes it disrespectful isn't that he didn't want to shake her hand. That's a cultural belief that should be respected - and it looks like she's respecting it. There seems to be more to it in the video though - he almost walked past her without any greeting.

In the video one of the first men in the procession doesn't shake Mary's hand (and she doesn't extend her hand to be shaken), but rather nods his head in greeting to her. This is respectful on both sides - she's not pushing him to shake her hand, but he's not ignoring her presence.

Then there's the men who do shake her hand, and it looks to me like they're all extending first (some of them seem to just keep their hand out from shaking Frederik's).

Then near the end of it there's a man who shakes Fred's hand then seems to turn away from Mary without acknowledgement until she extends her hand - it's kind of rude of her to do so, sure, but really she's just forcing him to not acknowledge her.

[Muhler]

Agree. In the TV2 news tonight, there were quite a few men who walked right past Mary, without even looking at her.
And that is rude behavior in my book!
She is after all an official representative for a foreign country and an honored guest of the King.

Not shaking her hand is no problem, that's the custom for some in the country, and when in Rome... Many at least greeted her politely and respectfully by putting their hands over their hearts.
But ignoring her is IMO rude and cannot be excused by religion.

And as a Dane I do feel a bit offended at such behavior towards my Crown Princess.

[Ish]

Muhler, as a woman I find it offensive. To me it says something about the men who take the time to acknowledge her even if they don't shake her hand, and something completely different about those who ignored her presence.

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by Roskilde

A few more pictures from today:

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2a&oe=5752E283
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=5754F49F
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...26&oe=57606787

Tomorrow, the actual official visit will begin :)

.

Love the first two pictures. Wonderful smile and respectful nature from both.

Some more pictures of them arriving.
http://ekstrabladet.dk/incoming/ivlj...0Saudi-Arabien
http://imageservice.nordjyske.dk/ima...&bgcolor=black

and from Saturday's arrival
http://www.spa.gov.sa/galupload/norm...6612953535.JPG

[eya]

Crown Princess Mary and Prince Frederick in Saudi Arabia | Daily Mail Online

[oultrement]

Originally Posted by carlota

i doubt we can call them 'disrespectful' because of not wanting to shake a hand of a woman. it's just their culture and these are deeply held beliefs with religious origins. touching a woman is just not the done thing in saudi, or any deeply muslim, culture.

Honestly, it is Muslim culture, one deeply held religious belief is that a woman is the property of her father if she is unmarried, and her husband's property if married. Women cannot drive in SA and must be accompanied by her father, a brother, or husband, with her face covered if leaving her home. It is not our culture nor do we condone it, but these are norms there. Mary handled the situation in the best possible way.

[Hannelore]

What a strange place this country is ... Makes me very glad to enjoy my freedom! Let's hope some of the positive sides of Saudi Arabia will be highlighted too.

In this photo: who is the woman walking behind Mary? http://imageservice.nordjyske.dk/ima...&bgcolor=black

[Muhler]

BT has an account of the first day and seems like the journalist is not impressed.
However, the article also provides a number of details.
Pinlig Saudi-situation: Mænd nægtede at give hånd til Mary - Politik | www.bt.dk

Journalists from six Danish medias accompany M&F, but they didn't see them at all yesterday. The photos and clips were made by a DK photographer and a cameraman, selected on the spur it seems.

There is also an explanation of the Saudi dress code:
About half of the Saudi women wear a Niqab, that covers everything apart from the eyes.
The rest wear a scarf (hajib).
Western women need not cover their hair, but the rest of the body must be covered. As such the female Danish press members have been issued an abaya. A long loose-fitting black dress that go from the neck to to the feet.

The Danish photographer who was allowed in, was Tariq Mikkel Khan from Ekstra Bladet and here is his account:
- Only one if four of the many men who passed by to greet the CP-couple, shook hands with the Crown Princess, while everyone shook hands with the Crown Prince.
Mary was apparently not briefed as to who would shake hands and who wouldn't. So in the beginning of the seance she put forward her hand several times, without that being returned.
Over time she became more passive and waited to see if the person put forward the hand.

"There was a long queue of Arabs who were to greet the CP-couple and after that a lavish lunch, where there were more servants than guests. Only one in four would shake hands with Mary, while the all shook hands with Frederik. She stood looking a little hesitant, when they wouldn't shake her hand"

And while we are at it, the article has a little more on women's rights:
Only a few years ago were women allowed to have their own ID-card with photo (divorcees and widows apparently only last year). Previously they were under first their father and later their husband (presumably in the ID-card). Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women are not allowed to drive cars. The explanation is that they must be protected against being raped, if they are forced to stop and get out of the car.
Women are not allowed to go around in public, without the permission of their husband, so-called witches are beheaded.

Executions and other forms of punishments takes place at public squares. unannounced. But when people can see something is about to happen, they are free to come closer and witness the punishment.

The Danish Foreign Minister, Kristian Jensen, explains why M&F were required to go to Saudi Arabia: "It brings more attention to have them along. And there is a tradition for them also coming along on visits to problematic countries. They have for example also been to China. Saudi Arabia has a really bad standing in regards to human rights, but we also co-operate with them in fighting Islamic State. I also believe we can influence Saudi Arabia positively by trading with them".

- Right. I still feel offended on behalf of Mary - and myself. She's an official and highly regarded representative of my country, so when she's snubbed, I'm snubbed!
I don't buy the argument about this being the local way of showing respect for Mary. I.e. by not touching her hand or look at her. That may apply locally. But Mary is a foreigner and a guest so you have to compromise.
I wouldn't touch a Muslim women on say her shoulder, as I would with a non-Muslim woman, even if I knew her pretty well. Not until it's clear it's okay. But I would expect her to shake my hand if offered. That's a compromise. If I can, why the H can't they?

Another thing, some of you may remember quite a number of years ago, that a fire broke out at a girls school in Saudi Arabia. A considerable number of girls died.
Reason: The Religious Police refused the girls to get out as they were not covered up according to the rules of public attire. So the girls died.
That caused an uproar, even in Saudi Arabia, but AFAIK no one were prosecuted.

-----------------

A similar account from Ekstra Bladet: http://ekstrabladet.dk/flash/kongeli...-haand/5972446
With video. At least these men nodded to her.

With the added info, that Mary as apparently the only one has not been issued an Abbaya robe. Her VIP-status means she can dress as she pleases. - (Within reason of course).

[Ellenpaddy]

Do they arrive already in Saudi Arabia?


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

[Ellenpaddy]

Sorry my mistakes, i hadnt see the thread🙏🏼🙏🏼


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

[GracieGiraffe]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Another thing, some of you may remember quite a number of years ago, that a fire broke out at a girls school in Saudi Arabia. A considerable number of girls died.
Reason: The Religious Police refused the girls to get out as they were not covered up according to the rules of public attire. So the girls died.
That caused an uproar, even in Saudi Arabia, but AFAIK no one were prosecuted.

Which puts into perspective what happened yesterday.

Mary was obviously the better person yesterday. Probably didn't want to have to touch those "gentlemen" either (using the term loosely). So it was a win-win for everybody.

[Muhler]

Here is the fire-story:
15 girls die as zealots 'drive them into blaze' - Telegraph
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_M...9;_school_fire

Slightly off topic, but it provides a view of the extreme conservatism and extreme interpretation of Islam that is dominant in Saudi Arabia.
It's totally incomprehensible to me personally, but provides an explanation as to why some men refused Mary's hand, let alone acknowledging her.

I think this visit will make Mary even more determined to advocate women's rights.
It's one thing to read about it and hear about it, but to experience being discriminated herself just because of her gender, puts things in another perspective.

[rubies]

If your religon or beliefs means your disrepectful.......ridiculous. They can call it culture.... I know too much to know its more than that.

[Muhler]

It's now down to business for M&F and this is the first account of todays events, from BB: Kronprinsesse Mary og kronprins Frederik klippede snoren til erhvervsfremstød i Saudi Arabien | BILLED-BLADET

Together with a representative from Riyadhs Chamber of Commerce, M&F - standing side by side - opened the Danish Saudi Business Forum.
Frederik gave a speech for the 300 invited guests after which M&F strolled around the various booths set up by Danish businesses.

As M&F are not to say anything remotely political during this visit, BB instead quotes the Foreign Minister, Kristian Jensen: "The CP-couple opens more doors, the businesses get better opportunities for creating growth and jobs in Denmark. That's what we want to accomplish from this trip".

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Together with a representative from Riyadhs Chamber of Commerce, M&F - standing side by side - opened the Danish Saudi Business Forum.

Are you sure Mary was there... This is the "official version":
"Then, the Crown Prince of Denmark and Dr. Abdulrahman Al-Zamil also opened the exhibition which highlighted the possible partnership opportunities of Danish companies."