Succession to the Romanian Throne, Part 1

[USCtrojan]

The example above is exactly what I mean. Margarita might be foreign born, but she is a Romanian by birth through her father the king.
The same can be said about Princess Elena, the mother of Nicolae, and the Prince himself.
For this reason, the example in Spain shows that there is hope for the Crown Princess In the event of a restoration.

The reason I say that is not only because of my comment on your post the first time, but Karl of Hohenzollern, might have tues to the line of succession but I still due to the many changes and new constitutions feel that the Romanian parliament could easily go for the daughter of the former king over Karl as he has no direct ties to the king. It just makes sense to me, but every one else seems to feel differently.

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is all very theoretical. In Sweden they once accepted a French Marshall (Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte) as King, in Belgium they rebelled against the Orange-Nassaus, for centuries in the Low Countries and offered the throne to a Prince von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha. Even the Romanians themselves offered the throne to a foreigner.... Prince Karl from Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen was offered the throne and became King Carol I...

[Warren]

Lets have a dose of realism about this.
The days of a country offering its throne to a foreign military commander or to a foreign princeling are long gone.

[Marengo]

I have merged the post about a succession of Prince Karl of Hohenzollern into the thread dealing with Romanian succession issues. Other issues regarding the prince can also be discussed in the Hohenzollern subforum.

[MAfan]

If you want to discuss about the various possible lines of succession to the Romanian throne, this thread is more than suitable for such discussion.

As you may know, the thread abut Crown Princess Margarita (and Prince Radu) covers their current events. A similar thread about Prince Karl Friedrich of Hohenzollern is already existing in the Hohenzollern subforum, where you can discuss the current events of the Prince and in general of the House of Hohenzollern.

As long as Prince Karl Friedrich doesn't show any interest in Romania and in the possibility of becoming in the future King of Romania (if and when the monarchy will be restored) a thread on him in the Romanian subforum is not necessary.

[An Ard Ri]

Has Irina been stripped of her Royal Style of HRH & Princess of Romania and place in the line of succession ?

[Ceallach]

Not just Irina, but all her descendants are out of succession - children, grandchildren.

Familia Regala - Linia de succesiune

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

The great popularity of HM the King's grandson Nicolae will probably bring him as future Pretender supported by the royalists. Very few would support HRH Princess Margareta as Pretender and even less would support HH Prince Karl.

The monarchy is not the The Voice Romania, a TV-popularity poll. For me it is beyond understanding why Mr Nicholas Medforth-Mills would be more popular than Princess Margarita of Romania born a Princess of the House Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. As no any other member of the Romanian Royal House, it is thanks to Princess Margarita and -honour to him who deserves it- Mr Radu Duda, that the Romanian royals have not sank away into obscurity as so many other Royal Houses.

There is no objective reason why the Swiss-born British citizen Mr Nicholas Medforth-Mills would be more popular than is aunt Princess Margarita, other than for his -still- youthful appearance and friendly And by the way... Mr Nicholas Medforth-Mills' own mother still stands above him in the disputed line of successioncharacter. That turns the monarchy into a popularity poll and that is not what that institution is for.

It is the same as "Who is the most popular member of the Swedish royal family?" Answer: "Estelle!". So a baby, a toddler, who can not even speak is more popular than his hardworking mother or the royal couple? Come on...

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Ceallach

Not just Irina, but all her descendants are out of succession - children, grandchildren.

Familia Regala - Linia de succesiune

Why was Princess Irina removed from the virtual line of succession?

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Ceallach

Not just Irina, but all her descendants are out of succession - children, grandchildren.

Familia Regala - Linia de succesiune

And she's now just Irina Walker as per the Royal Family Website.

[Duc_et_Pair]

According the own rules of succession, Princess Irina is in line of succession. I wonder where is the base for her removal out of this line?

[Jacknch]

For those of us not fluent in the Romanian language, here is the Linia de Succesuine in English: -

Members of the Royal House of Romania titles and order of succession rules are determined by the Organic Royal House of Romania.

Thus, according to them, the current Head of the Royal House of Romania is His Majesty Michael I , King of Romania (jure sanguinis ) . The current Chief Consort of the Royal House of Romania is Her Majesty Anne, Queen of Romania (ad personam ) and Princess of Bourbon -Parma (jure sanguinis ) .

The current heir to the Heads of the Royal House of Romania is HRH Princess Margarita , Princess of Romania (jure sanguinis ) , which will be from now on and will remain after the death of His Majesty King Custodian of the Romanian Crown (ad personam ) . The current consort of the heir to the Royal House of Romania dungeon is HRH Prince Radu of Romania (ad personam ) .

Members of the Royal House of Romania are: HRH Elena , Princess of Romania (jure sanguinis ) ; HRH Sofia, Princess of Romania (jure sanguinis ) ; HRH Mary, Princess of Romania (jure sanguinis ) ; Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth -Mills , who received the title, appellation and rank of Prince of Romania and Royal Highness (jure sanguinis ) on 1 April 2010, his 25th birthday.

Wives and children of Their Royal Highnesses Princesses do not have personal titles .

The order of succession to the throne and the Heads of the Royal House of Romania is based on the principle primogeniturii male preference , thereby repealing rules Organic salic principle of primogeniturii absolute masculine , excluding women and their descendants . Basically , currently , it is:

1. HRH Crown Princess Margarita of Romania , Custodian of the Romanian Crown ;
2. HRH Princess Elena of Romania;
3. HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania ;
4. Elisabeta Karina de Roumanie ;
5. HRH Princess Sofia of Romania;
6. Elizabeth Maria Biarneix ;
7. Princess Maria of Romania.

Changes can bring it by the decision of the Head of the Royal House of Romania.

As the translation was via google translate, names, word and sentences may not be quite correct, but I imagine one can get the gist of it.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

According the own rules of succession, Princess Irina is in line of succession. I wonder where is the base for her removal out of this line?

I suppose the rooster fights must have something to do with it.

Re: popularity contest: the monarchy shouldn't be one indeed, but IF there will ever be a referendum on reinstating the monarchy, I suppose they will pick the candidate who is most likely to win. The Brazilian referendum in the 90-ties went desastrous as the unpopular, uncharismatic, ultra conservative and reactionary prince Luiz was the main candidate while the Petropolis branch seemed a bit more normal.

Forfeiting rights has been done before, the most recent example is the late count of Barcelona.

[Cris M]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Re: popularity contest: the monarchy shouldn't be one indeed, but IF there will ever be a referendum on reinstating the monarchy, I suppose they will pick the candidate who is most likely to win. The Brazilian referendum in the 90-ties went desastrous as the unpopular, uncharismatic, ultra conservative and reactionary prince Luiz was the main candidate while the Petropolis branch seemed a bit more normal.

That's not accurate. The referendum went desastrous because people thought there was no clear "canditate" to the Throne, because the Government forbade Princes Luiz (Head of the Imperial House of Brazil), Bertrand (Prince Imperial of Brazil) and Antonio of appearing on television to promote their cause.

In fact, most cities were the Monarchy won more votes were the ones visited by the "ultra conservative" Princes, who also won every single debate.

I know that because I worked tireless during the campaing.

The so-called "Petrópolis Branch" is made of republicans and a Prince who went to jail for robbery.

[An Ard Ri]

From Royal Musings

Royal Musings: Modification to the succession of the Romanian throne

[Marengo]

Thank you for the clarification. I have been in touch with a person who worked for the Vassouras campaign too, that is why I wrote what I wrote. Although indeed the fights between the two branches was a major issue, he also said that he was sad that prince Luiz was the legitemate claimant (according to him), for the reasons I listed above. Of course the prince is a very morally upright and respectable gentleman. Still, I do not think it is wise for former reigning royal families to be associated too closely with ultra conservativism and reactionary groups if they want to be restaured. The whole point of a monarchy is that they are above parties. And ultra conservatives do not appeal to a large group in most countries.

---

In any case, the point was that if there will ever be a referendum, in let's say 10 years or so, it may be possible that Prince Nicholas will be a more appealing figure than his aunt, who must have reached retirement age by then. In that scenario it maybe wise that she forfeits her rights for her nephew. Anyway, these are all unlikely hypotheses.

[MarleneKoenig]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

According the own rules of succession, Princess Irina is in line of succession. I wonder where is the base for her removal out of this line?

Due to her conviction and sentencing (probation for 3 years and fines) for gambling connected to cockfighting, Irina was stripped of her title and she and her descendants are no longer in the line of succession. She is now Irina Walker.

[Andy T]

It seems to me, judging by media coverage, that HRH Princess Margareta is the clear choice, and deservedly so.

As for the Royal House's removal of Irina Walker from the line of succession, it is a sound decision, in my opinion. Realistically, she is far enough down the line not to matter and as a convicted criminal, she is hardly an asset to the cause.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig

Due to her conviction and sentencing (probation for 3 years and fines) for gambling connected to cockfighting, Irina was stripped of her title and she and her descendants are no longer in the line of succession. She is now Irina Walker.

Thank you. I am not sure what to think about this. Apparently the head of the House, King Michael, had a reason to remove his daughter from the line of succession. But according the (revised) rules for the succession in the House of Romania, also Irina's children were in line of succession and are now removed as well. That sounds like paying for someone else's sins...



Anyway, it is all very theoretical and Princess Margareta and especially her husband Radu Duda deserve honour for their zest and commitment to keep the interest in the royal family alive. They have prevented the royal family sinking away in obscurity.

[MarleneKoenig]

Michael is recognized as a former head of state. He is allowed to use and live at the Elisabeta Palace which is the official home for former heads of state. Margarita and Radu are largely based there. A great many functions, private and public, are hosted at the Elisabeta Palace, and the guests included government officials. Receptions hosted by the Crown Princess for visiting dignitaries are also held at the palace. In other words, the RF plays a social role in the country, and their comings and goings are covered by the newspapers and TV on a regular basis. I have known the family for many years and was their guest in 2011 for Michael's 90th birthday. I am the one who broke the news of Irina's arrest to the family. Am absolutely not surprised that Irina's children were also removed because neither have any interest in their maternal family, nor are close to their grandparents ... it really is a moot point. Margarita is recognized as the heir, as the future head of the family, by government and church officials, as well as other royal houses. Prince Karl Friedrich has no interest whatsoever. He has his own family estates and castle to maintain. He does not speak Roumanian, and is a devout Roman Catholic.