Succession to the Romanian Throne, Part 1

[RomanianRoyality]

I did not said they know each family members. I said romanians know who is Hohenzollern family

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[Jacknch]

I'm quite sure Romanians will be like everyone else - those that are interested in royalty and their country's history will know more than others.

Margarita and Radu seem to have reasonably high public profiles as did Nicholas, so I'm sure many people would be aware of them whether they are pro-monarchy or not.

Nicholas' profile will now have diminished somewhat and those who took an interest will probably miss seeing him and eventually forget about him.

[Cory]

The Romanians have all heard about the Hohenzollerns but they would hardly know the nowadays Hohenzollerns.
Mr Medforth Mills is probably much more popular than his aunt.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Jacknch

Nicholas' profile will now have diminished somewhat and those who took an interest will probably miss seeing him and eventually forget about him.

The impending birth of his alleged child by a Romanian young lady is hardly allowing Nicholas to fade completely from the public view.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Jacknch

I'm quite sure Romanians will be like everyone else - those that are interested in royalty and their country's history will know more than others.

Margarita and Radu seem to have reasonably high public profiles as did Nicholas, so I'm sure many people would be aware of them whether they are pro-monarchy or not.

Nicholas' profile will now have diminished somewhat and those who took an interest will probably miss seeing him and eventually forget about him.

Hasn't HRH Princess Margareta been seen as one of the most influential women in Romania in recent years? This would suggest (a) that she has a high profile and (b) she has considerable prestige among the public at large. Admittedly, perceptions of her husband impact her standing negatively but she seems to command considerable respect and admiration.

With regard to Nicholas, we shall see what the future holds... It is my personal hope that time will both counsel and heal.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Romania has not that many ladies high in the state pyramid, the politicians are predominantly male, so it is not so strange that Margareta has a profile. As the saying goes: In the land of the blinds, One-Eye is king...

[Cory]

The Princess is well known on the country but how many would really support her to be Head of State?

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Romania has not that many ladies high in the state pyramid, the politicians are predominantly male, so it is not so strange that Margareta has a profile. As the saying goes: In the land of the blinds, One-Eye is king...

It's interesting that you credit her profile to the fact that she's a woman in a male-dominated society.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Being one of the rare ladies in the top of the social pyramid helps being recognized by the public in that same sea of male presence. This is pretty logical in my personal opinion.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Being one of the rare ladies in the top of the social pyramid helps being recognized by the public in that same sea of male presence. This is pretty logical in my personal opinion.

Your thoughts regarding her high profile in relation to men are interesting, Duc_et_Pair, but the surveys I was referring to refer to her profile in relation to other women, not in relation to men as well, so I don't know how she fares in that comparison.

[Cory]

The fact somebody is very known in a country does not mean that person has dynastic rights or could become Head of state.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Cory

The fact somebody is very known in a country does not mean that person has dynastic rights or could become Head of state.

Unless you organise a coup d'état, you don't become head of state in a democracy if you are not well-known.

"Dynastic rights" count for little: the people are sovereign and it is they who would choose what rights to confer on and on which individual/family.

[Cory]

Obviously for you the Constitution of 1923 means nothing.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Cory

Obviously for you the Constitution of 1923 means nothing.

Please, be courteous enough to let me express what value I attach to documents and limit yourself to expressing what value you attach to them. If I need a spokesperson or an interpreter, I'll ask for one.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Andy T

Please, be courteous enough to let me express what value I attach to documents and limit yourself to expressing what value you attach to them. If I need a spokesperson or an interpreter, I'll ask for one.

When you show me a paper with your family's legal papers from 1874 or so concerning a Trust at the bank or concerning real estate, I am sure you would take that old piece of paper from 1874 as serious as legalists do concerning the Constitution of 1923...

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

When you show me a paper with your family's legal papers from 1874 or so concerning a Trust at the bank or concerning real estate, I am sure you would take that old piece of paper from 1874 as serious as legalists do concerning the Constitution of 1923...

Here we go again. In a democracy, the sovereignty of the people is paramount: constitutions can be, and are, changed. Romania is a republic. It can only become a monarchy again if (i) the 1923 constitution is "re"adopted and all others abrogated or (ii) a new constitution is adopted which reinstates a monarchy with a set of succession rules laid out. In both cases, this must happen with the consent of the people. If the former happens, the Hohenzollerns must reign in Romania. If the latter happens, the monarch will be whoever is chosen.

Those who wish to reinstate the 1923 constitution and its succession rules are free to campaign for it. Those who wish to reinstate the monarchy under a new constitution are equally entitled to do so.

[Cory]

Until a new Constitution restores the Monarchy HH Prince Karl remains theoretically future Head of the Royal House after King Michael.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Cory

Until a new Constitution restores the Monarchy HH Prince Karl remains theoretically future Head of the Royal House after King Michael.

Karl is already head of the royal house of Hohenzollern and, yes, according to the 1923 constitution, he would become King of Romania on the death of King Michael, were Romania still a monarchy governed under that constitution.
So much for the past.


Now for the present. Today, Romania is not governed under that constitution, and never will be again. It is a republic, the 1923 constitution (nor any other before the current one) having no legal force any more.

It's futile to go round in circles any more on this.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Andy T

Karl is already head of the royal house of Hohenzollern and, yes, according to the 1923 constitution, he would become King of Romania on the death of King Michael, were Romania still a monarchy governed under that constitution.
So much for the past.


Now for the present. Today, Romania is not governed under that constitution, and never will be again. It is a republic, the 1923 constitution (nor any other before the current one) having no legal force any more.

It's futile to go round in circles any more on this.

One could always add, although it is with hesitation, knowing the debate it always causes, that the House of Hohenzollern relinquished their rights to the Romanian throne as late as 2008. The princely house of Hohenzollern has thus made it very clear that Romania and the house of Hohenzollern parted ways centuries ago, and despite being from the same lineage, the two entities are distinct now.

If an heir to a restored Romania throne were to be sought outside of the Romanian Royal Family at a time of restoration, it might be that the house of Hohenzollern is asked to provide an heir again, but as long as there is a Royal Family in Romania, willing to serve and able to communicate and connect with the Romanians, it is logical to assume that a dynastic restoration would start from the RF.

Which member(s)? Only time can tell, but to claim that the only 'legal' way to restore a monarchy in Romania is to restore a long-gone constitution is on par with believeing that only 3/5 of black people in America should be counted as citizens, as the American constitution originally said in its 13th amendment, or that one can be stoned to death if wearing clothes made from two different fabrics, as it says in the Bible, Leviticus 19:19.

Time's change, laws, rules and principles adjust to be relevant and a monarchy most of all, banging its head into the wall of democracy as it does, must live in the now to continue to exist. To bang on about a dead constitution and a line of succession rejected by the foreign house once in it, just serves to undermine the monarchical cause, in Romania as well as in other states where a restoration is possible.

When the house of Hohenzollern made it clear that they do not wish to claim rights to the Romanian throne, and King Michael thereafter wrote a proposed new line of succession for parliament to consider should they wish to restore the monarchy, it seems to me that things were done correctly by the dynastic members of both the house of Hohenzollern and the Romanian RF. It therefore follows that any future Romanian monarch will come from the RF, unless something unforeseen happens, and that is where it stands.

[maria-olivia]

How was the relationship from Queen Anne wth the Hohenzollern ?