Succession to the Romanian Throne, Part 1

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

Why will Romanians accept a German Prince as their King? Are Romanians that desperate to have a King?

I for one believe that Romanian should not change anything and continue to live in a semi- presidential republic.

Seems so odd to me to argue against restoring monarchies on monarchical forums :)

[Cory]

Only around 30% of the Romanians are openly royalists but the real republicans would be really few.
The Hohenzollerns represent a Dynasty that had a very important role in the country so it would not be a surprise to support this Dynasty.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

Only around 30% of the Romanians are openly royalists but the real republicans would be really few.
The Hohenzollerns represent a Dynasty that had a very important role in the country so it would not be a surprise to support this Dynasty.

The Bernadotte family of France gave Sweden a Royal Family a few decades before the Hohenzollerns sent a prince to Romania to become king. If the RF in Sweden would become extinct, nobody would ever argue for getting another Bernadotte in from France. The country would probably become a republic instead.

Monarchies are emotional by nature, not purely rational, and the Hohenzollern sphere of influence evaporated in 1918. If Finland could decline an elected German King that year, surely nobody would seriously argue for importing a German prince to Romania to become king, and pretend like the Romanian RF did not exist.

I'm sorry, but to even think that the Romanian Royal Family does not have a future as a reigning dynasty in 2015, because the King only had daughters, is quite offensive to women everywhere.

[Cory]

If Monarchy is restored there are three possibilities : to ask the Hohenzollerns to take the Throne, to change the rules and accept the descendants of King Michael or to propose a new Dynasty. The two King's grandaughters are considered as foreigner as the Hohenzollerns so it is very hard to know what will happen.

[LadyRohan]

Due to some of the events this year, I believe succession to the throne might seem abit more unclear to most people following Romanian political life, but in essence, I believe that when Parliament decides to restore the monarchy, they will already have made contact with the head of the Royal Family to ensure their willingness to once again serve. They will then already have had talks about the position of monarch, and a sorted line of succession.
Personally, I am convinced that Crown Princess Margareta will be the interim custodian of the crown and head of the dynasty, while Nicholas de Roumanie M-M will be chosen to succeed his grandfather as King of Romania.

I don't think we will see the Crown Princess as Queen, simply because this process takes time, the CP is an older woman without issue, and the future of the monarchy will be laid in the hands of the only eligible man.

Despite the events of August, I am fairly sure we will see the monarchy restored, and I think it is more likely that Romanian politicians will want a younger male than an older woman, to re-establish the official dynasty in Romania.

[Cory]

The possibility of Mr Medforth Mills to ever become King is none. The same for his aunt.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

The possibility of Mr Medforth Mills to ever become King is none. The same for his aunt.

It would be nice with some fat added to such harsh opinions, to give them any weight at all.

[Cory]

Mr Medforth Mills is not wanted by hus own Family anymore and his aunt is considered too influenced by her less popular husband.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Cory

Mr Medforth Mills is not wanted by hus own Family anymore and his aunt is considered too influenced by her less popular husband.

So that means the Romanian people should also cast Nicholas aside?

(Which, for the record, does not seem to be happening.)

[Cory]

He is still quite popular among certain royalist circles but that does not mean the Family will change its mind.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Ocean80

[....]I do not believe for a moment that the Romanian Royal Family would be sidelined for a German Princely family that gave an heir to the kingdom of Romania in the middle of the 19th century, and I cannot see the logic behind it at all. [....]

The "German Princely Family" is the very same Royal House and the very same royal dynasty King Michael himself and his daughters belong to, despite the cosmetic attempts to distance themselves from it (after the one-sided changes in the succession by King Michael).

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The "German Princely Family" is the very same Royal House and the very same royal dynasty King Michael himself and his daughters belong to, despite the cosmetic attempts to distance themselves from it (after the one-sided changes in the succession by King Michael).

As I've written many times now, every Royal House in Europe stems from, or was married into/through, another Royal, Princely or Ducal house in Europe. That does not mean that it is logical to assume that Norway would sideline Princess Märtha and her children, in favour of a Danish Prince, if the Crown Princely family would be gone. The Swedish King is fairly unpopular in wider circles, but nobody looks to France for his replacement, they look to his daughter.

The days of importing a strand of family to sideline existing family, have gone, and to argue for such a thoroughly un-modern way of dealing with a royal restoration, continues to strike me as odd. I still have not seen any argument made for the sidelining of the Romanian Royal Family, except the reference to the old constitution referring to salic law.
Safe to say, when the monarchy is restored, the constitution will be new, and not an old, revived one.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

He is still quite popular among certain royalist circles but that does not mean the Family will change its mind.

The family will have to make decisions when they're faced with the request from Parliament to again occupy the Romanian throne. My most likely scenario is that they will choose to continue the family from Nicholas, because it will be clear to them that this is the solution most likely to meet with public and political approval. The last thing the RF would want in that situation, would be to give any cause for Parliament to look elsewhere for an heir. Likewise, Parliament will come under heavy pressure if it turns out the are ignoring the Romanian RF when considering a restoration, and there is no way they will want to be bombarded with questions about why they are attempting to import an heir instead of deciding alongside the RF, an orderly line of succession etc. I would like to see any Prime Minister or government defend their choice to ignore a RF because the King has 5 daughters and no sons, in this day and age.

That is a political cost they will not take, and it will be seen as a sexist and outdated way to restart a monarchy. Everyone should remember that there is a cost in itself to undertake this process. In many circles, outside royalist ones, it can easily be seen as antiquated thing, to return to the monarchy. The last thing the government would want, is to add to that view by ignoring the family of the King because they're women, and to try to import a foreign prince.

Whatever might be thought about certain actions from Nicholas' side, he made it clear he is willing to serve the country, and people were starting to get to know him. He is the senior man of royal blood in the family, when the King is no more, and I believe it will be seen as easier to begin a new dynastic era under a man, with a long life ahead of him.

Title or not at the moment, he is still his grandfathers grandson, and the emotional bond that can be made much of to tie him into the Romanian future, will be easy to sell when the PR-machine gets the job of advocating the monarchy ahead of a likely referendum.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Ocean80

As I've written many times now, every Royal House in Europe stems from, or was married into/through, another Royal, Princely or Ducal house in Europe. That does not mean that it is logical to assume that Norway would sideline Princess Märtha and her children, in favour of a Danish Prince, if the Crown Princely family would be gone. The Swedish King is fairly unpopular in wider circles, but nobody looks to France for his replacement, they look to his daughter.

The problem is that the only two daughters with some interest have no offspring, one daughter shows no interest whatsoever and a fourth daughter is barred from the succession. Then the only grandson which showed some interest has been barred from the succession, the two only granddaughters left live their private lives in London resp. Paris and are invisible.

So, it is nice to start about King Michael's daughters, etc. but on the longer term the interests of the House of Romania are best served with ending the unlucky, unneccessary and unilateral decision by King Michael to forget that he is a Prince von Hohenzollern himself. Remember that until seven years ago these "Germans" were simply in the line of succession, as they have been for decades and decades. It is not that a whole new situation is invented or something. It was already how it was, nothing new under the sun.

[Cory]

The Romanian political class will probably be more favourable to a German Prince of the House of Hohenzollern than to the wife of a man who wanted to become president of the republic.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The problem is that the only two daughters with some interest have no offspring, one daughter shows no interest whatsoever and a fourth daughter is barred from the succession. Then the only grandson which showed some interest has been barred from the succession, the two only granddaughters left live their private lives in London resp. Paris and are invisible.

So, it is nice to start about King Michael's daughters, etc. but on the longer term the interests of the House of Romania are best served with ending the unlucky, unneccessary and unilateral decision by King Michael to forget that he is a Prince von Hohenzollern himself. Remember that until seven years ago these "Germans" were simply in the line of succession, as they have been for decades and decades. It is not that a whole new situation is invented or something. It was already how it was, nothing new under the sun.

It was how it was 70 years ago, the last time Romania was a monarchy. Since then, the old constitution has been defunct and it stands to reason that a return to monarchy in Romania will entail a new constitution in itself.
One factor that should not be overlooked, is that a royal restoration in Romania will be news all over Europe, if not globally, as it is a very, very rare occurence, and it will be scrutinized, commented and criticized from many sides. If you add into the mix, bypassing an existing Royal Family to find a male heir among its forefathers, it will raise far too many uncomfortable questions that a government wanting to be re-elected etc, will not want to face. Here's a few examples:
'What is so wrong with the Romanian Royal Family that they need to be overlooked when your government is seeking to restore the monarchy?'
'Does the Romanian government believe that it is right in 2016 that women cannot accede to the throne?'
'Is the government walking backwards into the future, by restoring what many will see as an old-fashioned way of government, and topping that with saying to the world that women cannot do the job, and we will go back in the family tree to get a German prince to fill the role?'
'The monarchy was abolished in Germany in 1918. In Romania it was abolished in 1947. Why does the government feel it is more appropriate to call on a German prince to fill the role of monarch, and not a member of the former Kings own family?'

My point is this: We can argue in circles about who is interested, who is known, who will do a better job etc. The truth is, those views are less interesting than what can practically be expected of a government who has to answer uncomfortable questions, make difficult and controversial choices and be able to both see them through and get itself re-elected.

I am convinced that there will be talks between the government and the RF when the time is ripe to make a choice about putting this question to the people. Those talks will result in the government being given a viable option as to who should ascend the throne in a restored monarchy, and who can take the heritage forward. The family will have to compromise and work with the government and political leaders to find a solution that can be implemented in practice, and I've laid out how I think that will pan out, and the reasons why.

In the end, all of us who wish the monarchy restored, because we truly believe it is a far superior form of government, have to both be realistic, practical and supportive in our approach to these questions, just as both the government and the Royal Family itself has to be.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Forget about a restoration of the monarchy. That will never happen. Read my lips. Remains the headship of the Royal House. Will it sink away in obscurity à la Albania or will it remain one of the most illustrious royal dynasties of Europe, still possessing unbelievable castles and large domains in their House foundations? Will it all end with a Mrs Karina Jones née Medforth-Mills living in a nice property in Poole or something, telling the Daily Mail in 2058 "I am a granddaughter of the last King of Romania" or will it live on in the fascinating legacy of the House Hohenzollern?

When Michael goes his michaelist way, everything will be broken up, auctioned and soon little will be left from Romania's royal history.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

The Romanian political class will probably be more favourable to a German Prince of the House of Hohenzollern than to the wife of a man who wanted to become president of the republic.

I have to say, Cory, that despite it being such an irrelevant argument, because Prince Radu has no role in a restored monarchy other than being a supporter of his wife, here's how you turn something bad into something good:

'Your Royal Highness, X number of years ago, you ran for the Presidency of the Republic. Do you concede that this was a mistake?'
'No, and thank you for the question. When I asked His Majesty, my father-in-law for permission to run for office, I had only one objective in mind: The future of the monarchy in Romania. I believe that our nation will be stronger, both domestically and globally, and that a constitutional monarchy is a far superior system of government than the republic can ever be. It was my wish then, as it is now and always will be, to do my part in showcasing the strengths of the monarchy and the devotion and dedication the family I married into, has for our country. If I was elected as President back then, I would had done everything I could to make sure I was the last one, and that the country would become a monarchy again. By running, what I wanted was to raise the profile of the monarchy, and by extension, the dedication and affection the Royal Family has for Romania. The only regret I have, is that the message was not clear enough from my side, and that I was not able to do more to restore the monarchy earlier.'

I don't believe most Romanians care, at least whomever I am in contact with, about Prince Radu once running for presidential office, and this is where a PR-machine enters the fray: If you want to promote something, reduce the consequences of an error etc., you need public relations people around you, to help you in your task.

A former Royal Family, returning to their homeland, is more often than not, left to their own devices and to try their very best. Sometimes they make mistakes. I just don't think it's the job of royalists and supporters to hold it against them.

[Duc_et_Pair]

I don't know if you are a monarchist or not but you seem to favour running for Karina Medforth-Mills from the UK or running for Elisabeth Biarneix from France, two total commoners to become Queen of Romania than for the Princes of Hohenzollern (like King Michael, like his daughters), royal dynasts, who were in line of succession until only seven years ago according the michaelist view or still are in line of succession according the constitutional view.

It is the same as saying in 1975: Spain has not had a King for so long, the royal Constitution was so long ago. We should go for Sandra Torlonia or her brother Marco Torlonia to become Queen resp. King of Spain, after all Doña Beatriz is senior above Don Juan (the grandfather of the current King). All this changing-how-the-wind-blows is deadly for any monarchical aspiration.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Forget about a restoration of the monarchy. That will never happen. Read my lips. Remains the headship of the Royal House. Will it sink away in obscurity à la Albania or will it remain one of the most illustrious royal dynasties of Europe, still possessing unbelievable castles and large domains in their House foundations? Will it all end with a Mrs Karina Jones née Medforth-Mills living in a nice property in Poole or something, telling the Daily Mail in 2058 "I am a granddaughter of the last King of Romania" or will it live on in the fascinating legacy of the House Hohenzollern?

When Michael goes his michaelist way, everything will be broken up, auctioned and soon little will be left from Romania's royal history.

It's always fascinating to see entries advocating against restoring monarchies on monarchist websites It sort of reminds me of those who comment on youtube-videos: 'I hate your music!'

Always makes me think, if you hate it so much, why do you open the site to listen to it?

I'll always advocate for the restoration of viable monarchies, simple as that. In Romania, the process is at an interesting stage, and that's what is exciting right now. Time will tell how it goes, but that being said, restoring monarchies needs all the help it can get, from everyone who believes it is the right form of government. There is, clearly, enough opposition to face