Succession to the Romanian Throne, Part 1 - Page 11

Cory · #**201** 10-17-2015, 05:22 PM

A dialogue between HM the King and HH Prince Karl of Hohenzollern would be very important at this point but I doubt it will take place.

Cory · #**202** 10-24-2015, 06:17 PM

Trying to avoid the Succession of the Hohenzollerns the King's Family supported the proposal of a new Line of Succession with the descendants of the King. In the last year 4 persons were expelled from this new proposed Line and only in one case there was a Statement about what was happening. So it is not a surprise more royalists start to take into consideration the Succession of the Hohenzollerns only now. Destiny is full of irony. ..

eya · #**203** 10-25-2015, 03:02 AM

Indeed what irony. Do you want to avoid the Hohenzollerns and end up endings to them. Who to wronged royalists who watched closer than ever with Nikolae the possibility of restoring the monarchy and suddenly all these be thrown as air.
I'm starting to think that maybe the succession of their Hohenzollerns is indeed the best solution now.

But it is evident that Romania more than any other country is close to the monarchy. But the problem of succession remains unresolved.

Yes, but the fact is that the Prince Alexander von Hohenzollern is not a descendant of King Mihai. Something that King too wish for it and for this reason created his own line of succession.

Duc_et_Pair · #**204** 10-25-2015, 03:41 AM

It is not an option, according the last royal Constitution and before King Michael started to change it all on discutable grounds, the Hohenzollerns simply are the successors. Period. But: we are all talking about a restoration of the monarchy. That will not happen. Not with Medforth-Mills, not with Biarneix but also not with Hohenzollern.

Cory · #**205** 10-25-2015, 04:42 AM

Obviously you do not know the Romanian realities.

Duc_et_Pair · #**206** 10-25-2015, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

Obviously you do not know the Romanian realities.

Trust me. In the European Union, anno 2015, almost 2016, a new monarchy? That will not happen. For sure not while King Michael is at the end of his life, his eldest daughter Margareta has no offspring, his second daughter Elena showns no interest, his eldest grandson Nicholas is barred, his eldest granddaughter Karina shows no interest, his third daughter Irina and her children are all barred, his fourth daughter Sofia shows no interest, nor does his youngest granddaughter Elisabeth and his youngest daughter Maria has no offspring. Well, well... what a prospect!

LadyRohan · #**207** 10-25-2015, 05:22 AM

It never ceases to surprise me, when monarchists claim the impossibility of restoring monarchies. The Romanian one is not an impossibility at all, but I will say that I see no way at all for the line to pass to any foreign member of the Hohenzollern princely family. They have no connection to Romanian society, the head of the princely family and his heir have made it clear that their family is not interested in the Romanian throne, and that Romania has a RF. Who and how succession will work in that family, can be sorted, and will fall into place, if the institution of monarchy continues to undergo its current renaissance.

If you want to invoke the EU in any way when it comes to the change from republic to monarchy in any member state, I think the most relevant intervention they would make, would be to make it clear that in this day and age, salic law has no place. And H.M the King of the Romanians has a more than large enough family to build succession around, when that day comes.

And I'm fairly sure it will. If you watch Romanian society closely, the winds are blowing in that direction.

**MAfan** · #**208** 10-25-2015, 05:33 AM

I suppose that the problem of the succession will have to be settled after the Monarchy is restored (if it will ever be).
I mean, I don't think that - in case of a restoration - it will be just fine to reinstate the old 1923 Constitution and the rules it provided. Most likely everything will have to be rediscussed.

LadyRohan · #**209** 10-25-2015, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan

I suppose that the problem of the succession will have to be settled after the Monarchy is restored (if it will ever be).
I mean, I don't think that - in case of a restoration - it will be just fine to reinstate the old 1923 Constitution and the rules it provided. Most likely everything will have to be rediscussed.

Hear, hear. I think the comparison can be drawn to most European contemporary monarchies: if for example, something were to happen to the entire RF of a country such as Sweden or Norway, I don't think for a moment one could just import the closest geneological relative from Germany, Denmark or France and continue the monarchy. The very instituion is emotional, and the population needs a bond with their RF, for it to work. That is the job former ruling houses must do, build up that emotional bond again, to eventually be wanted back as reigning dynasties.

**MAfan** · #**210** 10-25-2015, 06:37 AM

I do agree with you on this point. That's why I'm so skeptical about the Hohenzollern ssuccession. It may be the legitimate one according to the 1923 Constitution, but this isn't enough at all to justify their possible accession to the Romanian throne.
I think it is more likely the scenario of Nicholas Medforth Mills called back by the Romanian parliament (or by whoever will be in charge to decide) to be King of Romania, in spite of his recent exclusion from the succession, rather than the Hohenzollerns called to be Kings of Romania just because the old Constitution said so.

Duc_et_Pair · #**211** 10-25-2015, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean80

[...] I see no way at all for the line to pass to any foreign member of the Hohenzollern princely family. They have no connection to Romanian society [...]

Hmmm....

Had Nicholas Medforth-Mills (born in Switzerland and raised in the United Kingdom) any "connection to Romanian society" before King Michael changed the succession ?

Does his sister Karina Medforth-Mills (born and raised in the United Kingdom), still in the michaelist line of succession, have any "connection to Romanian society" ?

And does his cousine Elisabeth Biarneix (born and raised in France), still in the michaelist line of succession, have any "connection to Romanian society" ?

The answer is: no. All three of them were virtually unknown to the general Romanian society. When King Michael changed the succession, a program was started to make Nicholas Medforth-Mills, pardon, Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills, pardon, Prince Nicolae of Romania (now back to "Nicholas Medforth-Mills") known to Romanian society. And slowly, after a couple of years, the face of this young man indeed became known to wider Romanian society.

I fail to see why Prince Alexander von Hohenzollern, son of Prince Karl Friedrich and of Princess Alexandra von Hohenzollern née Countess Schenk von Stauffenberg and No II in the constitutional line of succession, would not succeed in that. When a Swiss-born British commoner with no any historic link can do it, then a German Prince whose House has delivered all Romanian Kings, the current one included, can do it for sure.

Cory · #**212** 10-25-2015, 10:06 AM

This time you are completely right.

LadyRohan · #**213** 10-25-2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Hmmm....

Had Nicholas Medforth-Mills (born in Switzerland and raised in the United Kingdom) any "connection to Romanian society" before King Michael changed the succession ?

Does his sister Karina Medforth-Mills (born and raised in the United Kingdom), still in the michaelist line of succession, have any "connection to Romanian society" ?

And does his cousine Elisabeth Biarneix (born and raised in France), still in the michaelist line of succession, have any "connection to Romanian society" ?

The answer is: no. All three of them were virtually unknown to the general Romanian society. When King Michael changed the succession, a program was started to make Nicholas Medforth-Mills, pardon, Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills, pardon, Prince Nicolae of Romania (now back to "Nicholas Medforth-Mills") known to Romanian society. And slowly, after a couple of years, the face of this young man indeed became known to wider Romanian society.

I fail to see why Prince Alexander von Hohenzollern, son of Prince Karl Friedrich and of Princess Alexandra von Hohenzollern née Countess Schenk von Stauffenberg and No II in the constitutional line of succession, would not succeed in that. When a Swiss-born British commoner with no any historic link can do it, then a German Prince whose House has delivered all Romanian Kings, the current one included, can do it for sure.

You fail to acknowledge the point that I try to illuminate; the emotional bond. Mr. Medforth-Mills is the only grandson of H.M the King of the Romanians. It is a far easier bond to show to the Romanian people, than any distant German relation.
The argument for restoring a monarchy in a nation or not in 2015 and onwards, will not be made based on an old constitution. If Romania restores the monarchy, it will more than likely be under a new constitution entirely, one that places men and women of royal birth equally in a line of succession, that will be decided before the institution is restored. I am not sure why it is even argued that a distant German line to a sovereign nations Royal Family is eligible to inherit a throne that will logically be occupied by the progeny of the current King.

Furthermore, it continues to ignore the express sentiment given by the Hohenzollern Princely family, that the Romanian throne is not in their future, that they do not claim it and that they will not entertain an offer to sit on it. That should end that debate right there.

The King of the Romanians has 5 daughters, 5 grandchildren and 3 great-grandchildren. To imply that the Romanian Royal Family won't continue because the Crown Princess does not have children, is simply untrue and does nothing to advance the cause of monarchy in Romania.

When it comes to 'importing' mr. Medforth-Mills and have him accepted as a legitimate heir, and use that as an argument to import a distant and unwilling relation from Germany, ahead of other members of the actual Romanian Royal Family, seems to confuse the facts. The Kings grandson, Nicholas, stood on the balcony in Bucharest when the Royal Family was welcomed home over 20 years ago. He is his grandfathers only grandson. It wasn't much of a leap to accept him as legitimate, and a natural part of the RF, for Romanians interested in and curious about the monarchy. I am still convinced that he will have a role in the future of the Romanian monarchy, when it once again is a kingdom. What that role will be, only time will tell.

Cory · #**214** 10-25-2015, 11:30 AM

You seem to forget the King had two grandsons not only one and it was the King who did not want any of them to continue the mission of the Family.
The Hohenzollerns have never officially given up something they do not have yet.

LadyRohan · #**215** 10-25-2015, 05:35 PM

We could keep this debate going around and around, based on many different historic events, both in Romania and Germany. When King Ferdinand reigned, his elder brother, Prince Wilhelm, renounced any rights his house of Hohenzollern had to the Romanian throne. When King Michael first abdicated, his father decreed that the throne would revert to the Hohenzollern branch, in the event no heirs was produced in the Romanian Royal Family. That was in 1927, 90 years ago.

I do not believe for a moment that the Romanian Royal Family would be sidelined for a German Princely family that gave an heir to the kingdom of Romania in the middle of the 19th century, and I cannot see the logic behind it at all. In this day and age, no monarchy will be restored in Europe, sidelining women completely, of that I am sure. If Crown Princess Margareta can be accepted as her fathers successor, so can the rest of the women in the Royal Family.

Cory · #**216** 10-25-2015, 06:03 PM

First of all the Parliament will decide to change or not the Line of Succession.
Secondly the Romanians will rather accept a German Prince than the two grandaughters of the King.

Benjamin · #**217** 10-25-2015, 06:10 PM

There is no proof that the latter claim has any validity.

Cory · #**218** 10-25-2015, 06:45 PM

The Parliament will have to decide.

Al_bina · #**219** 10-25-2015, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

... [snipped]
Secondly the Romanians will rather accept a German Prince than the two grandaughters of the King.

Why will Romanians accept a German Prince as their King? Are Romanians that desperate to have a King?

I for one believe that Romanian should not change anything and continue to live in a semi- presidential republic.

LadyRohan · #**220** 10-25-2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

First of all the Parliament will decide to change or not the Line of Succession.
Secondly the Romanians will rather accept a German Prince than the two grandaughters of the King.

There is no evidence to support such a claim, and it contradicts any logic. There is a Royal Family in Romania. No parliament would restore the institution and bypass the entire family in the process, and there is no public opinion that would accept such a move, unless there were strong and visible ties to the new RF that would be imported. There are no such ties to a distant German family who once provided a King to the country.

France provided the Swedish kingdom with a King once. Denmark provided Norway with one a century ago. I doubt anyone would argue that they could be replaced by a member of their original family tomorrow, most likely not even in the case of the extinction of a Royal Family. To think that an existing Royal Family would be sidelined at a restoration, strikes me as a personal gripe against the RF and not founded in logic and contemporary thinking.