Romanian Succession, Claimants, Titles and Restoration

[Cory]

The unified state created in 1859 continued with the traditional monarchical form of government and got fully independence in 1877 under Carol I.
Republic started with the communists and the first president was Ceausescu.

[Duc_et_Pair]

I don't know how valid that argument is. Russia, Austria, France, Portugal, etc. were monarchies for centuries and centuries. All these countries are republics now.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I don't know how valid that argument is. Russia, Austria, France, Portugal, etc. were monarchies for centuries and centuries. All these countries are republics now.

We speak about Romanians not about other people. The history of the Romanians has its own peculiarity.
The fact that less than 50% of the population are against a referendum for the restoration of Monarchy is unique among European countries.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

We speak about Romanians not about other people. The history of the Romanians has its own peculiarity.
The fact that less than 50% of the population are against a referendum for the restoration of Monarchy is unique among European countries.

How many pro ? Source ?

But then comes the campaign. And debates. And then the arguments come. The will of the people or the womb of the sister to the current head of the former royal family? Bring Romania forth in the 21st C or back to the 19th C? Choose the candidate who you thinks best or wait for the sister of the current head "making" her own Swiss-born British son a "successor" (again).

My advice is: the former royal family better accepts the current situation as the best they can achieve. A divisive Referendum will only harm their position. They will never win it. Du moment that a royal becomes partisan, his/her case is lost. Ask Simeon von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, whom blew up all his chances by his own hand.

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by Cory

The Parliament won't certainly ask the daughter in law of a politician to become Sovereign taking into account not only the Constitution of 1923 but also everything else.
If the Parliament will see the Hohenzollerns do not want the Throne, Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills could be the only option that could raise support.Another Dynasty is certainly not excluded.
Those supporting the republic on this Forum can be happy at the moment: there is no real debate for the restoration at the beginning of 2018.

I'll eat my hat if the Romanian Parliament - in case of a restoration - will offer the throne to the Hohenzollerns.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by MAfan

I'll eat my hat if the Romanian Parliament - in case of a restoration - will offer the throne to the Hohenzollerns.

One of the very popular ideas is to offer the Throne to Prince Charles so why not the Hohenzollerns who are the rightful Heirs?
Realistically speaking the only descendant of the King that has a growing popularity and could represent the future is Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills and the last polls asked people about him and 41% of support was shown. At least he is probably the only descendant of the late King who still really believes in the restoration of Monarchy.

[Somebody]

You might be right except that it would go completely against the deceased king's own wishes who deemed him unfit for this role. So, anyone who says to respect the king should not be pushing the Nicholas agenda.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

One of the very popular ideas is to offer the Throne to Prince Charles so why not the Hohenzollerns who are the rightful Heirs?
Realistically speaking the only descendant of the King that has a growing popularity and could represent the future is Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills and the last polls asked people about him and 41% of support was shown. At least he is probably the only descendant of the late King who still really believes in the restoration of Monarchy.

An approval for someone can not be translated in pro or con monarchy. I think that a Felipe or a Victoria will score high approval ratings but the form of state does not receive a similar score.

It is very possible that a person himself is popular (Victoria, Willem-Alexander, Philippe) but when people are asked: "Would you like to choose the head of state in elections?" that then a majority says "yes" despite the personal popularity of members of the royal family.

I think a Meghan, a Catherine, a Máxima or a Mary are more popular than their partners. However they have no any constitutional role. The same with Nicholas Medforth-Mills. Seems to be a likeable guy. Does not mean that Romanians want to swap for a hereditary succession instead of their own democratic right to chose the candidate they see as the best.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

An approval for someone can not be translated in pro or con monarchy. I think that a Felipe or a Victoria will score high approval ratings but the form of state does not receive a similar score.

It is very possible that a person himself is popular (Victoria, Willem-Alexander, Philippe) but when people are asked: "Would you like to choose the head of state in elections?" that then a majority says "yes" despite the personal popularity of members of the royal family.

I think a Meghan, a Catherine, a Máxima or a Mary are more popular than their partners. However they have no any constitutional role. The same with Nicholas Medforth-Mills. Seems to be a likeable guy. Does not mean that Romanians want to swap for a hereditary succession instead of their own democratic right to chose the candidate they see as the best.

First of all if we speak about Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills it's better to respect his surname.
It is important to understand that the Romanians are not happy with their system.of government and that's why you have so many that want a Monarchy.

Originally Posted by Somebody

You might be right except that it would go completely against the deceased king's own wishes who deemed him unfit for this role. So, anyone who says to respect the king should not be pushing the Nicholas agenda.

There is no proof the late King was ever against his grandson. On the contrary.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

The Parliament won't certainly ask the daughter in law of a politician [....]

For Gods sake, Cory, get off your soapbox and try to live in the real world.

Margareta, Custodian of the Crown, born a royal Princess as the eldest child of a sovereign King and a French Princess deserves more respect from someone who claims to support the concept of monarchy and the legitimacy of royalty, and not be reduced to ‘the daughter in law’ of someone you choose to dislike.

There is absolutely no support in Romanian political circles for any detached-from-reality Hohenzollern avenue. It would equally never, ever be seen in the wider population as legitimate to go hunting in Germany for a royal that has been without a recognized title for a century, to replace the Royal Family of Romania, who lives, works and champions all things Romanian, just because a few zealots and faux friends decide that they don’t like the re-branding of regal titles in Romania that His late Majesty did, or whom the Princesses were allowed to marry.

Yikes.

Parliament will almost certainly consult with the Royal Family and ask them to come up with a proposed heir and functioning line of succession if they put the question of returning to the monarchy at the top of their agenda, before putting the question to the people. That is the only legitimate way to adopt a monarchy in a democracy in 2018, and that is the avenue spoken of behind the Romanian political scene.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

How many pro ? Source ?

But then comes the campaign. And debates. And then the arguments come. The will of the people or the womb of the sister to the current head of the former royal family? Bring Romania forth in the 21st C or back to the 19th C? Choose the candidate who you thinks best or wait for the sister of the current head "making" her own Swiss-born British son a "successor" (again).

My advice is: the former royal family better accepts the current situation as the best they can achieve. A divisive Referendum will only harm their position. They will never win it. Du moment that a royal becomes partisan, his/her case is lost. Ask Simeon von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, whom blew up all his chances by his own hand.

Which source?The last polls of few days ago:

https://www.dcnews.ro/mobile/sondaj-...ui_577834.html

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I would not mind when my country becomes a republic,[...].

We know, monsieur le Duc, we know

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by LadyRohan

We know, monsieur le Duc, we know

I am not advocating it. Like the overwhelming majority of the Dutch we take the monarchy as a fact of life, like a pimple on someone's butt. It is there. Okay.

I make no any illusions about the mindset of the average Dutchie in the street regarding the monarchy. Let us say so: not for nothing the lawmaker was so wise to specifically declare the monarchy as "non-referendable"...


The situation as it is in Romania today is -in my eyes- the best of two worlds.

[Cory]

The situation in Romania is sad. A republic based on a corrupted system whose people prefer to leave the country than to have to witness injustice. What can be seen as " the best" in this republic that lacks legitimacy?
The republican establishment changed its strategy regarding the descendants of the late Royal Family and tried to convince some of them to attend public events organised by the republic in order to silence the desire of the monarchists asking for a restoration.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I am not advocating it. Like the overwhelming majority of the Dutch we take the monarchy as a fact of life, like a pimple on someone's butt. It is there. Okay.

I make no any illusions about the mindset of the average Dutchie in the street regarding the monarchy. Let us say so: not for nothing the lawmaker was so wise to specifically declare the monarchy as "non-referendable"...


The situation as it is in Romania today is -in my eyes- the best of two worlds.

As someone who doesn't really see the virtue of electing a ceremonial leader without real political power anyway, as in constitutional monarchies, I don't agree, but I do see your side of the argument certainly. In my view it simply is preferable to have a ceremonial leader who is trained to do the job and fill the role expected, instead of elevating people who often time corrupt their way to the top etc etc.

As you also point out, the direction Romania is going in at the moment is a triumph in itself for the Royal Family and the memory of His late Majesty, by the RF becoming a more formalized and integral part of institutional life in Romania. If it doesn't lead to a full-scale 'restoration' in the end, it is certainly a better situation for all involved than the more or less completely exclusion of other former royal families from their native lands. It is for sure a situation that the royal dynasties of Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Afghanistan, Russia, Portugal, Austria, Italy, Iraq, Iran, Laos, Vietnam, China, Korea, Ethiopia, France, Georgia, Brazil, Mexico und so weiter, und so weiter can only dream of.

[Frozen Royalist]

Still even if there is a referendum I think there will be a problem with choosing between the now known as House of Romania or Nicholas Medforth-Mills, considering how popular both he and the now deceased King Michael I's oldest daughter are. I don't think Prince Charles would work because, well, he's supposed to become the king of the United Kingdom and the British Commonwealth Realms as we all all know.

Like it or not I honestly believe that the Romanian people, the Romanian parliament at least, are going to have to:

a. Declare the House of Romania as the royal family of the Restored Kingdom of Romania.

b. Establish the House of Medforth-Mills as the new royal family of Romania.

c. Find a new dynasty entirely with little to no relation to the House of Romania/Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.

d. Or not have a referendum/restoration at all.

I do think that Romania can be accomplished in terms of monarchy restoration along with a couple other nations in my opinion. But the problem is that Romanian monarchists are starting to become divided like French monarchists in my opinion. What a mess.

-Frozen Royalist

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Frozen Royalist

Still even if there is a referendum I think there will be a problem with choosing between the now known as House of Romania or Nicholas Medforth-Mills, considering how popular both he and the now deceased King Michael I's oldest daughter are. I don't think Prince Charles would work because, well, he's supposed to become the king of the United Kingdom and the British Commonwealth Realms as we all all know.

Like it or not I honestly believe that the Romanian people, the Romanian parliament at least, are going to have to:

a. Declare the House of Romania as the royal family of the Restored Kingdom of Romania.

b. Establish the House of Medforth-Mills as the new royal family of Romania.

c. Find a new dynasty entirely with little to no relation to the House of Romania/Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.

d. Or not have a referendum/restoration at all.

I do think that Romania can be accomplished in terms of monarchy restoration along with a couple other nations in my opinion. But the problem is that Romanian monarchists are starting to become divided like French monarchists in my opinion. What a mess.

-Frozen Royalist

For the moment there is no debate in the Parliament on such issues.
There is not such a thing like the House of Medforth Mills.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Frozen Royalist

Still even if there is a referendum I think there will be a problem with choosing between the now known as House of Romania or Nicholas Medforth-Mills, considering how popular both he and the now deceased King Michael I's oldest daughter are. I don't think Prince Charles would work because, well, he's supposed to become the king of the United Kingdom and the British Commonwealth Realms as we all all know.

Like it or not I honestly believe that the Romanian people, the Romanian parliament at least, are going to have to:

a. Declare the House of Romania as the royal family of the Restored Kingdom of Romania.

b. Establish the House of Medforth-Mills as the new royal family of Romania.

c. Find a new dynasty entirely with little to no relation to the House of Romania/Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.

d. Or not have a referendum/restoration at all.

I do think that Romania can be accomplished in terms of monarchy restoration along with a couple other nations in my opinion. But the problem is that Romanian monarchists are starting to become divided like French monarchists in my opinion. What a mess.

-Frozen Royalist

The House of Romania is already the recognized Royal Family in Romania, and no other avenue is realistic or spoken of in serious political circles. If Nicholas is included into a proposed line of succession, it won't create a new Royal House of Medforth-Mills (*giggle*), but will be a strict continuation of the Royal Family itself, to which Nicholas has always belonged.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Frozen Royalist

Still even if there is a referendum I think there will be a problem with choosing between the now known as House of Romania or Nicholas Medforth-Mills, considering how popular both he and the now deceased King Michael I's oldest daughter are. I don't think Prince Charles would work because, well, he's supposed to become the king of the United Kingdom and the British Commonwealth Realms as we all all know.

Like it or not I honestly believe that the Romanian people, the Romanian parliament at least, are going to have to:

a. Declare the House of Romania as the royal family of the Restored Kingdom of Romania.

b. Establish the House of Medforth-Mills as the new royal family of Romania.

c. Find a new dynasty entirely with little to no relation to the House of Romania/Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen.

d. Or not have a referendum/restoration at all.

I do think that Romania can be accomplished in terms of monarchy restoration along with a couple other nations in my opinion. But the problem is that Romanian monarchists are starting to become divided like French monarchists in my opinion. What a mess.

-Frozen Royalist

The Romanian royalists are divided because of the different attempts to silence them and make them accept the republican establishment.

[JR76]

What kind of attempts and why have they led to the royalists becoming divided?