Romanian Noble and Princely Families

[Cory]

Mihail Sturdza, descendant of a princely family and historian, believes the image of the King was affected by the communist propaganda and many Romanians do not know what to believe about the Sovereign:

http://www.digi24.ro/magazin/timp-li...precisa-845832

[Cory]

Neagu Djuvara, well known diplomat and historian and descendent of the ancient Gradisteanu family, passed away today. May he rest in peace!


http://m.adevarul.ro/cultura/istorie...fb7/index.html



https://www.flux24.ro/neagu-djuvara-a-murit/

[Cory]

The funeral of Neagu Djuvara will take place Sunday the 28th of January at the Greek-Catholic Cathedral of Bucharest and will be presided by HE Monsignor Mihai Fratila, Bishop of Bucharest:

Înmormântarea istoricului Neagu Djuvara | Eparhia Greco-Catolică "Sf. Vasile cel Mare" de București

[Cory]

Prince Alexandru Ioan Cuza was declared post mortem member if the Academy:

Alexandru Ioan CUZA a ajuns ACADEMICIAN. Din cartea de istorie, în cel mai înalt for științific

[Cory]

The chapel were many members of the Callimachi Princely Family are buried is at Stancesti near Botosani:

Povestea criptei princiare secrete din nordul extrem al României. Lângă ea a fost construit unul dintre cele mai frumoase palate din secolul al XIX-lea

[Katrina22]

Hello all! I am new to the forum, and have a life-long interest in Royal families world-wide. Today I have a rather strange question regarding Romanian nobility. Perhaps someone with knowledge of Romanian aristocracy will have an idea for me!

When I was 18 years old (1979) I went to Munich, Germany to work as an au pair with a German family. One summer evening, shortly after I'd arrived, I was stopped on the street by a very well-dressed gentleman who asked me the way to the U-bahn stop. He spoke to me in German and I responded in German, though it was clear that it was not his native language. I showed him where the stop was located and he asked me if I'd like to meet for dinner later that evening. I agreed.

We had dinner at an outdoor cafe along one of Munich's broad streets. He told me that he was a Count, originally from Romania. I believe he said that "count" was not exactly the correct term for his title, but it is what we would call it in English. He was very refined and obviously had money, so I tended to believe him, though of course I was skeptical. Since I spoke no Romanian and he very little English, we conversed in German. I remember he told me he could speak French, but my French was weak.

After a lovely dinner and a long and friendly discussion, we went for a walk along the row of shops that lined the avenue. He ushered me into a women's clothing shop and insisted on me trying on various tops, hats, scarves and he bought several items for me, though I protested, thinking "oh boy, he's going to want some pay-back for this!"

We stopped at a jewelry shop and he bought me an exquisite necklace, an aquamarine stone with tiny diamonds on either side. Again I protested, but he poo-pooed me and said that it was his pleasure and was only a thank-you for a pleasant dinner companion.

Needless to say, I was nervous when he escorted me back to my apartment (I did not live with the family for whom I was working) and insisted on going up to my floor. I unlocked the door and turned, prepared to be firm and tell him that he could not come in. I hadn't said a word when he simply took my hand, kissed the back of it, kissed my wrist and said "it has been a most wonderful evening, thank-you", and he left!

As you can probably guess, I'm trying to find out who this gentleman may have been! As I said, it was 1979 and I was 18. He was older than me, but I would say in is twenties or early thirties. He did tell me his name at the time and the name of his home in Romania, but of course I've forgotten. He mentioned waiting out the "course of history" to be able to reclaim the family residence and told me of all the countries he had lived in over the years.

Anyone have a clue as to who this mysterious Romanian Count may have been? It is a treasured memory of mine, and I would love to know.

Can't wait to see if anyone has a thought on this!
Kat

[Ralf]

Originally Posted by andrew

Actually Alexandru Ioan Cuza had no legitimate descendants, only two illegitimate sons, who died fairly young: Alexandru and Dumitru. Their mother was Elena Catargi.
Her legitimate wife, she was also called Elena, was related to the noble families of Sturdza, Bals and Cantacuzino. But unfortunately she couldn't bear him a child.

I have a question regarding the parents of Alexandru Ioan Cuza, namely Ioan Cuza and Soltana (of the noble family) Cozadini. Do you - or does someone else perhaps - know the exact dates and places where they were both born, died and got married?

[Katrina22]

Aww, 15 months later and no response on my Romanian Count? Surely someone is familiar with Romanian nobility? Anyone?

[Blog Real]

Romanian nobility:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cate...anian_nobility

Romanian noble families:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cate...noble_families

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Katrina22

Aww, 15 months later and no response on my Romanian Count? Surely someone is familiar with Romanian nobility? Anyone?

The Romanians do not have a comparable system of Nobility (Peerage) with West-European countries, consisting of Dukes, Marquesses, Counts, Viscounts, Barons and Knights.

The reason is simple: there was no King of Romania conferring titles of Nobility. The Romanian Nobles with comparable titles have been created by the Holy Roman Empire, by the Emperor of Austria/King of Hungary, by the Tsar of Russia and by the King of Poland.

For a major part of it's history Romania was Russian (Moldova) or Austria-Hungarian (Transylvania). The current Royal House of Romania is only from 1881 and is a junior branch of the German princely House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. In this short existence it saw the Russian Revolution of 1917, the toppling of the Russian, Austria-Hungarian and German thrones. Finally in 1947 the monarchy was toppled by the Communists.

In this short period (less than 70 turbulent years with two World Wars, revolutions and a Communist coup) no own Peerage of Romania has been established. There certainly are castles and domains in Romania, but the original owners all were ennobled in a foreign peerage, the royal family included. Only on May 10th 2011 King Michael and his five daughters denounced their German princely rank, style, surname and title. Since then the family holds the surname De Roumanie, with the title Prince (Princess) of Romania and the prefix HRH.

We can say they are the sole Romanian création.

[andrew]

There are many counts in Transilvania and the Western parts of Romania, which were part of the kingdom of Hungary until 1918 from the 9th century. They are mostly of Hungarian origins but there were a few of Roman origins, too. Bethlen, Károlyi, Teleki, Bánffy, Kalnoky, Mocsonyi, Nako, Rhédey to name but a few of them. Many of them left the country after the second World War, so you might have encountered one of them.
În Wallachia and Moldova the nobility were named boiars. Cantacuzino, Știrbei, Calimachi, Ghica, Șuțu, etc

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by andrew

There are many counts in Transilvania and the Western parts of Romania, which were part of the kingdom of Hungary until 1918 from the 9th century. They are mostly of Hungarian origins but there were a few of Roman origins, too. Bethlen, Károlyi, Teleki, Bánffy, Kalnoky, Mocsonyi, Nako, Rhédey to name but a few of them. Many of them left the country after the second World War, so you might have encountered one of them.
În Wallachia and Moldova the nobility were named boiars. Cantacuzino, Știrbei, Calimachi, Ghica, Șuțu, etc

The families you name: Bethlen (Hungary and Slovakia), Károlyi (Hungary), Teleki (Holy Roman Empire and Hungary), Bánffy (Hungary), Kálnoky (Hungary), Mocsonyi (Hungary), Nákó (Hungary), Rhédey (hungary and Slovakia), Cantacuzino (Byzantine Empire), Știrbei (Poland), etc. all are from present-day Romania indeed, but all of them have their Adelsbrief from another (foreign) country.

[An Ard Ri]

Have many Romanian noble families had properties/estates returned to them?

I'd imagine that much of the Romanian Nobilty were dispersed during the Communists years.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Have many Romanian noble families had properties/estates returned to them?

I'd imagine that much of the Romanian Nobilty were dispersed during the Communists years.

While I can't reply to your question I have this article writing about the issue to share

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft....d-26294ad519fc

[Somebody]

BBC also published an article (in 2014) on a few families that had their castle returned to them.

[An Ard Ri]

I'd imagine a lot of the properties are in a bad state of neglect having been unoccupied for decades.

[Katrina22]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The Romanians do not have a comparable system of Nobility (Peerage) with West-European countries, consisting of Dukes, Marquesses, Counts, Viscounts, Barons and Knights.

The reason is simple: there was no King of Romania conferring titles of Nobility. The Romanian Nobles with comparable titles have been created by the Holy Roman Empire, by the Emperor of Austria/King of Hungary, by the Tsar of Russia and by the King of Poland.

For a major part of it's history Romania was Russian (Moldova) or Austria-Hungarian (Transylvania). The current Royal House of Romania is only from 1881 and is a junior branch of the German princely House of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. In this short existence it saw the Russian Revolution of 1917, the toppling of the Russian, Austria-Hungarian and German thrones. Finally in 1947 the monarchy was toppled by the Communists.

In this short period (less than 70 turbulent years with two World Wars, revolutions and a Communist coup) no own Peerage of Romania has been established. There certainly are castles and domains in Romania, but the original owners all were ennobled in a foreign peerage, the royal family included. Only on May 10th 2011 King Michael and his five daughters denounced their German princely rank, style, surname and title. Since then the family holds the surname De Roumanie, with the title Prince (Princess) of Romania and the prefix HRH.

We can say they are the sole Romanian création.

Yes, this gentleman did not say he was a Romanian Count (that was my term), and he said that "count" would not be the exact term, but probably how I would refer to his title in English. He also said that he attended school in France, and that he had hopes that his family might be restored to their land, estate, or something like that, which was IN present-day Romania. So, as you describe, he could have been Hungarian, Austrian, etc by ethnicity.

[Katrina22]

Originally Posted by andrew

There are many counts in Transilvania and the Western parts of Romania, which were part of the kingdom of Hungary until 1918 from the 9th century. They are mostly of Hungarian origins but there were a few of Roman origins, too. Bethlen, Károlyi, Teleki, Bánffy, Kalnoky, Mocsonyi, Nako, Rhédey to name but a few of them. Many of them left the country after the second World War, so you might have encountered one of them.
În Wallachia and Moldova the nobility were named boiars. Cantacuzino, Știrbei, Calimachi, Ghica, Șuțu, etc

Yes, Andrew, this could have been the case. If only I remembered his family name! Or even whereabouts his "land" in Romania was, though I'm not sure he told me precisely where it was anyway. Thanks for your input.

[Katrina22]

Originally Posted by Somebody

BBC also published an article (in 2014) on a few families that had their castle returned to them.

Lovely! Thank-you!

[Katrina22]

Originally Posted by JR76

While I can't reply to your question I have this article writing about the issue to share

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft....d-26294ad519fc

Sorry, just goes to a subscription page for me.