Romanian Castles, Palaces and Residences


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Cory said:
The proofCotroceni has never been a private property of the Royal Family is obvious: no King spoke about it in his will as a private property.
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That is not the same as a castle being private or not.
Property owned in the name of the Crown is transferred automatically and does not need a will. The King who built it probably didn't envisage a communist takeover.
 
Cotroceni has never been a private property of any King. That's the big difference with Peles and Pelisor.
 
Cory said:
Cotroceni has never been a private property of any King. That's the big difference with Peles and Pelisor.
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For every answer, you keep changing the premise of the comment.
The words you're using now were not the ones that I answered, as you said: 'this and that palace have always been the property of the State'. It was not whether or not the palace was 'private property'.

Well, the state was monarchical, King Carol I had Cotroceni Palace built and designated it to his heirs.
In plain English, that means that it was intended to be occupied and used by his heirs.
150 years ago, the Crown, the State and the Royal House were not easily distinguishable, so this debate is circular and pointless.

One cannot always separate in black and white what belongs to a Royal Family and what belongs to the state in a monarchy. That is part of why so many settlement processes have been complicated, and that is the background of Cotroceni.
It was built by a King, it was given a royal purpose and then the monarchy was abolished.
 
Only a part of the buildings at Cotroceni were built during the time of Carol I because there was the ancient monastery of Prince Serban Cantacuzino.
The goods of the Crown were not private property of any King and they were only used by the Royal Family. The members of the Royal Family had private property and that was very clear different from the goods of the Crown.
Cotroceni was established by King Carol I as future official residence of the Crown Princes of Romania and that happened only with Crown Prince Ferdinand and His Family before 1914.
 
Cory said:
Only a part of the buildings at Cotroceni were built during the time of Carol I because there was the ancient monastery of Prince Serban Cantacuzino.
The goods of the Crown were not private property of any King and they were only used by the Royal Family. The members of the Royal Family had private property and that was very clear different from the goods of the Crown.
Cotroceni was established by King Carol I as future official residence of the Crown Princes of Romania and that happened only with Crown Prince Ferdinand and His Family before 1914.
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So basically there's no disagreement here. Great! :)
 
There was some years ago a nice book about the history and today realitues of Cotroceni Palace.
 
They have it because of a 2001 law, which granted the use of Elisabeta Palace as an official residence for King Michael, Queen Anne and Crown Princess Margareta (not sure if also Prince Radu) during their lifetime.
 
Not sure Prince Radu. What will happen then after the Crown Princess?
 
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I honestly don't know, but I don't think that any plan has been made by now. The Palace will return to be at disposal of the Romanian State, in theory.
 
Last week, a number of photographs were taken of the Elisabeth Palace Garden showing the late Spring plants and flowers:

Grădina Palatului Elisabeta, în primăvară | Familia Regală a României / Royal Family of Romania

A rough translation of the article:

The 18th May will be the 16th Anniversary from when Elisabeta Palace became a royal residence again following the fall of communism and during that time, the gardens of the palace have been tended by staff as well as King Michael, together with teachers and students of the University of Agricultural Sciences and Veterinary Medicine of Bucharest.

Elisabeta Palace Gardens hosts the annual garden party on 10th May, and guests will be able to see the huge variety of shrubs, trees and flowers. Since 2008 the idea of "Memorial Tree" came about whereby dignitaries visiting the Palace plant a commemorative tree (such as the Maple tree planted by the Prince of Wales in May 2011).

The Palace was inaugurated in 1937 and trees planted back then are still growing (including a Japanese cherry tree) amongst the well kept grasses and sculptures made from stone and metal.
 
I am not so impressed by the gardens of Elisabeta Palace, there seems no real coherent idea of a landscape behind it, but I am happy with every tree and every flower.

:)
 
It's true, the gardens are not as impressive or have such impact visually as those found at grander palaces or estates, where formality and landscaping is the key and the gardens are as embellished as the interiors!

Nonetheless, the gardens are lovely and spacious and I always liked the idea of the memorial trees being planted by visitors.
 
Article by Alexandru Muraru, appeared in Timpul magazine, August 14, 2017

"Villa Sparta today, in Florence, between history and indifference
I was yesterday to look again for the third time in the last seven years, Sparta Villa in San Domenico di Fiesole (Via Fontanela 21, located behind San Domenico Church) near Florence, home of Queen Mother Elena between 1933 and 1980! . Every time I see this place, I have a feeling of sadness over the memory of this extraordinary Queen of the Romanians.

Every time I see this place, I have a feeling of sadness over the memory of this extraordinary Queen of the Romanians.

The address is quite easy, the locals of San Domenico de Fiesole (a satellite of Florence) know of "Villa Sparta". There is now no commemorative plaque to remember the years when MS Queen lived. In 2013-2014, when I was at the head of the National Heritage Institute, along with Andrei, who was then headed by IICCMER, I took the initiative to do so. The Royal House and the Muncipality here, through the consulate, agreed and advanced a lot. Including the text of the commemorative plaque had been agreed with the Royal House. Once IICCMER has changed, everything has been abandoned, nothing has been done.
Those in the Romanian community here in Florence (quite a lot, made up in the last 15 years) with whom we talked do not know about this detail and were very surprised to find that in these places where they settled, Spent much of her life, the Queen of Romania.

It is also regrettable that the Romanian authorities have not even thought of recovering the memory of one of the greatest Romanian female figures. This shows the media of the Romanian diplomacy in general, with a functional vision, without any imagination or initiatives of any kind. As I said, the Romanians in Florence know nothing about the history of the villa or about the connection between these places and the Queen Mother, but they would certainly be proud if the mother MS King's memory would be recovered. It would be a part of their identity, so perforated and shattered today across Europe. They would also be proud if in the coming years - with the goodwill of the Florentine authorities - a street or a market would bear the name of Queen Mother Elena of Romania.

Villa Sparta can be considered by far the second cradle of the Romanian monarchy in exile, after Versoix. This place has been a place of pre-eminent aristocratic history over the last 400 years, but the glory of the place is far from after 1933, when Princess Elena of Greece and Denmark, then Queen Elena (1896-1982) The huge garden. The name of the villa reminds of the Queen's mother's Greek origins. The complex is restored in the interior and exterior (Architects and Landscape Architects Cecil Pinsent and Petro Porcinai) since 1935 and becomes an important point of Italian cultural life and European royal houses.

Because of the severe financial difficulties faced by the royal family of Romania after 1948, Queen Mother Elena had to mortgage the building in the 70's. The disease and lack of resources determined the sale of the Sparta villa in 1980, this decision deeply affecting the Queen , Which hastened his suffering and end. Including Queen Ana had testified that she had to sell the family jewels together with King Mihai to be able to keep the villa, but with no success.

Villa Sparta is today the same majestic place, vibrant and full of the history of royalty. The main building and service building were later transformed into seven apartments, some with large areas (over 500sqm) and the surrounding garden grounds. Some of these apartments are today on the real estate market for sale or rent. The most expensive apartment sells about 5 million euros."


Vila Sparta astăzi, la Florența, între istorie și indiferență - Alexandru Muraru
 
Is it up for sale again?

I can understand why Queen Helen sold it as the costs must have been quite draining with its upkeep during the long years in exile.
 
I am not sure that many of us can understand Romanian. So perhaps you can enlighten us about the proposed solutions?
 
To give the museum in the total administration of the King's Family who could apply for credea, to give it in administration to the state for a long period of time or to sell it to the state.
 
The restoration of Săvârșin Castle has been completed. It has a fresh new look and at the back side has got longer stairs.

Side 1 old: picture

Side 1 new: picture

Side 2 old: picture

Side 2 new: picture
 
All the works were inspired by the plans used by Queen Mother Elena after 1943.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
I am not so impressed by the gardens of Elisabeta Palace, there seems no real coherent idea of a landscape behind it, but I am happy with every tree and every flower.

:)
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Elisabeth Palace was given to the late King as official residence during this life according to the Law about the former Heads if State. The same law states the members of the family have to leave the residence 60 days after the death of the former head if state:

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www.wowbiz.ro
 
Cory said:
Elisabeth Palace was given to the late King as official residence during this life according to the Law about the former Heads if State. The same law states the members of the family have to leave the residence 60 days after the death of the former head if state:

Principesa Margareta are la dispozitie 60 de zile... | WOWBiz
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In the Bill for a future status of the former Royal House Elisabeta Palace (picture) will remain at the disposal of Princess Margareta. So it is waiting how Parliament will decide on that Bill.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
In the Bill for a future status of the former Royal House Elisabeta Palace (picture) will remain at the disposal of Princess Margareta. So it is waiting how Parliament will decide on that Bill.
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We do not speak about possible controversial bills but about the nowadays legal situation.
 
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Cory said:
We do not speak about possible controversial bills but about the nowadays legal situation.
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Controversial or not, when we are discussing Elisabeta Palace we can not ignore the Bill which grants the former royal family the right to use this residence for free, for a period of 49 years. The Bill has been drafted by Calin Popescu-Tariceanu (the Chair of the Senate) and Liviu Dragnea (the Chair of the Chamber), both from the governing coalition, so we may assume it will meet a majority in both Chambers of Parliament.

https://www.profit.ro/stiri/dragnea...similat-pozitiei-de-fost-sef-de-stat-17381759
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
Controversial or not, when we are discussing Elisabeta Palace we can not ignore the Bill which grants the former royal family the right to use this residence for free, for a period of 49 years. The Bill has been drafted by Calin Popescu-Tariceanu (the Chair of the Senate) and Liviu Dragnea (the Chair of the Chamber), both from the governing coalition, so we may assume it will meet a majority in both Chambers of Parliament.

https://www.profit.ro/stiri/dragnea...similat-pozitiei-de-fost-sef-de-stat-17381759
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If that controversial bill won't pass until February the Family will have to live the building that belongs to the state.
 
Cory said:
If that controversial bill won't pass until February the Family will have to live the building that belongs to the state.
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Ach ja, also "pragmatism" is a word in Romanian language. I am sure that the State and the former royal family will find a workable solution for the "interim period" in between the maximal 60 days after the passing-away of the former head of state and the reading of the Bill in Parliament.

:whistling:
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Controversial or not, when we are discussing Elisabeta Palace we can not ignore the Bill which grants the former royal family the right to use this residence for free, for a period of 49 years. The Bill has been drafted by Calin Popescu-Tariceanu (the Chair of the Senate) and Liviu Dragnea (the Chair of the Chamber), both from the governing coalition, so we may assume it will meet a majority in both Chambers of Parliament.

https://www.profit.ro/stiri/dragnea...similat-pozitiei-de-fost-sef-de-stat-17381759
Click to expand...

Not only will the bill pass, as it has already gone through the proper scrutiny and decision-making, ensuring support, but in a Romania that buried King Michael only days ago, one can safely assume that nobody decent would raise the prospect of evicting the Royal Family from the palaces they have usage of today, and that the law proposed will grant them continued use of for the next half century.

In the interim between formal ascent to the law and the old arrangements, I think we can safely assume that a court in mourning will not be evicted, only to be granted again usage of the same palace as soon as the law has come into effect.
 
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