Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

I am interested in the restoration of Monarchy. I forgot that critisizing the regime and its friends is not welcomed in certain backgrounds.
The torch of Monarchy in Romania is certainly not carried by an ex candidate at the presidential office and by his wife.

Yet again you reveal that you are on a campaign to trash Prince Radu, and because of his choice years ago, his wife as well, even though she is a royal Princess by blood who has done nothing but work for the cause of monarchy, and support her father since her return to Romania.

You can criticize all you want, but as many have pointed out, it's just sad to see the endless campaigning against a person and an institution based on personal taste.
It's contrary to the very concept of monarchy, where one doesn't base the system of government on opinion polls and popularity, but on the continuity and stability of people raised to serve.

[Cory]

I do not have a campaign against anybody. I arrived at a very different conclusion in the last year: all the changes made in the last 9 years were strongly supported by the eldest daughter of the King. She is a very intelligent person and I doubt somebody else could have influenced her in such a way to accept something against her own will. She believes in what she does and even if many monarchists do not share her ideas she continues on her way. She knows the restoration of Monarchy is not easy and she prefers a status quo with the republic. It's her choice that probably does not continue her father's ideas but guarantees her a financial stability and a public visibility.

[MAfan]

Do they really have all that money? I've always understood that King Michael and family have been relatively poor during their exile; now it's true that they got back some estates, but keeping them costs money and - on the contrary - I'm not sure about how much incomess do they grant to the King.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by MAfan

Do they really have all that money? I've always understood that King Michael and family have been relatively poor during their exile; now it's true that they got back some estates, but keeping them costs money and - on the contrary - I'm not sure about how much incomess do they grant to the King.

Until now for years they paid their staff and they organized big events and they travelled a lot. They are not poor at all.

[MAfan]

But for doing this they had (and still have) one source of income, which is the pension paid by the State to King Michael as a former Head of State (in which quality he also gets several other benefits).

[Cory]

Originally Posted by MAfan

But for doing this they had (and still have) one source of income, which is the pension paid by the State to King Michael as a former Head of State (in which quality he also gets several other benefits).

What about the lands/ forests,other properties?

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

Until now for years they paid their staff and they organized big events and they travelled a lot. They are not poor at all.

It's irrelevant what funds they have when it comes to public representation. That's a task performed, and funds provided to ensure it's taken care of in a regal and dignified manner.
That's the cost of any monarchy, and it gives a much better return than any republic ever has.

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by Cory

What about the lands/ forests,other properties?

As I said in my previous post, I don't know if and how much income lands and forests generate. And however the upkeeping of the castles owned by the Royal Family surely must be quite expensive. In addition, there was the recent request by King Michael to be from paying taxes For these reasons I'm wondering if, after all, they are so much rich - in terms of cash - as you described them.
But since the financial accounts of the Royal Family are not public, I don't think we cannot know its exact financial situation.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

What about the lands/ forests,other properties?

The lands and properties owned by the former royal family are not exactly Belgravia in London or the Bois de Boulogne in Paris, money-making properties. To my uunderstanding it are forests, moorlands and agricultural ground. It helps that the costs of staffing in Romania is waaaaay lower than in Northern-Europe but I can not imagine it makes the family rich. They can keep a standard. When King Michael passes away, his fortune has to be divided by his widow and their five children. It will fragment and melt away as snow for the sun. Margarita can not refuse the generous offer, I think.

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

When King Michael passes away, his fortune has to be divided by his widow and their five children. It will fragment and melt away as snow for the sun. Margarita can not refuse the generous offer, I think.

This is also a good point to keep in mind (and to which I have never thought before); and with the death of the King also the incomes from his pension will end.

[CSENYC]

I think that everyone involved in the proposed restoration needs to take a step back and realize:

1. A king is a government employee and, in today's European countries, is democratically accountable. A king is not above the law and is not a deity.

2. Like it or not, Romania is a republic, and working within the republic is the way to accomplish a restoration.

3. Monarchies are desirable for various reasons, such as having a nonpartisan person who does good in society. Focusing on obtaining the benefits of a monarchy can be done even if the monarchy is not the same as it was in, say, 1923 or 1947.

4. Not all Romanian monarchs were desirable: e.g., King Carol II, so restoring the monarchical system of 1923, which fell into dictatorship, may not be desirable.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The lands and properties owned by the former royal family are not exactly Belgravia in London or the Bois de Boulogne in Paris, money-making properties. To my uunderstanding it are forests, moorlands and agricultural ground. It helps that the costs of staffing in Romania is waaaaay lower than in Northern-Europe but I can not imagine it makes the family rich. They can keep a standard. When King Michael passes away, his fortune has to be divided by his widow and their five children. It will fragment and melt away as snow for the sun. Margarita can not refuse the generous offer, I think.

They will be divided if before that moment these properties were not divided otherwise.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by CSENYC

I think that everyone involved in the proposed restoration needs to take a step back and realize:

1. A king is a government employee and, in today's European countries, is democratically accountable. A king is not above the law and is not a deity.

2. Like it or not, Romania is a republic, and working within the republic is the way to accomplish a restoration.

3. Monarchies are desirable for various reasons, such as having a nonpartisan person who does good in society. Focusing on obtaining the benefits of a monarchy can be done even if the monarchy is not the same as it was in, say, 1923 or 1947.

4. Not all Romanian monarchs were desirable: e.g., King Carol II, so restoring the monarchical system of 1923, which fell into dictatorship, may not be desirable.

Nobody denies the country is a republic even the way the country became a republic was not a democratical way.
The problem now is how to restore Monarchy in this situation . The politicians are not really interested and the monarchists need to be more united.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Cory

They will be divided if before that moment these properties were not divided otherwise.

Is it possible in Romania to create foundations/trusts that can consolidate the assets of a family so that these holdings are not divided as such?

[Cory]

I do not know how things are now but let's hope all the 5 Princesses will get equal parts of the inheritance when the time comes. It is important that all the goods remain in the hands of the descedants of the Sovereign.
The Princes of Hohenzollern will have to buy properties in the country if they want to live in Romania.

[Benjamin]

It seems that it is indeed an option to create a trust that can protect the properties that the Royal House possesses for the benefit of its members.

The Romanian Digest No.3 March 2012

The wisest course of action would be to make sure that all of the Princesses are compensated (monetarily, if necessary, for their shares) in an adequate fashion when the time comes. However, all immovable private properties should be put into a foundation that is managed by professionals and whose income is used for the upkeep of the Royal House in Romania. This is what has been done by many non-reigning families in other countries, and it is by far the best solution to insure the continued financial independence of future generations of the Romanian royal family.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

It seems that it is indeed an option to create a trust that can protect the properties that the Royal House possesses for the benefit of its members.

The Romanian Digest No.3 March 2012

The wisest course of action would be to make sure that all of the Princesses are compensated (monetarily, if necessary, for their shares) in an adequate fashion when the time comes. However, all immovable private properties should be put into a foundation that is managed by professionals and whose income is used for the upkeep of the Royal House in Romania. This is what has been done by many non-reigning families in other countries, and it is by far the best solution to insure the continued financial independence of future generations of the Romanian royal family.

This is a matter to be discussed by the 5 Princesses and by the 5 grandchildren of the King. If the grandchildren won't be interested to.live in the country probably all these goods will be sold anyway.
In case of return of Monarchy Peles castle can be bought by the state and become the summer residence of the next King from the Hohenzollern House.

[Benjamin]

Given past history, one may presume that communication in such a large family is not always easy to facilitate.

Princesses Helen, Sophie and Marie joined their eldest sister Crown Princess Margarita for the 10 May celebrations this year; it may be fair to conclude that these four of the sisters have a dialogue. With Irina Walker, it is more difficult to surmise, as she is a private person living in the United States; her children are also private persons, and they would not necessarily be interested in any sort of Romanian inheritance since they are members of the well-endowed Kreuger family. Only the children of Princesses Helen and Sophie are likely to be possible beneficiaries from the Royal Family's fortune in Romania.

Keeping in mind the restitution that was granted to King Michael and the seeming competent ability of the property administrators to manage these assets, I believe that the Royal House will certainly do all that is necessary to guarantee that this legacy remains within the family and as intact as is feasible.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Given past history, one may presume that communication in such a large family is not always easy to facilitate.

Princesses Helen, Sophie and Marie joined their eldest sister Crown Princess Margarita for the 10 May celebrations this year; it may be fair to conclude that these four of the sisters have a dialogue. With Irina Walker, it is more difficult to surmise, as she is a private person living in the United States; her children are also private persons, and they would not necessarily be interested in any sort of Romanian inheritance since they are members of the well-endowed Kreuger family. Only the children of Princesses Helen and Sophie are likely to be possible beneficiaries from the Royal Family's fortune in Romania.

Keeping in mind the restitution that was granted to King Michael and the seeming competent ability of the property administrators to manage these assets, I believe that the Royal House will certainly do all that is necessary to guarantee that this legacy remains within the family and as intact as is feasible.

Even if Princess Irina and her children and grandchildren live in the USA they have to inherit as all the others. There must be equal shares for each of the 5 Princesses.

[Duc_et_Pair]

In England and Wales, when it comes to individuals leaving property in their Wills, the ability to leave any property and assets on death to individuals, entities or organisations, in whatever proportion the deceased desires, is well known.

This is not the case in the rest of Europe, where “forced heirship rules” exist. These rules, which differ in their application across countries, impose succession principals, so that the deceased cannot control how property is passed down to spouses, children or other beneficiaries.

It is roughly known as the Code Napoléon, which ensures equal rights of all children to an inheritance and to give protection to the surviving spouse. ("I leave all my assets to my maîtresse" is impossible on the Continent).