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  #961  
Old 06-19-2016, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Outcome is good for what?Not for the Monarchy!
It's a good outcome for the Royal Family.

Let's face it: only a minority of Romanians want a monarchy. A full restoration is simply not going to happen unless the political situation changes dramatically.

In a situation such as this, the Royal House would typically just fade into obscurity. Look at the Savoys, the German Hohenzollerns, the French royal families and now even the Habsburgs. Their members may be wealthy and have neat histories, but they are just common citizens.

Further, King Michael's children (except Princess Margareta) unfortunately have not really done much of anything to merit a restoration, and even she married Radu, who I understand is not very well liked. So the fate of the Royal House of Romania would not be promising.

Despite this, and even though Romania has no real need for yet another high-level government position (it has a head of state, a head of government, etc. already), the Royal Family is about to be given official recognition and large salaries. The Royal Family is guaranteed officially-sanctioned prominence and wealth. If the Royal Family is savvy, even though restoration is very unlikely, it could use its new official position as a launching pad to getting more and more duties.

We also need to remember that royal duties change. The British Royal Family has a very different role now than it did 100 years ago; the Swedish royal family has been reduced to a purely ceremonial job with no power at all; and other royal families have seen similar reductions in their power and influence. Romania's Royal Family should view this as a further evolution of their role--but despite the tide of history, it's a strengthening of its position.

If I were Princess Margareta, I'd be happy with that.
  #962  
Old 06-19-2016, 03:06 PM
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Obviously this Family does not really seem very interested in putting the restoration of Monarchy on the first place.
To be envolved in the life of the society they do not need a law but a law in the republican legislation just subordinate them to the republic. It is of course their choice and the people must understand this. The royalists should continue their campaign for the Monarchy on their own supporting the Hohenzollerns.
  #963  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:13 PM
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So now you are advocating an entirely new monarchy in Romania based on finding a member of the Hohenzollern family willing to take the Romanian throne, after having it offered by a majority of Romanian politicians, and finding support among a majority of Romanians? This is so cloud cuckoo land that it's pointless to take serious.
There is only one way the monarchy can be restored in Romania, and that is to actually restore the Royal Family. The process of starting that would be to formally acknowledge their current role, and find an appropriate place for them to exist within, in the state of Romania today.
From there, the Royal Family can re-establish their bonds with Romania, a process they are well underway with these days, and when the King passes away, more sentiment will flow to the Crown Princess and the future of the Royal dynasty, and more people will be aware of their presence.

There is no way, none what so ever, to establish a brand new monarchy in a European country today, if you overlook Belarus (where the 'Presidents' son is being groomed as heir), based on fetching an heir from another country to take over a throne that is abolished, in an existing republic. It simply will not happen.

The ONLY way to establish monarchies in democracies today, is to restore existing Royal Houses to the function they once held, that they are educated and prepared for, and that the population feel or can be made to feel a connection with.

If you're a friend of the monarchy as an institution, I really would advocate realism. The more strength we can put behind the one way forward which has some possibility, the more chance it stands.

Dividing support for the same cause is just counterproductive and pointless.
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  #964  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:49 PM
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The royalists advicate to restore the Line of Succession to the role before 1947. To be a part of the republican regime as an institution is completely the opposite.
  #965  
Old 06-19-2016, 04:59 PM
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'The royalists' is not a uniform group, and the succession line was abolished in 1947 and will never be restored. There is one way forward for a monarchy in Romania, and it is along several lines at once. One is to improve knowledge of the Royal Family and the monarchical representatives in Romania. Another is to establish the Royal House as an institution with relevance again in the country. A third is to showcase to everyone within the country what the Royal Family represents, and what monarchy can do for the country.
Nothing else will benefit the monarchy, and will only serve to undermine the cause, and make it seem to those on the outside with less interest in the issue, that people are spending more energy sabotaging each other than uniting in a common goal.
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  #966  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The royalists advicate to restore the Line of Succession to the role before 1947. To be a part of the republican regime as an institution is completely the opposite.
That is not a realistic goal and will not be accomplished in the near future.

It's best to pick a minimum acceptable and achievable goal. Restoring the Royal Family to an official and prominent role as described in the proposed legislation, although different than its role before 1948, is achievable, and is about to be achieved.

As I've said, duties of royal families change over time. Even the duties of the US President and Vice President have changed over time and are probably somewhat different than in 1947. Life goes on, and it's impossible for anyone to have exactly the same life and job that s/he had in 1947.
  #967  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:04 PM
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The royalists should unite their efforts to promote the Monarchy ignoring those members of the King's Family that want their Family to be a structure of a stronger republic.
  #968  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:07 PM
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The King is too frail to really get involved in this story.
But that doesn't mean necessarily that he doesn't agree with the idea of reaching the agreement with the government, does it?
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  #969  
Old 06-19-2016, 05:40 PM
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But that doesn't mean necessarily that he doesn't agree with the idea of reaching the agreement with the government, does it?
Who could really know that?
  #970  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:01 PM
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Who could really know that?
If we all, you included, are admitting that none of us know the thinking of the King, we have already taken a step forward.
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  #971  
Old 06-19-2016, 06:50 PM
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The King has always wanted the restoration of Monarchy.
  #972  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:39 PM
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Important royalist personalities like Doina Cornea (symbol of the fight against communism during Ceausescu regime), Acad. Alexandru Zub, Prof. Dr. Nicolae Constantinescu, Prof. Dr. Nicolae Șerban Tanașoca, artist George Tzipoia,Lect. Univ. dr. Viorel Burlacu and leaders of the Movement for Kingdom and Crown like Marilena Rotaru and others and leaders of the Monarchist Clubs like Dr. Dan Marinca and others signed a Petition asking the President.Government, Parliament and political parties to stop the project regarding an institutional role of the Royal House in the republic. In the same time they ask Princess Margareta not to accept it either:


"Din respect pentru Rege și pentru martirii închisorilor comuniste.
Din respect pentru poporul român, a cărui voinţă a fost călcată în picioare în decembrie 1947 la simulacrul prin care a fost abolită Monarhia şi Constituţia din 1923 de către o adunare (ne)reprezentativă, și din respect pentru Majestatea Sa Regele Mihai, considerăm că a sosit momentul unei clarificări care să repună în drepturi adevărul. În lipsa unor asemenea acţiuni orice încercare de introducere a unor jumătăţi de măsură este strict politicianistă, cu un substrat perfid preelectoral şi trebuie taxată ca atare.
Iată de ce ne manifestăm deschis îngrijorarea față de acțiunea Partidului Social Democrat, moștenitor direct al fostului partid comunist, autorul înlăturării prin teroare și forță a Monarhiei din România, de a da o nouă lovitură Coroanei, asimilând-o unei instituții republicane. Tentativa actuală a partidului, al cărui președinte de onoare este Ion Iliescu, se înscrie în continuarea acelorași demersuri aplicate din 1990 Regelui Mihai, când a fost, nu o dată, împiedicat să revină în Țară, prin acțiuni de sorginte sovietică.
”Astăzi, o colaborare cu regimul instalat la putere, spunea Regele Mihai într-o convorbire cu Philippe Viguié Desplaces, mi se pare nerealistă. Totul ne desparte. Mentalitățile noastre, viziunea pe care o avem despre țara noastră și despre viitorul ei sunt diametral opuse. (…) Monarhia constituțională a fost suprimată în 1947, de către o putere străină și agenții locali ai acesteia, fără ca poporul să-și poată spune cuvântul. A accepta această abolire ca un fapt împlinit, înseamnă a conferi legitimitate întregii perioade comuniste, fiecăruia dintre actele sale. Comunismul nu are nici un fel de legitimitate în România și, în consecință, aplicarea forțată a abdicării mele din 1947 este nulă și neavenită.”
Ce alt argument mai solid pentru demonstrarea faptului că instituționalizarea Casei Regale înseamnă legitimarea abdicării forțate și ilegale a Regelui Mihai la 30 decembrie 1947?!
Dacă Partidul Social Democrat s-ar fi delimitat de trecutul său întunecat, și-ar fi dorit să-și exprime respectul și prețuirea pentru Majestatea Sa Regele Mihai, n-ar fi trebuit decât să restabilească normalitatea, cinstea și moralitatea: adică să pledeze pentru restaurarea monarhiei. Bunele intenții față de Monarhie, ale PSD-ului și ale oricărui alt partid politic pot fi probate prin trei gesturi prealabile, teste ale unei bune credinţe faţă de Insituţia Monarhică şi faţă de poporul român:
1) Declararea zilei de 10 Mai ca zi națională și sărbătoare a independenței cu zi liberă.
2) Revenirea la drapelul național cu stema în forma votată de parlament în 1922
3) Revizuirea Constituției cu eliminarea aliniatului 3 din art. 152 (forma republicană nu poate fi revizuită).
Cine s-a opus vreme de 25 de ani acestor gesturi firești? În primul rând, PSD-ul.
Singurul act de referință la reglementările din Statutul Casei Regale, susținut și evocat de nenumărate ori de Regele Mihai, este Constituția din 1923. Numai Parlamentul transformat în Adunare Constituantă poate, împreună cu Casa Regală, să aprobe acest statut, după acceptarea amendamentelor ce se impun în textul Constituției monarhice. Altfel, atâta vreme cât România este republică, Statutul Casei Regale, cu modificările Regelui Mihai (din 2007 și august 2016) este funcțional doar în interiorul Familiei Regale.
Monarhia nu a fost niciodată abolită în România prin voința liber exprimată a poporului. Acum, prin formule juridico-administrative, care nu sunt decât expresia mascată a unei tranzacții de cumpărare, asistăm la încercarea principalului partid politic din România de a compromite nu doar Statutul Coroanei, ci toată jertfa Regelui Mihai în anii exilului, ca și a poporului român, care nu a iubit niciodată comunismul. Întregul neam românesc a rămas, prin coloana sa vertebrală reprezentată de cei care au avut curajul să i se opună cu prețul vieții și al celor două milioane de destine frânte în închisori, lagăre și deportări sau exilați la marginea societății, dar și prin toată ființa sa - străin de regimul de ocupație sovieto -comunist. Românii nu și-au părăsit nici în acei ani de teroare credința în Dumnezeu și Rege. Monarhia a unit. Republica a dezbinat și a terorizat, iar în zilele noastre se dovedeşte incapabilă de a reintroduce normalitatea în ţară (legi stabile şi planuri pe termen lung, care să fie respectate indiferent de culoarea politică a guvernanţilor).
Avem speranța că, după o adâncă și dreaptă cumpănire, în respectul față de înaintași și față de deviza Casei Regale, Nihil sine Deo, Alteța Sa Regală, Principesa Margareta, Custodele Coroanei, va ține departe acest dar otrăvit. Scenariul pus la cale de principala forță politică din țară, prin care aceasta se revendică încă o dată drept o formațiune politică neocomunistă este menit să anihileze pentru todeauna Monarhia și jertfa tuturor celor care și-au sfârșit zilele pentru Țară și Rege.
Contribuția Monarhiei la clădirea României moderne, democratice și prospere, valoarea sa de patrimoniu istoric și spiritual, nu poate fi anulată printr-un gest care este deopotrivă o tentativă de subminare a prestigiului Coroanei și de aservire a Casei Regale.
Solicităm Președintelui României, Guvernului, și, nu numai PSD-ului, ci și tuturor partidelor politice implicate în această "instituţionalizare republicană" a Casei Regale, și tuturor instituțiilor statului să păstreze limitele decenței și respectului pentru ceea ce a însemnat și înseamnă Regele Mihai și Coroana României și să înceteze demersurile anunțate public.
Singura schimbare de care are nevoie acum România este revenirea, pe calea cea mai dreaptă, la monarhia constituțională.
Trăiască Regele!"

Doina Cornea Č™i mai multe personalitÄƒČ›i ACUZÄ‚ vânzarea Casei Regale
  #973  
Old 06-23-2016, 08:58 AM
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I wonder in what fantasy these figures live? Phantasialand? They should sink on their bare knees and thank the republican government for acknowledging the historic role of the former royal family and give them semi-official role. What alse are these folks expecting? My eyes are rolling with disbelief! I hope Princess Margarita is wise enough to grab the opportunity with both hands!
  #974  
Old 06-23-2016, 09:38 AM
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Despite the protests of the royalists the government published today the project of law regarding an institutional role of the "Royal House" in the republican state. The project was prepared by the government and by the Elisabeta Palace. The public debate starts only now and many could think if such a law is not against the constitution.

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I wonder in what fantasy these figures live? Phantasialand? They should sink on their bare knees and thank the republican government for acknowledging the historic role of the former royal family and give them semi-official role. What alse are these folks expecting? My eyes are rolling with disbelief! I hope Princess Margarita is wise enough to grab the opportunity with both hands!
These Romanian personalities want the restoration of Monarchy and not a law that closes the possibility for a restoration. They are very respected intellectuals and they know very well what their country really needs.

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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
That is not a realistic goal and will not be accomplished in the near future.

It's best to pick a minimum acceptable and achievable goal. Restoring the Royal Family to an official and prominent role as described in the proposed legislation, although different than its role before 1948, is achievable, and is about to be achieved.

As I've said, duties of royal families change over time. Even the duties of the US President and Vice President have changed over time and are probably somewhat different than in 1947. Life goes on, and it's impossible for anyone to have exactly the same life and job that s/he had in 1947.
So accepting to give up the restoration of Monarchy and work as an "institution" of the republic?This is not only absurd but probably even against the republican Constitution.

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

I wonder in what fantasy these figures live? Phantasialand? They should sink on their bare knees and thank the republican government for acknowledging the historic role of the former royal family and give them semi-official role. What alse are these folks expecting? My eyes are rolling with disbelief! I hope Princess Margarita is wise enough to grab the opportunity with both hands!
Do you know who is Doina Cornea?Do you know who is Alexandru Zub?Do you know who is Marilena Rotaru?How can you speak like this about personalities widely respected by the Romanians?
  #975  
Old 06-23-2016, 12:33 PM
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No I do not know them but my estimation from the sideline is that a restoration will never happen. Then you have to make an assessment and count the blessings. A republican government in a former communist dictature is acknowledging the role of the monarchy, which ended more than 70 years ago. They eventually want to provide in budget, in staffing and in organization? Boy... grab it with both hands and use this "level" to consolidate a new position as Royal House and go furtherer, maybe to another level.

The stance of the die-hard monarchists is: "No, we do not want a semi-official position in the republic. We want restoration of the monarchy!" The English have a great saying for that: "Pennywise but poundfoolish".
  #976  
Old 06-23-2016, 12:41 PM
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No I do not know them but my estimation from the sideline is that a restoration will never happen. Then you have to make an assessment and count the blessings. A republican government in a former communist dictature is acknowledging the role of the monarchy, which ended more than 70 years ago. They eventually want to provide in budget, in staffing and in organization? Boy... grab it with both hands and use this "level" to consolidate a new position as Royal House and go furtherer, maybe to another level.

The stance of the die-hard monarchists is: "No, we do not want a semi-official position in the republic. We want restoration of the monarchy!" The English have a great saying for that: "Pennywise but poundfoolish".
You are speaking from abroad and you are judging very important and respected personalities that are Romanians.
Becoming an institution of the republic means to forget all the history of the Royal House and all the ideals of generations. And only for benefits ( a palace free of charge ,funds,etc)...sad...
  #977  
Old 06-23-2016, 12:56 PM
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Well, that's what King Michael has already done some years ago. He is a citizen of the Republic of Romania, officially acknowledged as a former Head of State of Romania and gets some benefits for this reason (a palace free of charges, funds, car, office, etc...).
Yet, I can't recall many protests from the royalists because he has accepted this settlement, officialized by a law of the Republic of Romania approved by the republican parliament (but - still - I'm also one who speaks from abroad and doesn't know the so-called "romanian realities").

Besides that, personally I find interesting and funny that those who have screamed for years that each and every Romanian constitution approved after the 1923 one were illegal acts, unlawfully approved, that "de iure" Romania should still be considered as a parliamentary monarchy, etc etc etc, are now worried that a law could possibly not be in compliance with the last (and current) of those constitutions.
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  #978  
Old 06-23-2016, 01:07 PM
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The King has always wanted the restoration of the Monarchy and he has never spoken about the Royal House as an institution of the republican system.
  #979  
Old 06-23-2016, 01:08 PM
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Well, that's what King Michael has already done some years ago. He is a citizen of the Republic of Romania, officially acknowledged as a former Head of State of Romania and gets some benefits for this reason (a palace free of charges, funds, car, office, etc...).
Yet, I can't recall many protests from the royalists because he has accepted this settlement, officialized by a law of the Republic of Romania approved by the republican parliament (but - still - I'm also one who speaks from abroad and doesn't know the so-called "romanian realities").

Besides that, personally I find interesting and funny that those who have screamed for years that each and every Romanian constitution approved after the 1923 one were illegal acts, unlawfully approved, that "de iure" Romania should still be considered as a parliamentary monarchy, etc etc etc, are now worried that a law could possibly not be in compliance with the last (and current) of those constitutions.
A republic does not give laws about the Royal Houses. That's an absolute contradiction.
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Old 06-23-2016, 04:52 PM
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And where is it written? Who says so? It is a fact that many republics have laws regarding their former royal houses.
The proposed law would ensure that, after King Michael's death, the Royal Family will continue to have the necessary means to perform their activities; if they play their cards well, they may even succeed to persuade the majority of the Romanians that the monarchy is a useful institution and that the monarchy as a form of government could be a good thing for the country. But without such means, I cannot see how could any restoration happen.
What if the line of the more extremist and "more-royalist-than-the-king-himself" passed? In a few years you'd have the descendants of a former royal house, without any role, without a funcion to perform, without funds. People who, at a point, shoud go to find a job and live their normal, ordinary and private lives. Then please don't complain because they aren't in their (former) country full time to play the King-in-waiting.
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