Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania

[MAfan]

Maybe mine is a silly question, but where exactly is written in the proposed law that it is the republican authorities to decide who is the head of the Royal Family? And exactly in which terms is it written?

 

[LadyRohan]

Maybe mine is a silly question, but where exactly is written in the proposed law that it is the republican authorities to decide who is the head of the Royal Family? And exactly in which terms is it written?

It naturally doesn't say that the Republic has decided who the head of the Royal Family is. It recognizes the choice the King has made, in naming his eldest daughter his heir, so it recognizes the will of the King, and does not on its own, make a decision. It mainly recognizes the Royal House as an actual entity, but it does not deny the Royal House its own sovereign role when it comes to changing the leader of the Royal House at a later stage, or implement other changes.

Casa Regală redevine instituție fundamentală a statului român | Romania Libera

This text explains the background for the law very well, described by lawyers as a very good step to give the Royal Family a much clearer status as a legal entity and not just an idealistic, utopian entity, and describes the fears described by some monarchists as ridiculous fallacies and scaremongering.

The translation of this text in google translate is actually very good and accurate, so anyone who wants more unbiased information about this law proposal and do not read Romanian, can read it here:
https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.romanialibera.ro%2Faldine%2Fmagazin%2Fcasa-regala-redevine-institutie-fundamentala-a-statului-roman-420659&edit-text=

 

[MAfan]

That is also how I have understood it, that the succession to the Headship of the Royal Family will be regulated by a statute issued by the King and - to the purposes of the proposed law - the Head of the Royal Family will be the person designated by that statute.
So, no power granted to the Republic to decide who the Head of the Royal Family is and will be.

 

[Cory]

That is also how I have understood it, that the succession to the Headship of the Royal Family will be regulated by a statute issued by the King and - to the purposes of the proposed law - the Head of the Royal Family will be the person designated by that statute.
So, no power granted to the Republic to decide who the Head of the Royal Family is and will be.

The project speaks about the recognition of the "Head of the Royal House" by the two Chambers of the Parliament. Of course this is a not very subtle way by a republican parliament to try to establish a new Line of Succession in contradiction to the constitutional traditions of the Kingdom of Romania.

 

[LadyRohan]

The project speaks about the recognition of the "Head of the Royal House" by the two Chambers of the Parliament. Of course this is a not very subtle way by a republican parliament to try to establish a new Line of Succession in contradiction to the constitutional traditions of the Kingdom of Romania.

The law, which is not a project, but a law to ensure the Royal House of Romania has certain rights and roles forward, quite naturally recognizes the Head of the Royal House of Romania to be the person designated by the King. It would be a rather absurd situation if parliament did anything else.
As there is no current talk about restoring the monarchy fully in Romania, to speculate on a line of succession is not within the scope of the law, but as it recognizes the Royal House as an entity and the leader as Crown Princess Margareta, that is a statement in itself.

 

[Cory]

This is a project of law which has not arrived to the Parliament yet but there is a public debate about it. It could become law only if voted by the Parliament and promulgated by the president. Let's hope that the public pressure will stop this republican project of ever becoming a law.

 

[LadyRohan]

This is a project of law which has not arrived to the Parliament yet but there is a public debate about it. It could become law only if voted by the Parliament and promulgated by the president. Let's hope that the public pressure will stop this republican project of ever becoming a law.

Let's hope public support for the Royal Family and the monarchy ensures that the law will pass, the Royal Family will receive some of the support and organization that reigning royal families in other countries get and that it leads to an eventual full restoration.

 

[Jacknch]

Is there much general public interest in this proposed law and has there been much on the television news or debate in current affair's programmes?

 

[Cory]

There are different articles in the press very much against the project.At the TV less than in the newspapers.

 

[LadyRohan]

There are many articles, groupings of monarchists and intellectuals that support it, many of the links I've previously posted. It's been reported well on the news, and it's rather interesting to see politicians supporting a process that was unexpected just a year or two ago.
http://www.secundatv.ro/actualitate...-indemnizatie-de-fost-sef-de-stat-35045.html/ (law text can be found a bit down on this link)

 

[Cory]

The credibility of many Romanian politicians is very low and the fact the friends of a certain family supports this project is understandable but we do not speak about monarchists.

Mrs Marilena Rotaru: "Instituționalizarea Case Regale înseamnă supunerea Coroanei pe un loc inferior Casei regale. Mulți sunt foarte entuziaști, spun că acesta este primul pas, dar de fapt este ultimul pas, închide orice posibilitate viitoare a Casei Regale. Mă sperie această lege pentru că ea va închide oportunitatea reinstaurării Monarhiei în România. E cineva care vrea să închidă subiectul. Dacă se adoptă acest proiect, se anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie. " ( "The institututionalisation of the royal House means the putting of the Crown on an inferior place to the Royal House. Many are enthusiastic, they say this is the first step, but in fact this is the last one and closes anyfuture possibility for the Royal House. I am scared of this law because it will close the opportunity of the restoration of Monarchy in Romania. There is somebody who wants to close this subject. If this project becomes reality any chance for the restoration is annuled.")

Marilena Rotaru: Instituționalizarea Casei Regale anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie | REALITATEA .NET



Regarding the restoration of Monarchy Mrs Marilena Rotaru told about an event that could explan a certain attitude:""Am fost chemată de un înalt membru al staff-ului regal și mi s-au spus aceste cuvinte: Ne-ați făcut mult bine, dar acum ne faceți mult rău. Sunteți considerată portavocea Casei Regale, ceea ce nu era adevărat, nu vedeți de ce respect se bucură Casa Regală acum? că s-au retrocedat Peleșul și alte proprietăți... Totul era superb, era ca și cum ne aflam deja într-o monarhie. Mi s-a spus textual: "Nici acum, nici peste 20 de ani, nici peste 50 de ani, România nu va fi monarhie" Erau recomandări venite din interiorul Casei Regale să nu mai facem întruniri. Noi am făcut un draft de Constituție monarhistă și am trimis-o Casei Regale, și ni s-a psus Nu, nici vorbă, în constituția actuală trebuie trecut rolul Casei Regale și atât" (" I was called by a very important member of the royal staff and I was told these words: You did a lot of good to us but now you do a lot of harm. You are considered the voice of the royal House, which was not true, don't you see how much the royal House is respcted now? Peles was given back and other properties... everything was wonderful, it was as if we were in a Monarchy. I was told exacltly@ " ot now, not even in 20 years, not even in 50 years, Romania won't be a Monarchy". There were advises from inside the Royal House not to have meetings anymore. We made a draft of a monarchist constitution and we sent it to the Royal House and we were told : No, not al all, in the nowadays Constitution there must be the role of the Royal House and that's it").

 

[LadyRohan]

The credibility of many Romanian politicians is very low and the fact the friends of a certain family supports this project is understandable but we do not speak about monarchists.

Mrs Marilena Rotaru: "Instituționalizarea Case Regale înseamnă supunerea Coroanei pe un loc inferior Casei regale. Mulți sunt foarte entuziaști, spun că acesta este primul pas, dar de fapt este ultimul pas, închide orice posibilitate viitoare a Casei Regale. Mă sperie această lege pentru că ea va închide oportunitatea reinstaurării Monarhiei în România. E cineva care vrea să închidă subiectul. Dacă se adoptă acest proiect, se anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie. " ( "The institututionalisation of the royal House means the putting of the Crown on an inferior place to the Royal House. Many are enthusiastic, they say this is the first step, but in fact this is the last one and closes anyfuture possibility for the Royal House. I am scared of this law because it will close the opportunity of the restoration of Monarchy in Romania. There is somebody who wants to close this subject. If this project becomes reality any chance for the restoration is annuled.")

Marilena Rotaru: Instituționalizarea Casei Regale anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie | REALITATEA .NET



Regarding the restoration of Monarchy Mrs Marilena Rotaru told about an event that could explan a certain attitude:""Am fost chemată de un înalt membru al staff-ului regal și mi s-au spus aceste cuvinte: Ne-ați făcut mult bine, dar acum ne faceți mult rău. Sunteți considerată portavocea Casei Regale, ceea ce nu era adevărat, nu vedeți de ce respect se bucură Casa Regală acum? că s-au retrocedat Peleșul și alte proprietăți... Totul era superb, era ca și cum ne aflam deja într-o monarhie. Mi s-a spus textual: "Nici acum, nici peste 20 de ani, nici peste 50 de ani, România nu va fi monarhie" Erau recomandări venite din interiorul Casei Regale să nu mai facem întruniri. Noi am făcut un draft de Constituție monarhistă și am trimis-o Casei Regale, și ni s-a psus Nu, nici vorbă, în constituția actuală trebuie trecut rolul Casei Regale și atât" (" I was called by a very important member of the royal staff and I was told these words: You did a lot of good to us but now you do a lot of harm. You are considered the voice of the royal House, which was not true, don't you see how much the royal House is respcted now? Peles was given back and other properties... everything was wonderful, it was as if we were in a Monarchy. I was told exacltly@ " ot now, not even in 20 years, not even in 50 years, Romania won't be a Monarchy". There were advises from inside the Royal House not to have meetings anymore. We made a draft of a monarchist constitution and we sent it to the Royal House and we were told : No, not al all, in the nowadays Constitution there must be the role of the Royal House and that's it").

Seems to me that this one person has gotten more than enough attention in this thread, and to the outsider reader, it could appear as if she is far more important than she is. As has been shown in this thread many times, many monarchist organizations in Romania support the current cooperative attitude of the Royal House and the government, actually achieving results instead of arbitrarily debating outdated points with an expiration date decades ago.
The Royal Family and the government have found a good compromise to bring the current situation of the dynasty in Romania forward. There is no better way to draw attention to the Royal Family when it comes to monarchical aspirations. There is no better way of establishing clear roles and functions for the Royal House, an organization and funding to continue the dynasty after the King.
The law and the process around it is a good thing to have happen in Romania, for the Royal Family and the future of the monarchy most of all, and everyone who wants the monarchy to be restored. It shows that the Royal Family is back in Romania for good, and that they're here, to cooperate, to listen and to serve.

 

[Cory]

For the authentic Romanian monarchists ( but not only for them), Mrs Rotaru is a symbol not only because of her career but because of her support for the Monarchy from the beginning. The King has always appreciated her.
Regarding the attitude of the monarchists regarding the republican project of law both the Movement for Kingdom and Crown and the Monarchists Clubs (leaded by Dr. Marinca) strongly oppose this attempt to damage the cause of Monarchy.

 

[LadyRohan]

For the authentic Romanian monarchists ( but not only for them), Mrs Rotaru is a symbol not only because of her career but because of her support for the Monarchy from the beginning. The King has always appreciated her.
Regarding the attitude of the monarchists regarding the republican project of law both the Movement for Kingdom and Crown and the Monarchists Clubs (leaded by Dr. Marinca) strongly oppose this attempt to damage the cause of Monarchy.

And you keep on professing false truths, as this law does not deny a restoration, nor do any damage to the institution of monarchy, which today does not exist in Romania, but is a wish of some and a working goal of the Royal Family.
No monarchy will be restored in Europe without the cooperation of the democratic government in the respective countries, and Romania is about to take a leap forward in both practical and principled terms.
To some, that's clearly upsetting, but the majority of people in Romania support the Royal Family or do not have an opinion of them, whereas a very small minority revisit female succession issues, issues around government, corruption and every other favourite issue they can rehash to sabotage a cause.

Someone once said, 'the greatest enemy a monarchy has is its supporters'.
I can't remember who, but how very apt it is.

 

[Cory]

The Romanians should be ask directly if they want to support financially the King's Family when the country is a republic. Many have not even heard about this project of law yet but won't certainly be happy to hear.
It is obvious this project is wanted by Elisabeta Palace and is the result of a strategy started few years ago. There is no doubt of that. That's why it is so painful for the monarchists.

 

[LadyRohan]

The Romanians should be ask directly if they want to support financially the King's Family when the country is a republic. Many have not even heard about this project of law yet but won't certainly be happy to hear.
It is obvious this project is wanted by Elisabeta Palace and is the result of a strategy started few years ago. There is no doubt of that. That's why it is so painful for the monarchists.

You're spinning conspiracy theories to fit your own opinion of the Royal Family and the issues around succession. Most people couldn't care less, and those that do would laugh if asked whether the Royal Family should be replaced by an imported German prince.
People are not asked directly what the government spends our money on, that's not how it works. Your claim that many won't be happy to hear that the Royal Family will receive public funding for tasks done, is a self-inflicted wound for the whole cause of monarchy, as that would mean that most won't want the monarchy at all.
Every reigning monarchy is funded by the taxpayers. I think it's very respectful of the government to include the Royal House in a more organized form, especially when they know that people might want to ask them to return to the throne completely, and sideline the republic.

That this law is wanted by the Royal House is not a negative in itself, to spin it as such is just trying to create chaos where none exist.

 

[Cory]

The new communists tried to do everything in the first years after 1989 to stop the King's Family to have any influence in the country in order to avoid any chance for the Monarchy. Now the republican authorities know how to deal with the Kin's Family in order that both parts are happy and the Monarchy is not restored. This strategy is clearly working being opposed only by the monarchists who are not interested in the financial benefits of a family but in the restoration of Monarchy itself.
To say the people should have no word in how the taxpayers money are spent is outrageous and against any democratic rule.

 

[LadyRohan]

The new communists tried to do everything in the first years after 1989 to stop the King's Family to have any influence in the country in order to avoid any chance for the Monarchy. Now the republican authorities know how to deal with the Kin's Family in order that both parts are happy and the Monarchy is not restored.

Just because you repeat a fallacy over and over, does not mean it is a truth.

The law does not prohibit a change of government, doesn't speak about the future of the monarchy at all, and does in no way hinder the choices that lie ahead.
Debate the actual law all you like, but to invent stuff that isn't in it, is just pointless.

 

[Cory]

The Romanian monarchists should be respected even if they disagree with Elisabeta Palace on important issues. The times when communists impose their one accepted ideas is over.

 

[Cory]

The fact that Princess Margareta would be "Crown Princess" is supported by no Constitution of the Kindom of Romania and the term "Custodian of the Crown" has never existed in the Royal House of Romania or in the laws of the Kingdom of Romania either. She is the eldest daughter of the King and the President of the Red Cross. No relevamce whatsoever for the restoration of Monarchy. She is not involved in a public debate asking for the restoration of Monarchy and she is not even very close now with many monarchist associations.
What really matters is how the campaign for the restoration continues, how the monarchist Associations build consensus and how the public opinion reacts.

 

[LadyRohan]

The fact that Princess Margareta would be "Crown Princess" is supported by no Constitution of the Kindom of Romania and the term "Custodian of the Crown" has never existed in the Royal House of Romania or in the laws of the Kingdom of Romania either. She is the eldest daughter of the King and the President of the Red Cross. No relevamce whatsoever for the restoration of Monarchy. She is not involved in a public debate asking for the restoration of Monarchy and she is not even very close now with many monarchist associations.
What really matters is how the campaign for the restoration continues, how the monarchist Associations build consensus and how the public opinion reacts.

There is no serious monarchical campaign that advocates bypassing the Royal Family with regards to succession. She is the designated heir by her father, recognized by the government, politicians, media and most serious intellectuals. That's an heir, regardless of what an abolished law said 70 years ago.
We can start this debate again, or just point out that every argument has been presented before, and move on.

 

[Benjamin]

What is the position of the National Alliance for the Restoration of the Monarchy (ANRM) on the proposed law?

 

[LadyRohan]

What is the position of the National Alliance for the Restoration of the Monarchy (ANRM) on the proposed law?

ANRM, as well as CMC and CMB, have all supported the process of finding a legal framework to establish the Royal House as a legal entity with rights etc., and although their primary positions are to restore the monarchy forthwith, their unwavering allegiance lies with the King, the Custodian and every member of the Royal Family, whom they trust will make right choices forward.

Alianța Națională pentru Restaurarea Monarhiei cere să fie consultată

 

[Benjamin]

ANRM, as well as CMC and CMB, have all supported the process of finding a legal framework to establish the Royal House as a legal entity with rights etc., and although their primary positions are to restore the monarchy forthwith, their unwavering allegiance lies with the King, the Custodian and every member of the Royal Family, whom they trust will make right choices forward.

Alianța Națională pentru Restaurarea Monarhiei cere să fie consultată

Thank you, LadyRohan!

From what one can tell, the ANRM does seem to be one of the larger monarchist organizations in Romania.

It is very encouraging that there are several important groups who support the Royal Family and the idea of Monarchy and who are also pragmatic about the benefits of the law.

Is there any sort of timetable as to how/when the law will be passed?

 

[Cory]

ANRM is certainly not the largest group linked in a way to the idea of Monarchy. Probably the largest monarchist group is the one leaded by Dr. Marinca and called the Monarchist Clubs. The Movement for Kingdom and Crown is quite new.
This project of law has to arrive to the Parliament than needs the advices of different institutions and only then enter in the debate in Commissions and in the two Chambers. Because of the elections at the end of autumn it is probably the project won't arrive to conclusion before the elections. The different mass media reactions of these days (mainly extremely against the project) will be probably again in autumn.

 

[LadyRohan]

Thank you, LadyRohan!

From what one can tell, the ANRM does seem to be one of the larger monarchist organizations in Romania.

It is very encouraging that there are several important groups who support the Royal Family and the idea of Monarchy and who are also pragmatic about the benefits of the law.

Is there any sort of timetable as to how/when the law will be passed?

I quite agree, it is very heartening, and added to that, both major parties in parliament, the Social Democrats (PSD) and the Liberal (PNL) are in favour of the law. The political leaders have repeatedly referred to the timing being right, the monarchy has a strong profile, the 150th anniversary of the monarchy etc. as reasons to make this change now.
There is no date, but the government has said that they will most likely propose this law in an 'emergency session', so it can be implemented as soon as the draft is approved with regards to language and so forth, and that will most likely take slightly longer than the PM has proposed (he said a few weeks a week ago). Parliament will have its next ordinary period of sitting from the start of September, so unless the government recalls members to vote in an emergency session, which I don't think the law needs, it should be voted into effect at the start of September.

 

[Cory]

The Monarchy is not strong in polls taking into account only 25-3o% support it.
The 150 years anniversary since Prince Carol of Hogenzollern started his reign was quite ignored by the majority of the people .
Probably not all the deputees and senators agree with this project and one of those who spoke against it was the young monarchist liberal deputee Daniel Gheorghe. We will see in autumn the real support for this project in the mych contrsted Romanian parliament.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I do agree with Cory's viewpoint regarding the succession. Without active successors the future of the michaelist line seems very uncertain to me. But apart from that, the offer by the Government to acknowledge the former royal family with a semi-official status is too good to refuse. It gives the former royal family a structure to build on. It indeed can give a boost because no longer it are goodwilling people servicing but a transparant and accountable organization. The Hohenzollerns, well to do, have such an organization for centuries. Without structure and professionalism, an aspiring royal family will achieve nothing, no matter the head is Margarita or Karl Friedrich.

 

[Cory]

I do agree with Cory's viewpoint regarding the succession. Without active successors the future of the michaelist line seems very uncertain to me. But apart from that, the offer by the Government to acknowledge the former royal family with a semi-official status is too good to refuse. It gives the former royal family a structure to build on. It indeed can give a boost because no longer it are goodwilling people servicing but a transparant and accountable organization. The Hohenzollerns, well to do, have such an organization for centuries. Without structure and professionalism, an aspiring royal family will achieve nothing, no matter the head is Margarita or Karl Friedrich.

This is a possible arrangement for the members of the King's Family that live at Elisabeta Palace. Hardly their nieces will benefir from it. Nothing to do with the restoration of Monarchy though.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

This is a possible arrangement for the members of the King's Family that live at Elisabeta Palace. Hardly their nieces will benefir from it. Nothing to do with the restoration of Monarchy though.

For a meaningful way to a restoration one needs an organization, a structure, a framework to build on. In my personal assessment exactly this arrangement gives the former royal family 'body' in a republic. Otherwise it would remain stuck in a dependance on goodwill, on gifts, on volunteers. It gives Elisabeta Palace a fundament to build on. Who the residents are in Elisabeta Palace, that is another question. Note that when Prince Karl Friedrich would become the Head of the Royal House of Romania, he would benefit from this arrangement as well.