Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think we must forget any restoration. This Swiss-born British-national will never become King of Romania. The former royal families of Portugal, Romania, France, Germany, etc. are still treated with égards, given a place of honour, are received by the authorities and well-wished by the public. That is what they have.

They still have wonderful historic assets like the Burg Hohenzollern (managed by the Hohenzollern family foundation), the Château d'Amboise (managed by the Orléans family foundation), Castelul Peleş (given back to the former Romanian royal family) and that is it. They will be prominent members of society, living embodiments of a great history and more it will not be. I do not see that Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Portugal suddenly change their republican constitutions.

Note that Greece, in the deepest turmoil of their existence, faced with the most deep economic crisis ever and the core existence of the state rocking on its foundations, there was no any sound to go back to "the good days" (the monarchy). Not even when all politicians were lashed and punished by the electorate, there was not even the most remote call for a return to the monarchy. So if even in such circumstances, the democratically elected polliticians and the republican state só malfunctioning, confronted with só much mistrust, there is no call for a monarchy... we can safely forget any other state to become a monarchy again.

[eya]

Duc et Pair we can always hope so not

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I think we must forget any restoration. This Swiss-born British-national will never become King of Romania. The former royal families of Portugal, Romania, France, Germany, etc. are still treated with égards, given a place of honour, are received by the authorities and well-wished by the public. That is what they have.

They still have wonderful historic assets like the Burg Hohenzollern (managed by the Hohenzollern family foundation), the Château d'Amboise (managed by the Orléans family foundation), Castelul Peleş (given back to the former Romanian royal family) and that is it. They will be prominent members of society, living embodiments of a great history and more it will not be. I do not see that Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Portugal suddenly change their republican constitutions.

Note that Greece, in the deepest turmoil of their existence, faced with the most deep economic crisis ever and the core existence of the state rocking on its foundations, there was no any sound to go back to "the good days" (the monarchy). Not even when all politicians were lashed and punished by the electorate, there was not even the most remote call for a return to the monarchy. So if even in such circumstances, the democratically elected polliticians and the republican state só malfunctioning, confronted with só much mistrust, there is no call for a monarchy... we can safely forget any other state to become a monarchy again.

Do you know the Romanian realities?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

Do you know the Romanian realities?

It would be miraculous if the Romanians would restore the monarchy and a Swiss-born British national suddenly finding himself on a Romanian throne, with his eventual children being hereditary successors... I think the Romanian former royal family may feel very happy with the feelings of respect and the honours to them but no, away with the republic, the republican Constitution, the republican institutions and a firm majority of the Romanians voting for a monarchy? Hmmm... Not very realistic, I may say.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It would be miraculous if the Romanians would restore the monarchy and a Swiss-born British national suddenly finding himself on a Romanian throne, with his eventual children being hereditary successors... I think the Romanian former royal family may feel very happy with the feelings of respect and the honours to them but no, away with the republic, the republican Constitution, the republican institutions and a firm majority of the Romanians voting for a monarchy? Hmmm... Not very realistic, I may say.

Originally Posted by Cory

Do you know the Romanian realities?

Do you think the chance of a restoration would be bigger (however small) if CP Margarita had children of her own or if King Michael had a son?


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[Duc_et_Pair]

I think it does not matter. First a qualified majority (at least 2/3rd) of the Chamber of Deputies and of the Senate has to agree with a proposed change of the Constitution. Then the people of Romania have their say in a referendum on the proposed new Constitution (in this case with the change from republic to monarchy). I can not imagine that 2/3rd of the members of Parliament are in favour of a monarchy, followed by a majority of the Romanians.

I think it is also important that the new Constitution is approved in ALL parts of Romania, that means in Cluj, in Brasov, in Constanta, in Bucharest, in Craiova, in Timisoara, etc. That is not required but look to the referendum in Belgium: King Leopold III won with 58% of the vote but.... in Flanders this was a convincing 72%, in Brussels and Wallonia a little majority voted against. Despite the overall victory nationwide, the King concluded his kingship was no longer 'broadly' supported and abdicated. I can imagine that King Michael or his successors would like to see a majority of the electorate in all parts of Romania. I think that is to far asked in 2015. Even in Romania people have become Republican, after almost 70 years without King.

[maria-olivia]

Please don't compare Belgium in 1950 with Romania nowadays.
Did you forget Grace Berleur tragic Event ? (4 people died !) and the Government's reaction afterwards.

Come on !!

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Please don't compare Belgium in 1950 with Romania nowadays.
Did you forget Grace Berleur tragic Event ? (4 people died !) and the Government's reaction afterwards.

Come on !!

Tsss.... tsss.... calm down... what I wanted to say was that King Leopold III 'won' the referendum with an overall majority nationwide but found out that in the capital and in Wallonia he found no majority. Despite the overall majority he decided that the support for him was not widespread enough and abdicated in favour of Prince Baudouin.

What has this to do with Romania? I think that the monarchists not only need an overall majority nationwide but -analogue to King Leopold III- also a majority in all parts of the country. The support needs to be 'widespread' to have a solid and fertile ground for the new monarchy. That is all what I wanted to make clear.

Merci beaucoup de votre compréhension. (Thank you very much for your understanding).

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It would be miraculous if the Romanians would restore the monarchy and a Swiss-born British national suddenly finding himself on a Romanian throne, with his eventual children being hereditary successors... I think the Romanian former royal family may feel very happy with the feelings of respect and the honours to them but no, away with the republic, the republican Constitution, the republican institutions and a firm majority of the Romanians voting for a monarchy? Hmmm... Not very realistic, I may say.

I just asked you if you knew Romanian realities. The answer is quite evidemt:NO.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

I just asked you if you knew Romanian realities. The answer is quite evidemt:NO.

So you say there is a widespread support for the restoration of the monarchy and any referendum will result in a landslide victory for King Michael?

The "pro-monarchist" candidate in last year's elections for President, Mr Victor Ponta (whom promised a referendum on the matter), was defeated by Mr Klaus Ioannis, the current President.

In my understanding a poll in 2014 showed 45% of Romanians have a ‘very good’ opinion of King Michael. A similar poll in 2013 however made clear that around 30% of the Romanians would consider an eventual vote for the return of the monarchy, meaning that 70% does not consider such a vote at all. Correct me if I am wrong.

[eya]

Only those living in a country know exactly what happening. For example me to living in Greece know that restoration of monarchy is very far far faaaar away if ever happen.Can someone who lives in romania to tell us our aponion?

Exactly JR76 only few greeks have positive memories of the monarchy.And don't forget Duc et Pair if you know under the monarchy came the Dictatorchim in my country.

The king stay in Greece under the dictatorship from april to december1967 and he was unamble to handle this critical situation.We don't want a king only for the good days.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by eya

Only those living in a country know exactly what happening. For example me to living in Greece know that restoration of monarchy is very far far faaaar away if ever happen.Can someone who lives in romania to tell us our aponion?

So even people in Greece, who have seen the once relatively good managed state under the monarchy and witnessed the total chaos and complete mismanagement under the republican constitution, resulting Greece to suffer as never before, still then the majority of the Greeks support the (hopelessly failed) republican state.

With this in my mind, I can not believe that the people of Romania will vote pro-monarchy in a referendum. Why would they? Romania is slowly developing. They are members of EU and NATO. Romanians have the freedom to travel inside the EU and find a job. The nation -almost broke after Communism- is slowly developing. It would really be miraculous to see a monarchy restored. Note that in Spain the monarchy was only restored thanks to the strong arm of a dictatorial government. The people were not asked anything.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

So even people in Greece, who have seen the once relatively good managed state under the monarchy and witnessed the total chaos and complete mismanagement under the republican constitution, resulting Greece to suffer as never before, still then the majority of the Greeks support the (hopelessly failed) republican state.

With this in my mind, I can not believe that the people of Romania will vote pro-monarchy in a referendum. Why would they? Romania is slowly developing. They are members of EU and NATO. Romanians have the freedom to travel inside the EU and find a job. The nation -almost broke after Communism- is slowly developing. It would really be miraculous to see a monarchy restored. Note that in Spain the monarchy was only restored thanks to the strong arm of a dictatorial government. The people were not asked anything.

In the Greek case isn't the big issue that 1. because of his primary actions after the military coup King Constantine where tainted by his conceived acknowledgement of the junta and 2. the monarchy itself was tainted by the ghost of Queen Fredrika. So much so that I've read about how in the referendum of 1973 the republican opposition put of posters with a picture of QF and the slogan "She's coming".
What I mean to say is that few Greeks today have enough positive memories of the monarchy to even consider a restoration.


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[Duc_et_Pair]

Wasn't King Constantine actually involved in a contra-coup d'état (1967) against the military dicatorship but this failed: the junta strenghtened its iron fist on Greece and the King was forced to flee the country?

Did the military dictatorship not do several acts to urge the King to return to Greece? The King refused. The longer the King remained outside Greece, the firmer the grip of Papadopoulos and his ministers and Greece more and more moved towards a republican form of state.

From this I can not conclude that monarchy = military dicatorship. The King did oppose it (but indeed was, in the beginning, playing two cards - and lost it all). In Romania King Michael initially also played two cards but his coup d'état against the dictatorship (Antonescu) at least succeed.

Anyway, the kingship of King Michael is almost 70 years ago, so I am curious to see if there is a feeling of "back to the old days" under the Romanians.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Wasn't King Constantine actually involved in a contra-coup d'état (1967) against the military dicatorship but this failed: the junta strenghtened its iron fist on Greece and the King was forced to flee the country?

Did the military dictatorship not do several acts to urge the King to return to Greece? The King refused. The longer the King remained outside Greece, the firmer the grip of Papadopoulos and his ministers and Greece more and more moved towards a republican form of state.

From this I can not conclude that monarchy = military dicatorship. The King did oppose it (but indeed was, in the beginning, playing two cards - and lost it all). In Romania King Michael initially also played two cards but his coup d'état against the dictatorship (Antonescu) at least succeed.

Anyway, the kingship of King Michael is almost 70 years ago, so I am curious to see if there is a feeling of "back to the old days" under the Romanians.

I based my previous post on what I've read here and there and a interview with King Constantine where he talked about being criticised for posing on a picture with the junta. I know about his counter-coup but I didn't know that they tried to make him return.


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[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

So you say there is a widespread support for the restoration of the monarchy and any referendum will result in a landslide victory for King Michael?

The "pro-monarchist" candidate in last year's elections for President, Mr Victor Ponta (whom promised a referendum on the matter), was defeated by Mr Klaus Ioannis, the current President.

In my understanding a poll in 2014 showed 45% of Romanians have a ‘very good’ opinion of King Michael. A similar poll in 2013 however made clear that around 30% of the Romanians would consider an eventual vote for the return of the monarchy, meaning that 70% does not consider such a vote at all. Correct me if I am wrong.

The support for the Monarchy is growing while this is not the case for the republic. The majority are not decided yet but the popularity of the King is higher than ever in the last 25 years and his grandson is more and more popular with the new generations. No candidate was royalist but both president and prime minister respect the Royal Family a lot and none of them is against Monarchy.

[eya]

Cory because i believe you know more about the realities to Romania what is your opinion for the restoration of monarchy unestly?

Thanks Cory you answer me.I have me too that feeling and i believe that prince Nicolae is helping a lot the monarchy.

Prince Karl of Hohenzollern i think he is not interested adout the monarchy in Romania. But if ever happen who knew what he is doing then.

[Cory]

In 1990 the majority of the population was strongly against the King and the Monarchy. In the last 4 years the popularity of the King's Family is a reality and the politicians are very respectful generally towards the Sovereign. Around 30 % of the population is in favour of Monarchy and without any real campaign. In few years the Monarchy has real chances to be restored.

[Cory]

The King's grandson represents the only hope for the restoration of Monarchy. Prince Karl of Hohenzollern is less known and less interested.

[Cory]

Prince Karl is almost unknown to the majority of the Romanians even if theoreticallly he would be the Heir according to the Constitution of 1923. The King's grandson is more and more popular and lives in the country.