Nicholas Medforth-Mills (formerly His Royal Highness Prince Nicholas of Romania)

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Nicholas' surname has been "de Roumanie" for years.

But, carry on with ignoring reality.

Serves many quite well.

You worded it correctly: "has been"...

King Mihai withdraws grandson Nicholas

After ceasing to be a member of the defunct Royal House, he reverted to the style he had before becoming a royal: Nicholas Medforth-Mills.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Nicholas' surname has been "de Roumanie" for years.

But, carry on with ignoring reality.

Serves many quite well.

In that case, why did the royal family's website, his Facebook account, and the title of this thread refer to him as Nicolae de Roumanie Medforth-Mills or Nicholas Medforth-Mills?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

You oppose the changes in the line of succession: cutting the House of Hohenzollern out. At the same time you seem to see Mr Medforth-Mills as only reliable candidate. Did I understand this correctly?

He can only be a candidate when he is re-instated back into the michaelist line of succession which you seem to oppose. So you are not clear in what you want. Hohenzollern? Or Medforth-Mills?

I see him helping the monarchist cause but not in a "Line" contrary to the Constitutions of the Kingdom of Romania.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

I see him helping the monarchist cause but not in a "Line" contrary to the Constitutions of the Kingdom of Romania.

So basically you're saying that Nicholas should work towards restoring a Hohenzollern to the throne, a member of a family who has not once shown any interest in the Romanian throne since its abolition, a family who has, for going on a century, not been part of Romanian civic life? In other words, you want him to sabotage his own family, his own claim to the throne and be a spokesperson for somebody who has stated that the throne of Romania is an issue for the Romanian Royal Family (the family Nicholas belongs to). How would he justify his own title of Prince if that would be his position again, while advocating that his grandfather, the King, and the Custodian, his aunt, were not the rightful Royal Family and heirs?
That is a recipe for ridicule if ever there was one, nobody would respect him for it in the general public and it would just seem like he is sabotaging his own family as revenge for being demoted last year.

I just don't get how something so absurd can even be advocated.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

You worded it correctly: "has been"...

King Mihai withdraws grandson Nicholas

After ceasing to be a member of the defunct Royal House, he reverted to the style he had before becoming a royal: Nicholas Medforth-Mills.

Nicholas Medforth-Mills was the shortened version of his full name, which was and is Nicholas Michael de Roumanie Medforth-Mills.

[Cory]

Mr Medforth Mills could never be a member of the Royal Family taking into account the Constitutions of the Kingdom of Romania. He can support the country and the monarchist cause.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by LadyRohan

So basically you're saying that Nicholas should work towards restoring a Hohenzollern to the throne, a member of a family who has not once shown any interest in the Romanian throne since its abolition, a family who has, for going on a century, not been part of Romanian civic life?[...]

That is an unfair comment in my opinion as to the very present day a Hohenzollern is head of the Royal House of Romania. That after 90 years (!) of being a Prinz von Hohenzollern Michael suddenly decided to sever the ties (2011) does not change that fact.

Until the new democratic regime in 1990 Romania was a closed fortress for foreigners. We can not blame Michael von Hohenzollern or Friedrich Wilhelm von Hohenzollern (the previous Fürst) for not having had interest in Romania. It was impossible to be of any use in Romania under Ceaucescu.

When Romania became a democracy, naturally the Romanian Royal family (Michael, Anne and their children) were the focus and the previous and current Fürst von Hohenzollern were wise and polite enough not to seek the limelight. What else can one expect? Prince Karl Friedrich or his son Prince Alexander walking around in Bucharest and doing official things or so, while fellow Hohenzollerns reside in the Elisabeta Palace? As long as King Michael does not invite them, introduce them, they can not be blamed for being invisible, low key or "not interested".

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

That is an unfair comment in my opinion as to the very present day a Hohenzollern is head of the Royal House of Romania. That after 90 years (!) of being a Prinz von Hohenzollern Michael suddenly decided to sever the ties (2011) does not change that fact.

We can not blame Michael von Hohenzollern...

That is equally unfair, incorrect and again, a fallacy, as you are reducing a former King, whose highest-achieved title is the one he is to be referred by, His Majesty, King Michael I of the Romanians, and not your constant 'Michael von Hohenzollern', which is neither his name, nor his title, nor his title of pretense, nor his highest title that he gets to use for life, as per royal, diplomatic and curteous custom.

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

When Romania became a democracy, naturally the Romanian Royal family (Michael, Anne and their children) were the focus and the previous and current Fürst von Hohenzollern were wise and polite enough not to seek the limelight. What else can one expect? Prince Karl Friedrich or his son Prince Alexander walking around in Budapest and doing official things or so, while fellow Hohenzollerns reside in the Elisabeta Palace? As long as King Michael does not invite them, introduce them, they can not be blamed for being invisible, low key or "not interested".

There is no evidence anywhere that any Hohenzollern has not been invited to Romania, so that is an assumption you cannot make. Unless you have access to leaked correspondence or other evidence that any Hohenzollern wanted an invite to a function in Romania and was denied, that argument is not valid and should cease being used.
Like any German, any Hohenzollern is free to travel to Romania, just as any other citizen of the EU, and there has been no private or public visit to Romania by any of them.

The only facts we know, are the ones that have been published, 1) by Prince Karl, who stated that the succession to the Romanian throne was a matter for the Romanian Royal Family, and that his family had no interest in it and
2) that the King issued a proposed new line of succession that he encouraged parliament to consider, nothing untoward and only a proposal, that the republican government clearly is approving of, as they are now accepting the Crown Princess as heir to the dynasty and Royal House of Romania, upon her fathers illness, and with the negotiated deals made into law this summer, concerning the Royal House.

That firmly establishes who is the Royal Family of Romania onwards, and while I have no basis to claim that no Hohenzollern will again be invited to sit on the Romanian throne, it is beyond unrealistic, and while we have no evidence today of Nicholas being invited into the royal fold again, it seems unwise of the Royal Family not to, all the while he is quite literally the only future member of the Romanian Royal Family who has the stature and the interest to date of being what Romanians might want him to be, a monarch.

All that being said, we can speculate until winter has come, and gone, about what will happen to Nicholas, and that is what this particular thread is about, but to say that he should be a tool for monarchists who seek to displace his own family in a monarchic future in Romania, is both disrespectful and with all due respect, a ridiculous stance to take.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

That is an unfair comment in my opinion as to the very present day a Hohenzollern is head of the Royal House of Romania. That after 90 years (!) of being a Prinz von Hohenzollern Michael suddenly decided to sever the ties (2011) does not change that fact.

Until the new democratic regime in 1990 Romania was a closed fortress for foreigners. We can not blame Michael von Hohenzollern or Friedrich Wilhelm von Hohenzollern (the previous Fürst) for not having had interest in Romania. It was impossible to be of any use in Romania under Ceaucescu.

When Romania became a democracy, naturally the Romanian Royal family (Michael, Anne and their children) were the focus and the previous and current Fürst von Hohenzollern were wise and polite enough not to seek the limelight. What else can one expect? Prince Karl Friedrich or his son Prince Alexander walking around in Bucharest and doing official things or so, while fellow Hohenzollerns reside in the Elisabeta Palace? As long as King Michael does not invite them, introduce them, they can not be blamed for being invisible, low key or "not interested".

Some people ignore these realities.

I do not suppose Mr Medforth Mills met any of the Princes of Hohenzollern in Line to the Romanian Throne.

Different members of the Hohenzollern Princely House visited Romania after the fall of communism but they never attended an event organized by the King's Family.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

Some people ignore these realities.

And some people ignore other realities.

[Cory]

Even if he never plays in role in the country again he will always be remembered as a young person who brought a lot of sympathy towards His Family and brought new hopes.

[Duc_et_Pair]

When Nicholas, son of Robin Medforth-Mills and of Princess Elena of Romania, was born in Geneva, 1985, he was registered as Nicholas Medforth-Mills in the civil registry of the Helvetian Republic (Switzerland).

On a certain moment he became Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills. Was this an official change in the civil registry in Switzerland, or the United Kingdom, or Romania? On base of which legistlation and by which authorization was this all done?

For five years he was HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania. That must have been a purely fictional title as I assume in no any civil registry in Switzerland, or the United Kingdom, or Romania this style was used? If yes, on base of which legistlation and by which authorization was this all done?

[Cory]

So which is his official surname now?

[LadyFinn]

Originally Posted by Cory

So which is his official surname now?

According to the official website of the Royal Family of Romania (at the page of Order of predecence), his name is now Nicholas-Michael Medforth-Mills. His sister is Elisabeta-Karina de Roumanie and the children of Irina Walker are Michael and Angelica de Roumanie Kreuger. And Sofia's daughter is Elisabeta Maria Biarneix...
Ordinea de precădere

[Cory]

His official surname is that one written in his passport.

[Nice Nofret]

... the same since his birth. Never changed - like all the rest. Whatever they CALL themselves, these titles do not exist in the real world.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

For five years he was HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania. That must have been a purely fictional title as I assume in no any civil registry in Switzerland, or the United Kingdom, or Romania this style was used? If yes, on base of which legistlation and by which authorization was this all done?

The King is entitled to bestow titles and styles or honours on anyone in his family as it pleases him. So Nicolae´s former title was not fictional nor fake at all!

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

The King is entitled to bestow titles and styles or honours on anyone in his family as it pleases him. So Nicolae´s former title was not fictional nor fake at all!

In the republican passport we see Moritz Prinz von Oettingen-Oettingen und von Oettingen-Wallerstein. In the royal passport (UK) we see Nicholas Michael Medforth-Mills. Not De Roumanie Medforth-Mills. Not Prince of Romania.

In that sense the royal titles used in Romania are not real. Another example, seen from the other perspective: Michael and his daughters are Prince (Princess) von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. After having had that title for 90 years, Michael decides to scrap it.

Nice. But cán he scrap it? Maybe for himself. Can he also scrap it for his five adult daughters living in different countries? And the title Princess of Romania. Most likely that is in Irina's passport (Swiss?). Michael has no any authority. Not in Romania, not in Switzerland, not in the UK. With other words: it is all Spielerei.

[Jacknch]

We appear to be having a similar conversation in two threads. Let's stick with discussing Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills here please.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Nice. But cán he scrap it? Maybe for himself. Can he also scrap it for his five adult daughters living in different countries? And the title Princess of Romania. Most likely that is in Irina's passport (Swiss?). Michael has no any authority. Not in Romania, not in Switzerland, not in the UK. With other words: it is all Spielerei.

Irina's passport is American (USA). Her legal last name is Walker.