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  #1981  
Old 01-16-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalJewelish View Post
I think we all know who the only heirs are, and their right is the natural succession which king Michael paved.. there is no dispute, I think you should also accept it and move on :)
With utmost respect, but this is worthless arguing. I fall over the word rightful ( = having a right to a property, a position, or a status on base of legislation). What is the base for the claimed right?

The Constitution of the Kingdom Romania (Karl Friedrich von Hohenzollern):
this is pretense on base of a Constitution which is no longer enforced.

The "Fundamental Rules" with a proposed succession (Margareta):
this is pretense on base of a private document without jurisdiction

The fact of someone being the most senior male agnate of the former royal family (Paul-Philipp):
this is pretense on base of a suggested birthright.

No one of them, not Karl Friedrich, not Margareta and not Paul-Philipp are a rightful heir to the kingship. No any of them can enforce it based on law. Or are you suggesting the opposite?
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  #1982  
Old 01-16-2018, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
With utmost respect, but this is worthless arguing. I fall over the word rightful ( = having a right to a property, a position, or a status on base of legislation). What is the base for the claimed right?

The Constitution of the Kingdom Romania (Karl Friedrich von Hohenzollern):
this is pretense on base of a Constitution which is no longer enforced.

The "Fundamental Rules" with a proposed succession (Margareta):
this is pretense on base of a private document without jurisdiction

The fact of someone being the most senior male agnate of the former royal family (Paul-Philipp):
this is pretense on base of a suggested birthright.

No one of them, not Karl Friedrich, not Margareta and not Paul-Philipp are a rightful heir to the kingship. No any of them can enforce it based on law. Or are you suggesting the opposite?


It's beyond me why you're making up these alternatives because it's set that the Head of the House of Romania and heir to the former Romanian Throne is Crown Princess Margareta, who's rights to the throne are not disputed by anyone and that of Paul-Phillips' are invalid and illegitimate because he's irrelevant and is not even regarded as a Royal by anyone so once again.. tell me, what is the point of making up your alternatives when we all know what the case is and nobody, not even Romanians dispute it
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  #1983  
Old 01-16-2018, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Romanian media writes that Nicholas spoke on Saturday, in the presence of the priests, about his return permanently to Romania. The sources say that he is going to have a house at Curtea de Arges. He had said that he is impressed by Curtea de Arges and its people. He spoke nicely about the beautiful city, the people there, but said especially that he would be close to his grandfather. But Nicholas must solve things with his work in England and, most likely, in the beginning of spring return permanently to Romania, to his new home in Curtea de Arges.
EXCLUSIV ! Principele Nicolae se mută la Curtea de Argeş*!_! _ Muntenia News
What is clear from his recent comments, is that Nicholas is returning to Romania to set up residence, in what will be an interesting move for the Royal Family and the cause of monarchy in Romania. Not sure his comments should be interpreted as a literal desire to move to Curtea de Arges, or more a wish to spend his time in Romania and among the people his grandfather served. What matters is that he returns, and when he does, I'm quite sure the reconciliation will continue within the RF, and he will strengthen the agenda of the Royal House.
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  #1984  
Old 01-16-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalJewelish View Post
It's beyond me why you're making up these alternatives because it's set that the Head of the House of Romania and heir to the former Romanian Throne is Crown Princess Margareta, who's rights to the throne are not disputed by anyone and that of Paul-Phillips' are invalid and illegitimate because he's irrelevant and is not even regarded as a Royal by anyone so once again.. tell me, what is the point of making up your alternatives when we all know what the case is and nobody, not even Romanians dispute it


RoyalJewish, I ask this respectfully, but are you newer to following the Romanian royals? Because there is grounds for supporting every single one of the claimaints that Duc has listed, including Paul-Philippe.

- Paul-Philippe and his father Carol have fought and won a number of legal cases recognizing Carol as a legitimate son of Carol II and granting Carol (and thus Paul) full succession rights. Thus, in the era where the Romanian Royal Family is not reigning, there as much of a chance of a restoration under Paul as their is under Margarita - especially as Paul has an established heir (his son, Carol), while Margarita really doesnít.

- According to the last Constitution of Romania in which the Succession was addressed, none of the children or grandchildren of Michael I have succession rights, and actually Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern is the heir. This claim (even if the Hohenzollerns do not exercise it) is at this time the closest to being Romanian Law, as itís supported by actual Romanian Law, however defunct that Law is.

- According to Michaelís rules, the successor is his daughter, Margarita, and according to the precedent he set the succession can be changed willy-nilly with absolutely no explanation provided to the public (as seen with Nicholas, Irina, and Irinaís children and grandchildren). Further, this line has no stability for the future, as Margarita has no children, and the asides from Nicholas, no member of the next generation has shown any interest in Romania whatsoever - so why on Earth would the Romanians want a restoration under this line, if this line is clear that it doesnít care about Romania? (Granted, the same could be said about the Hohenzollerns)

- Romanian monarchists - who were forced to accept Margarita during Michaelís life, but are not forced to do so now - may also want to turn to Nicholas himself, as it was Nicholas that they wanted Michael to name as his heir in the first place. Regardless of the circumstances of his removal from Michaelís succession, Nicholas still remains a popular person in Romania and still expresses an interest for Romania

That puts 4 different possible claimaints to the throne now that Michael has passed.
  #1985  
Old 01-16-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
RoyalJewish, I ask this respectfully, but are you newer to following the Romanian royals? Because there is grounds for supporting every single one of the claimaints that Duc has listed, including Paul-Philippe.

- Paul-Philippe and his father Carol have fought and won a number of legal cases recognizing Carol as a legitimate son of Carol II and granting Carol (and thus Paul) full succession rights. Thus, in the era where the Romanian Royal Family is not reigning, there as much of a chance of a restoration under Paul as their is under Margarita - especially as Paul has an established heir (his son, Carol), while Margarita really doesnít.

- According to the last Constitution of Romania in which the Succession was addressed, none of the children or grandchildren of Michael I have succession rights, and actually Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern is the heir. This claim (even if the Hohenzollerns do not exercise it) is at this time the closest to being Romanian Law, as itís supported by actual Romanian Law, however defunct that Law is.

- According to Michaelís rules, the successor is his daughter, Margarita, and according to the precedent he set the succession can be changed willy-nilly with absolutely no explanation provided to the public (as seen with Nicholas, Irina, and Irinaís children and grandchildren). Further, this line has no stability for the future, as Margarita has no children, and the asides from Nicholas, no member of the next generation has shown any interest in Romania whatsoever - so why on Earth would the Romanians want a restoration under this line, if this line is clear that it doesnít care about Romania? (Granted, the same could be said about the Hohenzollerns)

- Romanian monarchists - who were forced to accept Margarita during Michaelís life, but are not forced to do so now - may also want to turn to Nicholas himself, as it was Nicholas that they wanted Michael to name as his heir in the first place. Regardless of the circumstances of his removal from Michaelís succession, Nicholas still remains a popular person in Romania and still expresses an interest for Romania

That puts 4 different possible claimaints to the throne now that Michael has passed.
Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills is certainly the one that has popularity and lives more and more in the country. He is more people's choice even if he has no rights de iure according to the last royal Constitution.
  #1986  
Old 01-16-2018, 12:43 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
RoyalJewish, I ask this respectfully, but are you newer to following the Romanian royals? Because there is grounds for supporting every single one of the claimaints that Duc has listed, including Paul-Philippe.

- Paul-Philippe and his father Carol have fought and won a number of legal cases recognizing Carol as a legitimate son of Carol II and granting Carol (and thus Paul) full succession rights. Thus, in the era where the Romanian Royal Family is not reigning, there as much of a chance of a restoration under Paul as their is under Margarita - especially as Paul has an established heir (his son, Carol), while Margarita really doesnít.

- According to the last Constitution of Romania in which the Succession was addressed, none of the children or grandchildren of Michael I have succession rights, and actually Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern is the heir. This claim (even if the Hohenzollerns do not exercise it) is at this time the closest to being Romanian Law, as itís supported by actual Romanian Law, however defunct that Law is.

- According to Michaelís rules, the successor is his daughter, Margarita, and according to the precedent he set the succession can be changed willy-nilly with absolutely no explanation provided to the public (as seen with Nicholas, Irina, and Irinaís children and grandchildren). Further, this line has no stability for the future, as Margarita has no children, and the asides from Nicholas, no member of the next generation has shown any interest in Romania whatsoever - so why on Earth would the Romanians want a restoration under this line, if this line is clear that it doesnít care about Romania? (Granted, the same could be said about the Hohenzollerns)

- Romanian monarchists - who were forced to accept Margarita during Michaelís life, but are not forced to do so now - may also want to turn to Nicholas himself, as it was Nicholas that they wanted Michael to name as his heir in the first place. Regardless of the circumstances of his removal from Michaelís succession, Nicholas still remains a popular person in Romania and still expresses an interest for Romania

That puts 4 different possible claimaints to the throne now that Michael has passed.

I'm Romanian myself, and whilst I wasn't born in Romania I've visited a number of times and I have family and friends in Romania as well as keeping up with the Romanian news.

Many of the board posters here seem to believe that it's a matter of facts and statements but it no longer is, these are only made up alternatives which have no representation in today's Romanian society, Romanians barely know and neither accept a claimant to the Romanian Throne (Paul-Philippe and Hohenzollern-Sigmarimgen's, the latter of which not a single member of the house is interested in the Romanian Throne)... thought Paul has claimed the throne, it isn't recognised internally and externally and the fact that he was recently embroiled in a fraudulent case of claiming property that wasn't his anyway which he knew of and cost the state millions has forced him to keep low.

As for the inheritance, this had nothing at all to do with the line of succession to the former Romanian Throne as that is already out of question, it was regarding the inheritance of the heirs of Prince Carol (former Carol II) as Paul's family had never had rights to Romanian titles nor the throne. The issue isn't about having children, Paul may have as many children as he desires because the headship of the Romanian Royal Family still doesn't pass onto him as his claim is irrelevant and not legitimate.

Of course Nicholas remains ever so popular and will remain to do so, the Romanians remain optimistic in regards of Nicholas' reconciliation with the Royal Family which is already being mediated as you most probably haven't seen.

There is no claim to the former Romanian Throne as there is an heir already and she is not claimant but heir, a claimant claims what's not already theirs and since King Michael's passing, Crown Princess Margareta has assumed headship of the House of Romania and is first in line to the Former Romanian Throne, naturally.
  #1987  
Old 01-16-2018, 01:08 PM
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At the moment the only solution really popular seems to be Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills and those that treat him wrongly have to admit this. The final decision regarding who will be King will be taken by the Parliament when Monarchy is restored.
At the moment we can't technically speak about the Royal House but only about the King's Family.
  #1988  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
At the moment we can't technically speak about the Royal House but only about the King's Family.
A view you're entitled to espouse over and over, but it does not make it any more correct from repetition. The Royal Family is the Royal Family, irrespective of any proposed or suggested line of succession. Those things are separate, as you well know, but continue to disregard.
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  #1989  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
RoyalJewish, I ask this respectfully, but are you newer to following the Romanian royals? Because there is grounds for supporting every single one of the claimaints that Duc has listed, including Paul-Philippe.

- Paul-Philippe and his father Carol have fought and won a number of legal cases recognizing Carol as a legitimate son of Carol II and granting Carol (and thus Paul) full succession rights. Thus, in the era where the Romanian Royal Family is not reigning, there as much of a chance of a restoration under Paul as their is under Margarita - especially as Paul has an established heir (his son, Carol), while Margarita really doesn’t.

- According to the last Constitution of Romania in which the Succession was addressed, none of the children or grandchildren of Michael I have succession rights, and actually Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern is the heir. This claim (even if the Hohenzollerns do not exercise it) is at this time the closest to being Romanian Law, as it’s supported by actual Romanian Law, however defunct that Law is.

- According to Michael’s rules, the successor is his daughter, Margarita, and according to the precedent he set the succession can be changed willy-nilly with absolutely no explanation provided to the public (as seen with Nicholas, Irina, and Irina’s children and grandchildren). Further, this line has no stability for the future, as Margarita has no children, and the asides from Nicholas, no member of the next generation has shown any interest in Romania whatsoever - so why on Earth would the Romanians want a restoration under this line, if this line is clear that it doesn’t care about Romania? (Granted, the same could be said about the Hohenzollerns)

- Romanian monarchists - who were forced to accept Margarita during Michael’s life, but are not forced to do so now - may also want to turn to Nicholas himself, as it was Nicholas that they wanted Michael to name as his heir in the first place. Regardless of the circumstances of his removal from Michael’s succession, Nicholas still remains a popular person in Romania and still expresses an interest for Romania

That puts 4 different possible claimaints to the throne now that Michael has passed.
When addressing the issue of succession (of which there is a more appropriate thread than this one), one can go over abolished legal stature of 1923 as much as one likes, but the only thing that is really relevant today, is what is more likely and what is not.
The Hohenzollern branch is not an alternative, all the reasons have been listed before and they have excluded themselves from Romania and succession to an intended restored throne, in both practical terms and in minds of Romanians, who have no connections to them any longer.

The only thing that is truly relevant at this point, is how is this issue seen by Romanians at large, politicians and those with influence and power in the Romanian society. For all intents and purposes, they are making it clear that the representatives of the Romanian monarchy, is the Custodian of the Crown and her family. Nicholas continues to belong to that family, whether or not he is formally titled or not, and as his aunt is childless, there really is no way to bypass him when it comes to the 2nd generation after the King, as a continuation of the Royal Family.

For now, it remains to be seen whether Nicholas relocates permanently to Romania, and if that moves the debate forward. My guess is it will.

Everything else is a digression the cause of monarchy can do without.
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  #1990  
Old 01-16-2018, 07:35 PM
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Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills speaks a very good Romanian, he is very close to the people and a lot of monarchists support him. These are certainly facts. His permanent stay in the country could only support the cause of Monarchy.
  #1991  
Old 01-16-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills speaks a very good Romanian, he is very close to the people and a lot of monarchists support him. These are certainly facts. His permanent stay in the country could only support the cause of Monarchy.
Not sure there are any more ways to say the same thing by now.
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  #1992  
Old 01-17-2018, 04:51 AM
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This thread has reached 100 pages.

It is time for a new start. We will split the discussion about Nicholas in two:

1: The thread Nicholas & Alina Maria de Roumanie Medforth Mills, News & Events (Jan 2018 -Current) will feature news and events about Nicholas and his wife.

2: The thread Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth Mills: Discussion, Succession, Paternity Claims WILL NOT feature his public events or information about his wife and possible family. This thread WILL feature the discussion about his succession rights, his former title, paternity claims, relationship with his aunt etc.

Since most posters of the Romanian forum have been posting here for several years we assume that it will be easy for them to keep things separate. Therefore posts that are posted in the wrong thread will be deleted without notice.
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