King Michael severs links with the House of Hohenzollern, May 2011

[Andy T]

What was the position of the German branch of the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen family during the two world wars? Did they support the German Empire against Romania in WWI and what was their attitude to King Michael's decision to join the Allies in 1944?

I know that Wilhelm II had Ferdinand's name erased from the Hohenzollern register but wonder what was the attitude of the Sigmaringen branch?

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Cory

After the first world war the Princes of Hohenzollern were very close to King Ferdinand again and this continue with Carol II and with his brother. King Michael changed his mind only in recent years regarding the House of his forefathers.

Thank you Cory. I know about King Michael's change of mind but my question was what about during the war and during World War II? Did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support the German Empire and the Third Reich, or not?

[Cory]

The dialogue between King Mihai and his relatives the Princes of Hohenzollern continued during the second world war but I can' t know the real feelings of the Catholic Hohenzollerns towards the third Reich.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Cory

The dialogue between King Mihai and his relatives the Princes of Hohenzollern continued during the second world war but I can' t know the real feelings of the Catholic Hohenzollerns towards the third Reich.

With no concrete examples to clarify or support the claim, I'm not sure how to interpret what 'dialogue' means here. Israel and Palestine have 'dialogue' and so do Norway and Sweden.


Did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support the Kaiser's decision to erase King Ferdinand from the Hohenzollern family register?
Were Ferdinand's living (and maybe future) descendants also erased from the register?
Was he/Were they ever officially reinstated? When?
Did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support the German Empire against Romania in World War I?

In World War II, irrespective of their feelings towards the ideology of nazism, did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support King Michael's 1944 decision to declare war against Germany or did they support Germany against Romania?

Thanks to anyone who can provide a clear answer.

[Duc_et_Pair]

The fact that the descendants of King Ferdinand all were (are) Prince or Princess von Hohenzollern seems to indicate that it did not affect them. I also wonder if the Chef of the Brandenburgische Linie (Wilhelm II) could erase a descendant from the Schwäbische Linie (Ferdinand). I believe Wilhelm had no say in that.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Andy T

With no concrete examples to clarify or support the claim, I'm not sure how to interpret what 'dialogue' means here. Israel and Palestine have 'dialogue' and so do Norway and Sweden.


Did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support the Kaiser's decision to erase King Ferdinand from the Hohenzollern family register?
Were Ferdinand's living (and maybe future) descendants also erased from the register?
Was he/Were they ever officially reinstated? When?
Did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support the German Empire against Romania in World War I?

In World War II, irrespective of their feelings towards the ideology of nazism, did the Catholic Hohenzollerns support King Michael's 1944 decision to declare war against Germany or did they support Germany against Romania?

Thanks to anyone who can provide a clear answer.

After the first world war King Ferdinand met again very many times his Hohenzollern relatives and the Hohenzollerns were present at Family events in Romania.

[Andy T]

Originally Posted by Cory

After the first world war King Ferdinand met again very many times his Hohenzollern relatives and the Hohenzollerns were present at Family events in Romania.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Cory, but it doesn't really answer my questions.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Well, King Michael does not consider himself and his offspring a Hohenzollern anymore...

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by Cory

After the first world war King Ferdinand met again very many times his Hohenzollern relatives and the Hohenzollerns were present at Family events in Romania.

I'm puzzled; this posts of yours suggests that there were cordial relationships between King Ferdinand and his Hohenzollern relatives after the War.
So I wonder - just like others have wondered before me - what was the exact meaning of your posts, where you referred to King Ferdinand wishes and decisions taken after World War I that were eventually carried out by King Michael in 2011 with his decision to sever the links with the House of Hohenzollern?

[Cory]

I really doubt the decision of King Michael has anything to do with the past.

I presumed at that time that the decision was linked with what happened during the first workd war. I suppose it is pretty obvious now it was not the case.

Let's hope the relationships between the King's Family and the Hohenzollerns will be close again.

Why did the King want a Hohenzollern title for his son in law and after that he gave up his own membership of the Hohenzollern House?

So it is obvious what really caused the decision of the King.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Cory

I really doubt the decision of King Michael has anything to do with the past.

Which is odd, considering you stated the opposite quite strongly at the time the ties were severed.

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Fürst von Hohenzollern was not amused with the fact that King Michael created his son-in-law Radu Duda with the title Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen. That he creates him Prince of Romania, whatever, was his business but that a Hohenzollern title was bestowed on a total stranger without consulting the Head of the House led to criticism. When the Fürst made no secret about his dédain for what he saw as a vaudeville with titles of his ancient and illustrious House, this led to a break with the Hohenzollerns.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The Fürst von Hohenzollern was not amused with the fact that King Michael created his son-in-law Radu Duda with the title Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen. That he creates him Prince of Romania, whatever, was his business but that a Hohenzollern title was bestowed on a total stranger without consulting the Head of the House led to criticism. When the Fürst made no secret about his dédain for what he saw as a vaudeville with titles of his ancient and illustrious House, this led to a break with the Hohenzollerns.

Actually, it was the late Fürst von Hohenzollern who issued the Urkunde granting the then Mr. Radu Duda the right to use the surname "Prinz von Hohenzollern-Veringen." This was done after a request of King Michael of Romania to his cousin. The current Fürst von Hohenzollern is the one who has never been extremely keen, to put it mildly, on Mr. Duda.

This is the text of the document:

Urkunde
Mit Wirkung vom 1. Januar 1999 genehmige ich, dass der Prinzgemahl
Radu Duda

den Namen

PRINZ VON HOHENZOLLERN-VERINGEN führen darf.

Diese Namensführung erfolgt nur "ad personam."

Sigmaringen, de 1 Januar 1999

Friedrich Wihelm Fürst von Hohenzollern

Further discussion of this issue can be found in the court documents of the libel case that Prince Radu won in London against Majesty magazine editor Marco Houston.

http://www.carter-ruck.com/images/up...u_Judgment.pdf

[Cory]

Prince Karl did not accept the Hohenzollerns surname would be linked in any way to Princess Margareta's husband.

[Benjamin]

The then-Prince Karl may not have accepted it, but his father, the late Fürst Friedrich Wilhelm, did.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

Prince Karl did not accept the Hohenzollerns surname would be linked in any way to Princess Margareta's husband.

It is irrelevant how the-then Prince Karl viewed the decision, it was his fathers to make, and it was granted. That's the end of that debate, and in no way does it reflect on H.R.H Prince Radu and his position.

[Cory]

So the Hohenzollerns were good to grant a title but immediately afterwards the King's Family did not want to have connections with them?

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Cory

So the Hohenzollerns were good to grant a title but immediately afterwards the King's Family did not want to have connections with them?

If you read the Urkunde, you discover that a title was not granted; a name was. However, the obvious intention was that the late Fürst taking such an action would allow the husband of Crown Princess Margarita to have some sort of station closer to his wife's. Despite the technicalities, many clearly became to refer to Radu as HSH Prince of Hohenzollern-Veringen, including the Romanian government, for whom he served as an special representative for a number of years.

Further, the "break" with the Hohenzollerns did not take place until 2011, while the Urkunde was issued in 1999.

[Cory]

The King's Family should have been grateful to the Hohenzollerns. .

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Cory

The King's Family should have been grateful to the Hohenzollerns. .

Where is the evidence that they're not? You're drawing conclusions there is no basis for, to fit your arguments against the Romanian Royal Family, and sever its links with their German heritage. Why was it alright in 1918, but not in 2011, to declare a Royal House to be loyal to and subject exclusively of, the land that adopted it centuries ago?

Prior to being elected as King of Sweden, Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte renounced his 'Prince of Ponte-Corvo' title. After World War I, the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha lost a lot of members when the British part of it chose to rename as the house of Windsor.

There is genuinely nothing new in a Royal Family wanting to declare themselves uniquely for their nation, and not tied to some other noble house. That is not a mark of disrespect, but of respect for its own nation, future and the natural progress that often times happens in a royal house, whether it be reigning or not. Any future monarchs of Romania and their family members need not have a German title, alongside their Romanian one, to validate their raison d'être, or to honour their history. They honour their history by continuing to do the good work former monarchs did, for the good of the country, in line with the times they live in.