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  #721  
Old 05-07-2017, 02:25 PM
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Methinks if the court started to comment on tabloids e.g. Stoppa Presserna news then
a) it would be too time-consuming,
b) would give this trash site unnecessary importance and
c) it would be a waste of time.
Tabloids live off from publishing trash and people who dislike e.g. M & C may enjoy those tabloid stories about "marriage problems", "financial troubles", "alcohol overuse", etc, etc. Tabloids often publish all kind of stories but there's no clear source nor reliability if you think more closely about the backround but still people believe all kind of crap for whatever reason. One of recent flashes was that Crown Princess Victoria is overworking and underpaying her stylist. Does she? Really?? If there's a problem, why go to some tabloid and not talk out matters between the parties??
This is not serious journalism! But its not entertainment also because they hurt real persons. I wonder if those tabloids ever think how their "stories" affect those people they write about? It must be heavy strain on people and its a wonder that the relationship stays together after being constantly thrown under the bus... Just because you are a public figure should not mean that you are an open target. Or should it?? If there are problems (either financial, marriage, health, etc) it should be for them to solve and not for others to gloat over.
Chris has good education, living & livelyhood, no scandals [prior to marriage that I've heard of]. I think the court/family did not expect that M&C would get under so strong scrutiny and would need the PR handlers because Chris did not have the same luggage that Sofia had. But the damage is done and the stories are there to stay. I certainly do not envy the princess couple who have to live with this baggage...but I hope they come out of it stronger and wiser.
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  #722  
Old 05-07-2017, 02:35 PM
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In Expressen today
The unknown women around Chris O'Neill (Madeleine, Chris's mother and sisters and his former girlfriend)
Oknda kvinnorna runt Chris O'Neill _ Nje
Translation
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  #723  
Old 05-07-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
My point was that the court did step in either by commenting or hiring PR for other family members. But I don't want to blame it on the court.

What I do think is that Chris & Madeleine are in need of serious PR handlers, not only because of Chris' tax problem but also of his rude or drunk image (true or not). Their PR has been badly handled from the start and still is being handled badly or they are immune to professional advice.
I don't think that a PR handler can be of much help if the client repeats the behavior, regarding Chris he had the same issue in previous years with being late in paying taxes. I doubt if he is going to stop having drinks when he is out in restaurants and pubs. For this reason (IMO) Chris just has to deal with the media running less than positive articles about him, I think that it would be worse if a PR handler tried to build a certain image of Chris only to have him do things that don't reflect that image.
  #724  
Old 05-08-2017, 01:17 AM
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He already had a bad start, with the ridiculous video clip, refusing to give live interviews on the occasion at the engagement, came across as arrogant.
  #725  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:38 AM
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Svensk Damtidning writes that they know why Madeleine doesn't attend at the 80th birthday celebrations in Norway. The family is in Florida now.
- Chris has an important business there known for a long time and therefore Madeleine and the children followed him to the US, said Margaret Thorgren to Svensk Damtidning.
According to SD the family returns to London in mid-May and in connection to the National Day they will be seen in Sweden.
Madeleine i Florida _ Svensk Damtidning

Expressen writes that the family is in Palm Beach and the children have been seen playing on the beach. Parts of Chris O'Neill's family and relatives are also on the trip, including his sisters siblings and their children.
Prinsessan Madeleines resa till USA med Leonore och Nicolas _ Kungligt _ Expressen

Expressen writes that Chris paid his tax debts on 28th April, two days after Expressen wrote about them.
Chris O'Neill har betalat sin skatteskuld _ Kungligt _ Expressen
  #726  
Old 05-14-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
He already had a bad start, with the ridiculous video clip, refusing to give live interviews on the occasion at the engagement, came across as arrogant.
Its attitudes like this that make me wish Mads would give up her HRH and live happily as Mrs O Neil. The arrogance and entitlement people direct towards them is infuriating.
  #727  
Old 05-14-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Its attitudes like this that make me wish Mads would give up her HRH and live happily as Mrs O Neil. The arrogance and entitlement people direct towards them is infuriating.
Is it probable that it isn't wholly Madeleine's decision? Might it be she is bowing to the wishes of her father?
Or Victoria?
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  #728  
Old 05-14-2017, 04:23 PM
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I have always thought Madeleine was nudged to keep the titles and royal status for herself and her children​ by the King. Because once she relinquish es, there will be pressure on CP's kids to be commoners (like Norway), and that's the last thing the king would want.
Just my little wild guess..
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  #729  
Old 05-14-2017, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I have always thought Madeleine was nudged to keep the titles and royal status for herself and her children​ by the King. Because once she relinquish es, there will be pressure on CP's kids to be commoners (like Norway), and that's the last thing the king would want.
Just my little wild guess..
I think that we need to keep in mind what the situation looked like when Madeleine got married and Leonore was born. Yes, Victoria was married and Estelle was born, but she was the only grandchild in sight. Carl Philip wasn't married, and no one knew if he would get married and/or have children, or if Victoria would have another child. Leonore was needed in the line of succession, and I'm convinced that it was the king who wanted all his grandkids to be HRH's and stay in line to the throne. He remembers very well what the situation could look like if the line to the throne is very, very short.

The situation is different today. Estelle has a younger brother. Carl Philip has a son, and another child on the way. There are soon four children in line to the throne. Even if Leonore and Nicholas were to be removed from the succession, it's completely secure. In addition, we can also se that Carl Philip and Sofia are stepping up to prepare to help Victoria and Daniel with the royal duties more and more as time goes by.

I think that Madeleine will stay in London with the kids and Chris, which means that the kids will be taken out of the succession (but still be prince/princess).
  #730  
Old 05-14-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I have always thought Madeleine was nudged to keep the titles and royal status for herself and her children​ by the King. Because once she relinquish es, there will be pressure on CP's kids to be commoners (like Norway), and that's the last thing the king would want.
Just my little wild guess..
I always thought the same thing. When Leonore was born, it was just Estelle in the line of succession, and at that time, at least many here at The Royal Forums thought that it was looking as if Estelle may be an only child. Carl Philip wasn't even engaged yet, I don't think. The line of succession was much more tenuous at that point. However, within the three or four years since Leonore's birth, CP Victoria has had another child, Carl Philip married and had one son with another child on the way. The line of succession is well-secure now.
  #731  
Old 05-14-2017, 06:20 PM
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People get mad when Madeleine and Chris don’t give interviews. People get mad when they do give interviews. I think Chris is following Madeleine so if she’s inconsistent or picky about interviews then obviously he’ll be as well. I'm somewhat more critical of Madeleine than Chris. She is a representative of Sweden. I don't know if working at Childhood and attending the occasional event with kids or family are enough.

On the IRS and unpaid property taxes…yes, an issue and bad optics. The IRS can be wrong at times; my Dad was audited twice but both times it was the IRS’ mistake. Unfortunately for Chris, it was his error. No idea about the property taxes, perhaps he was disputing the amount and that’s why it took time to resolve and apparently needed a trip to Florida.

The King (or eventually Victoria) should figure out a policy for styles and titles. How many HRH prince/ss of Sweden does the country need? Should titles be connected to royal duties or/and line-of-succession? Right now they’re not. Will Princes Alexander, Oscar, and Nicolas pass on titles to their male-line descendants forever or is there a limit?
  #732  
Old 05-15-2017, 03:47 AM
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I fail to understand why people so much want princess Madeleine to give up her HRH. Prince Carl Philip also married a commoner [a woman who does not even have a good education and career like Chris] but there are no problems that Sofia was given HRH and Carl Philip maintained his HRH. And why he shouldn't?
Princess Madeleine is the daughter of the monarch and she was given this title upon her birth. She has not done anything criminal, illegal, AFIK she hasn't improperly used her title. Yet, she should give up her title. Because "she's not working enough", "she's not seen enough"? Really? Are the titles connected to royal duties and there's some kind of count how many duties one must attend in order to qualify for the title? I wish this nonsens that Madeleine should give up her title would stop. Or are there good/clear laws/reasons why she should loose her title? Please feel free to tell if you know! There are lots of HRHs in Europe who has the title, who work much less than Madeleine but there's no discussion about them loosing the title. Yet, Madeleine is painted to be the black sheep who shouldn't keep her title.

Yes, it would be great if Madde worked more but I think its up to the King. I also think once the children are older, we'll see more of Madeleine (I feel a little sorry for her because people who dislike her get mad when she attends e.g Nobel and blame her for attending "fancy" events, yet, they also get mad should she miss the event....talk about being at odds).

Right now there are 7 adult royals in Swedish royal family [plus princess Christina who prior to her illness often attends different events). Its a large number and no wonder that there's not enough appliance for all of them.
However, its been said before that in order Carl Philip & Sofia could work more, the king and queen must work less but they still go strong despite their age. Victoria & Daniel have also started to take more duties after some parental leave, so this means less work for Carl Philip & Sofia and even less for Madeleine who's the youngest of adults. Or the government should give a bigger apanage to the court, so ALL members could keep up sturdy work load. But then there's a question if the taxpayers are ready to pay more money for keeping up more full-time royals but that's totally another discussion.
  #733  
Old 05-15-2017, 04:45 AM
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Some thought that Madeleine should give up her HRH in order to become a private citizen with her private citizen husband given she only works very little to nothing anyway (a la Martha Louise). I don't agree though.

But I do agree with those who think that the children of non-heirs should not be HRHs given even the parents work little to nothing (CP, Madeleine), the kids are even further away from royal life/duty hence don't need to be titled that high up.

Spares or not, in emergency there is always a way to handle it but having lots of HRH grandchildren who have little to do with the institution can become very unpopular with public opinion once they are grown and not cute anymore but living the easy celebrity life because of such a title.
Denmark already realized the problem, Joachims kids are only HH, more than enough.
  #734  
Old 05-15-2017, 05:50 AM
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There are, IMO, two different things that are discussed here.

One is if Madeleine should give up her HRH. This title doesn't require a certain amount of work, so that's really not relevant here. However, Madeleine herself might be interested in making the same move as Mrtha Louise, and give up her title because she simply isn't interested in royal duties anymore and wants to be Mrs O'Neil. If that's what she herself wants, then she should. But I don't think that's the case.

Secondly: should we expect her to be more visible in Sweden, doing royal stuff? Not necessarily. The problem to me, and many other of my fellow countrymen, isn't that we don't se her every day - it's that we have no idea when we're supposed to see her. It's the matter of consistency, which has been brought up her many times before. That is the real issue, not if she cuts ribbons once a month or come home for the national day celebrations or Nobel.

Third: should her kids be HRH? This is, I think, not her choice - it's the king who decides. When Leonore and Nicholas were born, they were needed in the line of succession, and I don't really think that Madeleine herself was the one who decided that they should be HRH's. The situation is different now, and I think that if Madeleine wants to remove the kids from the succession (along with their HRH's), that shouldn't be a problem. There are soon six grandkids in line to the throne, and hers will be the two last ones.
  #735  
Old 05-15-2017, 07:42 AM
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@ Mari Anne, I do not want her to Give up her HRH because she did anything wrong. I want her to give it up so she and Chris can live happily without all this unwarranted scrutiny and negativity towards them. Neither of them has done anything wrong but they are Constantly abused for anything and everything, or so it seems following the media alerts in this thread. I would rather Madeleine give up her title rather than give up her husband.
  #736  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Some thought that Madeleine should give up her HRH in order to become a private citizen with her private citizen husband given she only works very little to nothing anyway (a la Martha Louise). I don't agree though.

But I do agree with those who think that the children of non-heirs should not be HRHs given even the parents work little to nothing (CP, Madeleine), the kids are even further away from royal life/duty hence don't need to be titled that high up.

Spares or not, in emergency there is always a way to handle it but having lots of HRH grandchildren who have little to do with the institution can become very unpopular with public opinion once they are grown and not cute anymore but living the easy celebrity life because of such a title.
Denmark already realized the problem, Joachims kids are only HH, more than enough.
i share the thoughts DOM. this generation of children (estelle's generation) is the first one upon which the nephews/nieces of the future king/queen (victoria) receive HRH treatment. carl gustav's nephews and nieces all received the title of whoever his sisters married - mr/mrs, baron/baroness or HSH respectively. it seems to me that CG is more generous than previous generations with respect to titles.
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  #737  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:43 AM
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The lack of Swedish royal titles of King's nieces and nephews is due to the fact their mothers, the Haga Princesses, themselves did not have succession rights (and lost their HRH and 'of Sweden' designations when they married). It would have been very strange to give their children royal titles when the sisters themselves did not have them fully.

The current generation is different, as both Victoria and Madeleine have and retain succession rights and were not stripped of their titles when they married.
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  #738  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Some thought that Madeleine should give up her HRH in order to become a private citizen with her private citizen husband given she only works very little to nothing anyway (a la Martha Louise). I don't agree though.

But I do agree with those who think that the children of non-heirs should not be HRHs given even the parents work little to nothing (CP, Madeleine), the kids are even further away from royal life/duty hence don't need to be titled that high up.

Spares or not, in emergency there is always a way to handle it but having lots of HRH grandchildren who have little to do with the institution can become very unpopular with public opinion once they are grown and not cute anymore but living the easy celebrity life because of such a title.
Denmark already realized the problem, Joachims kids are only HH, more than enough.
Although I also support limiting the number of HRHs by law, it must be said that, historically, under the Bernadotte dynasty, all male-line descendants of King Carl XIV Johan who were not excluded from the line of succession under the old (1810) Act of Sucession were in principle HRHs. Surprisingly, the number of HRHs didn't explode exponentially though for several reasons:

  1. First, women could not pass down the HRH status, so descendants of princesses of Sweden were not princes or princesses themselves.
  2. Several male princes lost their HRH status for violating the "equal marriage clause" in the Act of Succession of 1810; their respective descendants were automatically also deprived of royal titles.
  3. A few princes, especially in the past, did not survive until adult age or passed away without issue.
  #739  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
But I do agree with those who think that the children of non-heirs should not be HRHs given even the parents work little to nothing (CP, Madeleine), the kids are even further away from royal life/duty hence don't need to be titled that high up.

Spares or not, in emergency there is always a way to handle it but having lots of HRH grandchildren who have little to do with the institution can become very unpopular with public opinion once they are grown and not cute anymore but living the easy celebrity life because of such a title.
Denmark already realized the problem, Joachims kids are only HH, more than enough.
Prince Joachim's children are HH by Danish tradition; the queen's cousin Princess Elisabeth of Denmark is HH as well. But I think the public opinion in Europe has ceased to make a distinction between royal princes(ses) who are styled HH or HSH and those who are styled HRH.
  #740  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:30 PM
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@ Mari Anne, I do not want her to Give up her HRH because she did anything wrong. I want her to give it up so she and Chris can live happily without all this unwarranted scrutiny and negativity towards them. Neither of them has done anything wrong but they are Constantly abused for anything and everything, or so it seems following the media alerts in this thread. I would rather Madeleine give up her title rather than give up her husband.
Giving up her HRH and/or her title would be Madeleine's choice but she cannot do that for her children. It is theirs to keep or give away when the reach adulthood.

However, I don't think that giving up her HRH or title will stop or even slow down the media anyway. She is still the daughter of a King and I can just see it now, "Hi, I'm Madeleine". "Pleased to meet you . . . but aren't you that king's daughter, you know, a princess?" "Well no, I decided to give that up because my husband and I want to live privately." "Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical, after all, you still a royal and your father's a king and you live in a palace when you're home, you've got cars and money and "we" can't afford to live like you do. Cue further rants on hypocrisy.
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