Titled Danish Gentry and Nobles

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Lord Sosnowitz

Hello,

The Danish monarch can confer any title to non-member of the Royal Family?

KR,

LS

Not sure, but I don't think so.

Would be cool, though.

[dbarn67]

I have a general question about Denmark. Is there a titled nobility/aristocracy in Denmark? In England, Belgium, Germany and in Spain, there are Sir/Ladies to Dukes (Dons in Spain) but I don't know whether such thing exists in other monarchies.

Not sure this the proper thread for this question mods.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by dbarn67

I have a general question about Denmark. Is there a titled nobility/aristocracy in Denmark? In England, Belgium, Germany and in Spain, there are Sir/Ladies to Dukes (Dons in Spain) but I don't know whether such thing exists in other monarchies.

Not sure this the proper thread for this question mods.

There is a titled aristocracy here in DK, but they rarely use their titles as there are no privileges connected to being a noble.
The Monarch is the only one who can ennoble anyone but that is extremely rare. Alexandra is an example and that title is personal and cannot be inherited.

The aristocratic titles in use here in DK are: baron and count (greve). There are no earls or dukes, nor prinzen or fürsten as in the German sense.

The title of say Knight of the Order of Dannebrog, is just that, an honorary title. There is nothing equivalent to Sir, OBE or MBE in connection with your name here.
It may be mentioned in your biography, obituary or in the magazines that you have a particular order or because you wear your Knights Cross or whatever at special occasions. Apart from that there is nothing to distinguish you from everybody else.

[dbarn67]

Originally Posted by Muhler

There is a titled aristocracy here in DK, but they rarely use their titles as there are no privileges connected to being a noble.
The Monarch is the only one who can ennoble anyone but that is extremely rare. Alexandra is an example and that title is personal and cannot be inherited.

The aristocratic titles in use here in DK are: baron and count (greve). There are no earls or dukes, nor prinzen or fürsten as in the German sense.

The title of say Knight of the Order of Dannebrog, is just that, an honorary title. There is nothing equivalent to Sir, OBE or MBE in connection with your name here.
It may be mentioned in your biography, obituary or in the magazines that you have a particular order or because you wear your Knights Cross or whatever at special occasions. Apart from that there is nothing to distinguish you from everybody else.

Thanks Muhler, I knew you'd have the answer

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by JR76

A Danish komtesse (daughter of a count) looses her title upon marriage and after that she carries the title of her husband. If he doesn't have one then neither does she. If a female member of the nobility marries a commoner she looses her status as a noble and won't get it back after a divorce.
The three Rosenborg sisters got the Queen's permission to keep their names when they married, but not their titles. In spite of this they still go by their birth title in the tabloids (where some of them are frequently mentioned) and other media.

So, what about Alexandra; did she loose her title as princess of S-W-B when she married count Jefferson or did she loose it now she married the Danish count Michael? Or is she considered royal and do these rules (female member of nobility looses her own titles/status and confirms to her husband's) only apply to nobles? Or does it not apply because it's not a Danish title even though she is a Danish citizen (I assume).

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Somebody

So, what about Alexandra; did she loose her title as princess of S-W-B when she married count Jefferson or did she loose it now she married the Danish count Michael? Or is she considered royal and do these rules (female member of nobility looses her own titles/status and confirms to her husband's) only apply to nobles? Or this it not apply because it's not a Danish title even though she is a Danish citizen (I assume).

Her title is German , so I am not sure Danish rules are relevant in this case.

It should be noted also that Alexandra is not a princess of Denmark as she ( controversially) is not in the line of succession to the Danish throne.

[Mbruno]

The wife of a Danish count ( “greve”) is called “ grevinde” whereas the unmarried daughter of a Danish count is called “ komtesse”.

What are the Danish words for the wife and the unmarried daughter of a Danish baron ( “ friherre”) ?

Thanks.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

The wife of a Danish count ( “greve”) is called “ grevinde” whereas the unmarried daughter of a Danish count is called “ komtesse”.

What are the Danish words for the wife and the unmarried daughter of a Danish baron ( “ friherre”) ?

Thanks.

Baronesse or friherreinde. It also applies to both a wife and daughters.
To distinguish you use Mrs. Baronesse or Miss Baronesse.

- That is in accordance to a tradition that existed basically into my childhood, where a wife was often known and addressed by the title of her husband.
Example: a director (manager) would in Danish often be addressed as Fru Direktør Olsen. = Mrs. Director Olsen. If she was a director in her own right, she would be Direktørinde, using the now archaic female addition "inde" (or "esse") = directress.
Or a the wife of a master carpenter: Fru tømrermester Olsen = Mrs. Master Carpenter Olsen.
It even went down to workman (unskilled): Fru Arbejdsmand Olsen = Mrs. Workman Olsen.
It wasn't just snobbery but had a practical application as well. As late as around 1990, wives were filed under their husband's name and social security number in the municipalities. Her papers were even placed in her husband's folder.

Try check how the rules are in Germany, the Danish titles regarding counts and barons follow the German tradition.

[Blog Real]

Count Ditlev Helge Knuth-Winterfeldt has died aged 79. He was a lifelong friend of Queen Margrethe II.

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kendte/d...-er-gaaet-bort

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

So, what about Alexandra; did she loose her title as princess of S-W-B when she married count Jefferson or did she loose it now she married the Danish count Michael? Or is she considered royal and do these rules (female member of nobility looses her own titles/status and confirms to her husband's) only apply to nobles? Or does it not apply because it's not a Danish title even though she is a Danish citizen (I assume).

Princess Benedikte's daughters have always been styled Princess Alexandra and Princess Nathalie zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and have never used the names of their husbands even while married. See for example Alexandra's separation announcement:

https://www.kongehuset.dk/presse/med...semeddelelse-0

Originally Posted by Muhler

Try check how the rules are in Germany, the Danish titles regarding counts and barons follow the German tradition.

Since 1919, when the nobility of Germany was legally abolished and its titles were converted into legal surnames, surnames including noble titles have followed the same rules as other surnames. Private nobility associations have their own rules as to who "should" use noble titles, but as private clubs they do not have the power to enforce them.

Originally Posted by Muhler

- That is in accordance to a tradition that existed basically into my childhood, where a wife was often known and addressed by the title of her husband.
Example: a director (manager) would in Danish often be addressed as Fru Direktør Olsen. = Mrs. Director Olsen. If she was a director in her own right, she would be Direktørinde, using the now archaic female addition "inde" (or "esse") = directress.
Or a the wife of a master carpenter: Fru tømrermester Olsen = Mrs. Master Carpenter Olsen.
It even went down to workman (unskilled): Fru Arbejdsmand Olsen = Mrs. Workman Olsen.
It wasn't just snobbery but had a practical application as well. As late as around 1990, wives were filed under their husband's name and social security number in the municipalities. Her papers were even placed in her husband's folder.

Thank you for the explanation. This practice was known among the commoner classes of many countries, as I understand it - which is why arguments that a wife being addressed by the title of her royal or noble husband is a royal or noble tradition which should not be modernized according to changes in general society miss the mark.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Lord Sosnowitz

Hello,

The Danish monarch can confer any title to non-member of the Royal Family?

KR,

LS

Here are the material sections of the Constitution along with explanations written by the government:

Section 83
All legislative privileges attaching to nobility, title, and rank shall be abolished.

Section 83
This Section deals with the advantages some people were born with in bygone days. At the time, there was more class division in society than is the case today. People were born into a particular social class or with a specific title or rank. And this conferred many advantages, what were known as privileges.

It was a great advantage to be an aristocrat. That is, to have the title of count or baron. The aristocracy had privileges that no ordinary citizens had. They paid less tax, for instance. These privileges were abolished by the first Constitutional Act in 1849. But even then, the special rights of the aristocracy were already partly a thing of the past. Very few privileges remained. The constitutional provision abolished special rights once and for all. But it did not abolish the right to ennoble certain people. However, this is of no great significance today.


Section 84
No fiefs, estates tail in land, or estates tail in personal property or family estates shall be created in future.

Section 84
In bygone days, certain families could retain large properties undivided. This could be done, for example, by the eldest son inheriting the property – perhaps an entire estate – without having to share it with his siblings. The Constitutional Act does away with this principle. The King used to be able to reward his people by giving them estates and land. They were called fiefs. Many fiefs were created because they conferred certain financial advantages on the families who controlled them. They could earn large annual incomes from the management of the fiefs and did not have to pay much tax. The many fiefs also meant that extensive areas of Danish estates were bound to specific counties or baronies. They only benefited certain families. In the same way, entailed estates were also linked to particular families. The Danish word for entailed estate, “fideikommis”, comes from Latin and means entrusted estate or money. Estates and property were inherited within the family undivided and could not be sold. It has been illegal to create new estates of this type since 1849. And all of the remaining fiefs and entailed estates were abolished in 1919. The owners received a certain amount of compensation from the State in return for surrendering some of their assets.

https://www.ft.dk/-/media/sites/ft/p...18_uk_web.ashx