The Prince of Wales & The Duchess of Cornwall visit Denmark: March 24-27, 2012

[Archduchess Zelia]

It's terribly exhausting that currently every discussion about Mary and Frederik (or just the DRF in general) is turned into a criticism of them.

As stated before, it does not seem like C&C had a problem with John Donaldson attending the service, so why make a fuss about it?

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Viv

FasterB, the liturgical years are not identical in the various denominations! The service list of St. Albans does not mention which day it is in the "church year", however I checked the day at the service page of an English Cathedral: today is the 5th Sunday of Lent, so that explains the colour purple!
Monday the 26th is the annunciation of the Lord.
Maybe we should continue the dicussion on a PM?? !

viv

I have PM´ed you

Originally Posted by cepe

I think that in the Anglican Church the colour would still be purple

Ok, thank you for answer

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by EIIR

While in Norway and Sweden Charles and Camilla were accompanied at all times by senior members of their royal families, most often the King and Queen themselves. Denmark, for whatever reason, have chosen not to go down that route. So the Queen needn't feel bad about not sending senior royals to Danish royal events.

Seems it'll suit both houses quite well and supports the stories that we've heard that the BRF are closer to the Swedes and, in particular, the Norwegians than the Danes.

Do be sure to inform Charles of that won't you, and indeed the Queen. I mean, having had the Danish Queen come to stay at Sandringham (the guest of Charles) and Balmoral I believe (as the quest of the Queen) certainly supports that "theory". And that Margrethe has been known to attend tea at Buckingham Palace on occasion whilst in London for private leisure, or that it's no secret that the Duke of Edinburgh is known to get on very well indeed with the Danish monarch for that matter all but supports the above "theory" that the British royal family aren't all that close to their Danish counterparts.

No doubt the Queen is demanding a regular update as to which member of the DRF is accompanying her darling son and his wife, and is using this visit as a means of clearing her guilt ridden conscience. But of course, now why didn't I think of that!

There's no denying they are close to the Norwegian royal family. They are but second cousins.

As for the Swede's, well, I'm fairly certain I witnessed Sophie and Edward represent the Queen at Victoria's wedding so perhaps Elizabeth isn't so friendly with them either...

Oh, the possibilities are endless

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Seriously? You're bringing the blood in Mary's veins and the fact she lived in Australia for numerous years as reason for her attending an event? Mary is The Crown Princess of Denmark, if you hadn't noticed, I bet this woman thinks of herself as an Aussie/Dane and her ties to England are long gone. Putting aside the fact that this woman has 4 kids under the age of 8 to look after at home, it was a sunday and I don't think I've ever seen Mary attend church other than at Christmas.

I wonder if so much fuss would have been caused if John Donaldson hadn't attended, then it would have just been C&C attending a church service on their own. They could have even done it in private.

That's possibly one of the rudest things I've read on this forum, and as you have pointed out several times, we have some nasty posters around. This highlights more than anything your own view of European royal families rather than The Queens, of which I doubt you know anything about.

Posters here are using the fact that Mary's father is Scottish as the obvious reason why he attended today, and that the DRF didn't send a representative. I merely pointed out that, given all the royal families like to go on about their blood links with one another, Mary is actually more British than any of them. So it would've been very appropriate for her to attend a service honouring her former monarch.

Oh, and don't start into the 'she has children to look after' excuse. How many nannies do Mary and Fred employ? An hour is all it would have taken. And I have never called Mary an attention seeker, or accused her of looking for the cameras or turning her back on Camilla.

I don't see how it's rude to point out, given that lots of people here complain about the fact the BRF rarely attend any of the European royal events and 'only' send Edward and Sophie as representatives, the fact that the DRF could only muster the father in law of the Crown Prince to attend a service dedicated to the Queen's 60 year reign in their own home city, the Queen seems to have it about right.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by EIIR

So it would've been very appropriate for her to attend a service honouring her former monarch.

She's Australian not British, born in Tasmania and raised there. John Donaldson is Scottish, so has greater ties to the crown and country than Mary.

Originally Posted by EIIR

Oh, and don't start into the 'she has children to look after' excuse. How many nannies do Mary and Fred employ?

2 I believe. However Mary and Frederik are still there parents, and I believe spending time with them on one day in the weekend would be more than appropriate. You might want to check over Muhler's post about how this engagement worked and having a Danish Royal attend would have rather "upstaged" the occasion.

Originally Posted by EIIR

the DRF could only muster the father in law of the Crown Prince to attend a service dedicated to the Queen's 60 year reign in their own home city, the Queen seems to have it about right.

So was he there officially to represent the Danish Royal Family was he? Where did you read that? I thought he was invited as John Donaldson.

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Do be sure to inform Charles of that won't you, and indeed the Queen. I mean, having had the Danish Queen come to stay at Sandringham (the guest of Charles) and Balmoral I believe (as the quest of the Queen) certainly supports that "theory". And that Margrethe has been known to attend tea at Buckingham Palace on occasion whilst in London for private leisure, or that it's no secret that the Duke of Edinburgh is known to get on very well indeed with the Danish monarch for that matter all but supports the above "theory" that the British royal family aren't all that close to their Danish counterparts.

No doubt the Queen is demanding a regular update as to which member of the DRF is accompanying her darling son and his wife, and is using this visit as a means of clearing her guilt ridden conscience. But of course, now why didn't I think of that!

There's no denying they are close to the Norwegian royal family. They are but second cousins.

As for the Swede's, well, I'm fairly certain I witnessed Sophie and Edward represent the Queen at Victoria's wedding so perhaps Elizabeth isn't so friendly with them either...

Oh, the possibilities are endless

Hey, all I can judge these things on is what I see with my own eyes. The Queen has had all sorts of people to stay and to tea, doesn't necessarily mean that they're particularly close. The Norwegians and Swedes have been exceedingly generous and gracious to Charles and Camilla.

One thing's for sure - the Queen keeps a very close eye on the overseas visits of her family members, as William and Harry have confirmed. Nothing will escape her notice.

All I'm saying is all the criticism that the Queen gets on these forums for not being friendly enough with the continental royals, not attending weddings and funerals, only sending some of her less senior family members as representatives is misplaced.

[Artemisia]

Oh, my. This thread is quickly turning into British Royal Family vs. Danish Royal Family.
I expect punches any second now.
- Everyone seemed to be happy during the event.
- Charles and Camilla obviously didn't take offence at non-presence of royal family members.
- Every detail has been organised beforehand, way before Charles and Camilla even started the tour.
- Danish people (judging by the reaction of Danish posters here) didn't think the Donaldsons' presence was inappropriate.
- Donaldsons were most probably there as subjects of Queen Elizabeth, not representatives of Queen Margrethe.
- Relationships between British Royal appear to be quite close, both on formal and informal levels.
- Prince Edward and Sophie attend nearly all major events in foreign monarchies; the Kents and Gloucesters are for minor ones.

Can we please move on?

[miche]

Didn't Mary have British citizenship before her marriage to Frederik?

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by EIIR

All I'm saying is all the criticism that the Queen gets on these forums for not being friendly enough with the continental royals, not attending weddings and funerals, only sending some of her less senior family members as representatives is misplaced.

In relation to a wedding, state funeral, or similar state events the criticism the BRF gets in that area is not misplaced. For the wedding of a King, the monarchs from the invited countries should attend unless they have good reason not. Whoever the event is for the member of equal rank from the invited countries should attend. The BRF in this way has always come off with the notion that they think they're better than everyone else, they only send Edward and Sophie, It believe Princess Michael went to the Greek wedding last summer as well. I might honestly be that they just don't want to attend, which is fair enough.

When it comes to birthdays, it's a different matter it is up to the individual who they invite as it's their birthday. We saw at this years 40th Jubilee it was mainly a scandanavian family event, whereas in contrast the Diamond Jubilee is much more high profiled. More years, more guests perhaps.

This event today, was to celebrate the diamond jubilee. As Muhler writes;

This was an event for subjects of QEII who happen to be living in Denmark (perhaps southern Sweden as well).
If a member of the DRF attended this ceremony, C&C would be demoted to guests. - At a ceremony celebrating the British Monarch.

[Artemisia]

Originally Posted by miche

Didn't Mary have British citizenship before her marriage to Frederik?

Before her marriage, Mary held dual Australian and British citizenship.

[Viv]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Now with this recent visit to Sweden we find that there are in fact private visits with the Swedes/British royals that no one knew about. We know that QMII makes regular private visits to London so it is not unreasonable to assume there are also private visits to the BRF we know nothing about.

One of the lessons I take from the development of this tour is that at the end of the day we - the royalty watchers - know practically nothing about the RFs we would like to believe we're 'experts' on - well, sort of experts!
Everyone is welcome to check the beginning of this thread: I refused to believe that this visit to Denmark (as I read about it to begin with) would take place!
Next noone would believe that the diamond jubilee was a pretext for the C&C tour.
As it turned out, it was!
For the record I copypaste the following information from the website of the British Embassy in Denmark:

quote
The tour marks the begining of Their Royal Highnesses' official overseas celebrations of The Queen's Diamond Jubilee and started in Norway, is now in Sweden and then goes on to Denmark where the couple arrive on Saturday.
"These visits, to other Monarchies linked by common Royal descent, will in each case have Their Royal Highnesses staying as guests of the Sovereign Head of State.
The themes of the tour include strong historic and diplomatic links between the United Kingdom and all three countries. There will be a particular focus on commercial opportunities for British business to support our economy, military co-operation, environmental sustainability, social cohesion and youth opportunities.
Unquote

Excuse me if it has been posted earlier, I'm losing track now!
During this tour most of us have had to rethink a few biases! It's been hilarious as well as edifying! Our butts have been kicked by the royals involved... great !

viv

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

She's Australian not British, born in Tasmania and raised there. John Donaldson is Scottish, so has greater ties to the crown and country than Mary.

2 I believe. However Mary and Frederik are still there parents, and I believe spending time with them on one day in the weekend would be more than appropriate. You might want to check over Muhler's post about how this engagement worked and having a Danish Royal attend would have rather "upstaged" the occasion.

So was he there officially to represent the Danish Royal Family was he? Where did you read that? I thought he was invited as John Donaldson.

She's not Australian - not anymore. Didn't she give up her Australian citizenship when she moved to Denmark?

Mary is of British descent, and spent several years in the UK apparently. QEII was her monarch for most of her life. Is it asking too much that those links would make her want to attend a service celebrating her reign?

Given that John Donaldson was planting a tree with Charles and photographed doing so, his presence looked pretty official to me.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Do be sure to inform Charles of that won't you, and indeed the Queen. I mean, having had the Danish Queen come to stay at Sandringham (the guest of Charles) and Balmoral I believe (as the quest of the Queen) certainly supports that "theory". And that Margrethe has been known to attend tea at Buckingham Palace on occasion whilst in London for private leisure, or that it's no secret that the Duke of Edinburgh is known to get on very well indeed with the Danish monarch for that matter all but supports the above "theory" that the British royal family aren't all that close to their Danish counterparts.

No doubt the Queen is demanding a regular update as to which member of the DRF is accompanying her darling son and his wife, and is using this visit as a means of clearing her guilt ridden conscience. But of course, now why didn't I think of that!

Not forgetting that Edward is godfather to a Danish prince.

Oh yeah, these families have a long history of being at war with each other. You can almost see the daggars in each others eyes when they look at each other. I am surprised QMII didn't pack herself off to France to avoid the annoying British relations all together.

QEII is probably so insulted no one went to church with her son she is already cancelling the Danes invites to her Diamond Jubilee parties and strip her of the Garter and definitely no more tea at Buckingham Palace or private weekends at Sandringham, Balmoral or Highgrove. The UN Secretary General is reportedly so concerned he has put the Security Council on alert fearing war might break out between the 2 nations

Some people really need to get a grip

[marfre]

Where is the photo of Prof Donaldson planting the tree with Prince Charles?

We see photos of Prof Donaldson shovelling some dirt into the same hole as Prince Charles, but I have not seen a photo of Charles and Camilla being there at this time.
Do we know if Charles and Camilla had left before Prof Donaldson took to the shovel.
There appears to be less people around.

[sophie25]

A poster earlier mentioned that the Danish Press got Camilla's titles wrong but even in this country (ie Britain) it's still not uncommon for her to be referred to in print as Camilla Parker-Bowles. I think that when the public know you for so long as a certain "name", in her case as Prince Charles' long-term mistress during his marraige, it's very difficult to change how people see you even if they are not trying to be rude.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by EIIR

She's not Australian - not anymore. Didn't she give up her Australian citizenship when she moved to Denmark?

Mary is of British descent, and spent several years in the UK apparently. QEII was her monarch for most of her life. Is it asking too much that those links would make her want to attend a service celebrating her reign?

Given that John Donaldson was planting a tree with Charles and photographed doing so, his presence looked pretty official to me.

Just because you renounce your citizenship does not make you forget the country you grew up. She's a born and bred Australian, a piece of paper doesn't need to confirm that.
Being of British descent and living in the UK for a few years shows nothing about loyalty to a monarch.

Simple fact is, no member of the Danish Royal Family attended the event today. End of story I think now.

[Muhler]

Let's have a look at Monday's events shall we?

This is where the part of the visit that officially involves the DRF begins.
At 10.05 C&C accompanied by M&F will visit Kastellet. A part of Copenhagen fortress.
Kastellet, Copenhagen - Kopi.JPG - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
It is still a military area.
Here C&C will meet some of the Danish Afghanistan veterans during a reception afterwards. Danish and British forces have fought together for years in the Helmand province. As such the military ties are close.
Some Danes have served and serve under British command, some Britons have served and serve under Danish command. - During the annual Flag Day, the names of foreign nationals killed while serving under Danish command are read out and honoured. They include Britons (and Baltic nationals).

Kastellet is located not far from Amalienborg and you will notice the Anglican Church, St Albans, which has been discussed so thoroughly today, is located just on the other side of the moat to the south.

Later on, at 13.00. C&C will visit the town of Helsingør. Here they will among other things visit the fortress of Kronborg:
Kronborg Fortress - Kopi.jpg - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Perhaps best known from the play Hamlet.
Kronborg is a fortress from the 1500's and it was hyper modern when Shakespeare wrote Hamlet and being a fairly well informed man he would no doubt have heard about the fortress.
There is a similar fortress on the now Swedish side of the sound.
The sound is about 6 kilometres wide and the heavy artillery from both fortresses had a range of about 3 kilometres, thus commanding the shipping lane completely.
The cannons at Kronborg are more than 250 years old and they are considered the oldest working artillery in the world. - Abeit slightly old fashioned.
Unsurprisingly Kronborg is considered THE place to act for Shakespearian actors and there is indeed such a workshop at Kronborg right now.
The last time Kronborg fired it's cannons in anger was in 1807 against English warships.

[NGalitzine]

Is anyone from the DRF going with C&C to Kronborg? LOL

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Is anyone from the DRF going with C&C to Kronborg? LOL

AFAIK, then the CPC will accompany them at least when they visit St. Marys Church

This the church, St. Marys Church, that they are going to visit tomorrow:
Sct. Mariæ Kirke, Helsingør.jpg - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

And here you can see more of the interiour of the church:
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankt_M...r_Frue_Kloster

And the history of the Carmelite Priory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmeli...Helsing%C3%B8r

And the route from Kronborg Castle to the church - according to Google:
The route from Kronborg Castle to Sct. Mariæ Kirke - well, according to Google.jpg - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[Tyger]

Hi. I've just read this thread and the discussion about the presence of the Donaldsons at the tree planting - and Charles and Camilla talking to them.

You know, just musing, I'm on this Forum because I had an interest in discussing something to do with a particular personage in the BRF. That done (mostly - it can still erupt upon occasion ) I still hang around because there's some groovy conversations, some very nice people and some very cool topics to discuss with the odd extra half hour or so in a day or week.

Surprises of surprises, too, I've learned stuff and got to 'know' Royal people (sort of) that I would never have given a second thought to (and still don't in my 'normal' life).

However, I have never once for a moment ever felt that Royalty was better than me, different than me, or exclusive from me except in all the normal ways we are removed from each other in life through geography, education, wealth and social circles. That people actually believe that ancient protocols (and blood-lines ) trump current egalitarianism - well

Color me