The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Muhler]

I. IMO, there's nothing embarrasing about training your public speaking skills - in fact, I admire people who own up to their own shortcomings.

Is there anything grander, than people who are honestly trying to better themselves?

Agree whole heartedly.

Self aknowledgment and the willingness to ask for help when you need it are praiseworthy traits.

 

[Terri Terri]

If he has a medical (or mental) condition/block, I think he should let that fact seep to the press, and then make an article about it.

Really?...or would the same press and critics turn around and use it against him even more? And you're right...too many articles have been written about his poor communication skills for for him not to be aware...especially in connection to his candidature for the IOC.

That's why I hate politicians and journalists so much. That and the fact that they are despicable vermin.

It's worked before. Queen Ingrid was very much the stabilizing factor in the lives of her and King Frederik IX. Granted, she was a princess from birth - but it was Ingrid who held things together when it came to "formalia".

You said it! She was a princess from birth - that makes all of the difference for some people.
In addition, these are very different times for monarchies!

 

[mrsbugman]

Isn't this the whole subject of King George, and QEQM lives. The movie The "Kings Speech". The wife steps in and helps the husband.

 

[Terri Terri]

Yes it is! Don't get me wrong...I am not dismissing the support that CP Frederk receives from his wife...or the support that Queen Ingrid gave to Frederik IX or that King George received from Queen Elizabeth.

I am focusing on CP Frederik and what he can do to improve his speech patterns, and ultimately, his communication skills with the media and public. Afterall, he chose to put himself forward as the Danish candidate for the IOC, one of the most political sports organizations around...and his communication style and media skills are very important.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Well...that's not good enough IMO. His wife isn't going to rule...He is. A supportive wife can't be his continuous savior.

It has worked in Sweden, where Silvia made up for the King's shortcomings. I am sure Mary will play a vital role in Frederiks concept of reign.

Whether Frederik is suitable or not as King we will only see from when his reign starts. It depends how his shortcomings are being perceived by the Danes. So far, the public loves the imperfect heir. Will they love an imperfect King? Similar to all other heirs, the cost/benefit ratio will apply much more to him than it did to his predecessor.

 

[Tilla]

Well, he certainly has quite a panoply of all categories of teachers, consultants etc. at his disposal, and why not psychologists, as , unfortunately, it seems he had a difficult childhood.

 

[Muhler]

ItWhether Frederik is suitable or not as King we will only see from when his reign starts. It depends how his shortcomings are being perceived by the Danes. So far, the public loves the imperfect heir. Will they love an imperfect King?

That's the question. It of course depends on what you expect and how you view him, not least in the chosen role he will and is taking on.

Personally I first and foremost view him based on how he is as a husband, father and human being. - In that respect I see him as an excellent role model. This is where I personally feel I can relate to him.

I respect him for his accomplishments in the Frogman Corps and in Sirius, but these achievements are not that important in his role as a king.

It's no secret that I'm less impressed with him when it comes to presenting and representing. I believe he needs help and he needs to ask for help.

I acknowledge his endearing appeal to a wide segment of the population, which should not be underestimated. - It may be that I look too much at his qualifications rather than his human traits.

I believe Frederik and the Danes are very fortunate in having Mary by his side. She is in my opinion clearly his rock, his base, and they supplement each other extremely well, not least when on the job together.

 

[Terri Terri]

So far, the public loves the imperfect heir. Will they love an imperfect King?

Good point. And I don't think we want a perfect CP Frederik or a perfect King Frederik...there are no perfect human beings. We are discussing a required improvement in his speech and communication skills. Its training...if you are expecting a "promotion"...then you need the skills required to do the job.

it seems he had a difficult childhood

o.k...he may have had a difficult childhood...but he is now a 42 year old married man and father of 4 children. Suppose it takes years for him to become King...can a "difficult childhood" be used for a lack of communication skills still? IMO...the answer to that is "No".

 

[Susanna Wynne]

I do not speak Danish, but I am a well-practiced speaker of English, and am aware of the nuances of both American and British English. Younger British English speakers all use "fantastic" "brilliant" "massive" and so on. I notice this from people a generation down from me, which would be Frederik's generation. Certainly I notice this in Prince William's speech patterns, but also in news interviews with journalists under, for example, 50 or 55. It may be that Frederik, who speaks excellent English and certainly speaks English at least some of the time at home, considering it is the CPsesse's native tongue, is quite influenced by such constructions and this more youthful manner of expression.

His English in the presser was quite good. And he certainly showed flashes of wit, without which he would be quite a dullard. Wit, perforce, requires intelligence.

Again, I cannot evaluate his Danish, but is it so much worse than his English?? I would be surprised. I am interested in hearing on this point from other forum members...

Willem-Alexander's English is quite good, but is without the sense of good humour that both Pr. William and CP Frederik readily display.

 

[TLLK]

IMO, I've always perceived from CP Frederik that he appears to be very apprehensive about his future role. I sense a certain reluctance in his speech, posture and facial expressions when he is interviewed. Now I believe that all of the current adult Crown Princes/Princess have felt anxiety or even episodes of self-doubt regarding their future roles. However, it appears to me that the rest of them have become more comfortable with their futures. I hope that Frederik will too.

 

[nwinther]

I do not speak Danish, but I am a well-practiced speaker of English, and am aware of the nuances of both American and British English. Younger British English speakers all use "fantastic" "brilliant" "massive" and so on.

But that doesn't mean it's desirable. IMO quite the contrary. As the nations peerless representative, he should have command of a dignified danish, and shouldn't let his vocabulary be so "totally" dominated by superlatives.

It may be that Frederik, who speaks excellent English and certainly speaks English at least some of the time at home, considering it is the CPsesse's native tongue, is quite influenced by such constructions and this more youthful manner of expression.

Then why isn't Joachim influenced by the same "bug". Surely he spoke quite a bit of english with Alexandra. In fact, Frederiks command of danish was a problem long before he met Mary. I just assume it comes easier to some than others.

His English in the presser was quite good. And he certainly showed flashes of wit, without which he would be quite a dullard. Wit, perforce, requires intelligence.

Again, I cannot evaluate his Danish, but is it so much worse than his English?? I would be surprised. I am interested in hearing on this point from other forum members...

I think his English sounds better than his Danish - and so does his German. Mind you, my German is very poor, so I'm not such a good judge.

 

[Sternchen]

I think his English sounds better than his Danish - and so does his German. Mind you, my German is very poor, so I'm not such a good judge.

I don't remember him speaking German, do you have a video of it?

 

[eliz]

hi everybody!
back home from a long day at work and tried to catch up with the thread.
many interesting points raised, and many observations:

First of all, i think we should distinguish the occasions in which frederik has to read a previously written speech from the ones when he has to answer questions without the aid of a written scheme.

as far as the reading of a written speech goes, it would fairly simple ti improve: together with his assistants he writes down what he has to say (and we all know that even great speakers such as Obama or Clinton have ghost writers, so i reckon frederik has one as well) and he reads it beforehand so as to give each word the right intonation and expression. i have watched two such occasion of his, his wedding speech and the speech on his mother 70th birthday, and he seemed pretty good. he did not show anxiety, as far as i could understand he did not stumble upon words, all in all very good performances where he managed to be personal, emotional and deep in his reflections even in a formal/fixed context.
i would like to know from the danes in the frum if these have been special occasions in which he had been excpetionally above his standards, or if he is ok at reading a written speech.

as far as interviews or free speech go, it is surely the hader work. he was ok (as in normal, not making me wonder if there was a problem there) to me after the twins were born (i judge the enlgish part only, on course), but you have already said that he had been better than his usual in this occasion. possibly he should try and keep his sentences shorter and really really focus on what he wants to convey. but i suspect we would get a duller and more controlled version of federik, which i am not sure would be an improvement.

there comes, in fact, the important factor of his charisma, of his being, or seeimg, open, warm, friendly and utterly likeable. well i think this could, and probably does, compensate at least in part for his defects as a speaker. i would even go on and say that maybe he sounds worse in official, formal occasions not in as much as he is overconscious of himself or overanxious - i repeat, he did not seem so at margrethe's birthday, but bc the occasion stiffles, so to speak, his character and so a defect which in less formal events is partially hidden by his personal charisma gets more prominence.
anyhow, were he to be a less nice guy, i suspect the press would criticise him a lot, while i get the impression that they like him.

 

[Muhler]

i would like to know from the danes in the frum if these have been special occasions in which he had been excpetionally above his standards, or if he is ok at reading a written speech.

Thanks for your observations.

I'd say he's okay, when reading a speech. He's not a brilliant speaker, that's to a large degree a talent in itself.

He has a tendency to stumble over the words and pause at the wrong places. Things that are typical of someone who is not used to (or comfortable about) giving speeches and someone who reads a speech out loud, gather than holding a speech.

He is at his best when what he says comes from the heart, whether is in a speech or something spontanous.

My impression of his English, is that he use the exact same speech pattern when dealing with the press as he does in Danish.

I believe he needs really intensive PR training and then a couple of victories. Then we'll see a different Frederik begin to emerge.

I don't remember him speaking German, do you have a video of it?

There are vids of him talking to German children. In Flensburg I believe.
That was an example of where Frederik was at his best. - With children.
He was relaxed, focused on the children and talking about a "kind dragon who lived at their palace".

 

[eliz]

I believe he needs really intensive PR training and then a couple of victories. Then we'll see a different Frederik begin to emerge.

as i said, i fear that intensive pr training, though very useful useful to overcome certain defects, could make him more formal and fixed, as he would speak according to a given pattern and not following what he really feels need to be said.
i don't not if it is worth the risk: not understanding danish i do not fully appreciate how lacking he is in oratorial abilities, but i would certainly like less a federik without spontaneity, folksy attitude, likeable body language.

i reckon he should try to read written speeches at his best, which is quite easily achieved, and the try to really focus and concentrate when he answers "random" questions. bc i get the impression, and correct me if i'm wrong, that he is often a bit in a world to himself- see e.g. when with mary on public duties, they often talk to each other, laugh. exchange private looks and so on, and he seems quite absorbed by this inner life of his. more absorbed by it than by the event going on around him.

 

[Sternchen]

as i said, i fear that intensive pr training, though very useful useful to overcome certain defects, could make him more formal and fixed, as he would speak according to a given pattern and not following what he really feels need to be said.
i don't not if it is worth the risk: not understanding danish i do not fully appreciate how lacking he is in oratorial abilities, but i would certainly like less a federik without spontaneity, folksy attitude, likeable body language.

I think the risk is quiet high, as you rightly mention. We all have seen politicians who seem to have booked the same trainer, they all us the same rethorical figures, the same gestures, and the same methodes.
And I don't think anybody would want Frederik to talk in the same way as a politician

 

[mrsbugman]

I don't know anything about speaking in public. I think there are some things that just never come naturally. I have read that even seasoned professionals like Barbra Streisand have problems "going on stage".

 

[Cinderella5x]

I have a question: what exactly does it mean to be a suitable king? The way someone talks? The education? Something else? What is it? What makes one a suitable king? Maybe we should start with answering that question to try and figure out if Frederik fits in? IDK, just an idea.

 

[Muhler]

as i said, i fear that intensive pr training, though very useful useful to overcome certain defects, could make him more formal and fixed, as he would speak according to a given pattern and not following what he really feels need to be said.
i don't not if it is worth the risk: not understanding danish i do not fully appreciate how lacking he is in oratorial abilities, but i would certainly like less a federik without spontaneity, folksy attitude, likeable body language.

i reckon he should try to read written speeches at his best, which is quite easily achieved, and the try to really focus and concentrate when he answers "random" questions. bc i get the impression, and correct me if i'm wrong, that he is often a bit in a world to himself- see e.g. when with mary on public duties, they often talk to each other, laugh. exchange private looks and so on, and he seems quite absorbed by this inner life of his. more absorbed by it than by the event going on around him.

Yes Eliz, let's get back on track.

That's a valid point. A "trained" Frederik may lose his (to so many) endearing spontainity.

 

[sgl]

(...)

Eliz and Muhler-I agree with you about Frederik and more training. He can't seem to finish his sentences. I think that some more training would help him to stay organized and focused. He's clearly very intelligent, but he's having difficulty in getting the words out it seems.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I have a question: what exactly does it mean to be a suitable king? The way someone talks? The education? Something else? What is it? What makes one a suitable king? Maybe we should start with answering that question to try and figure out if Frederik fits in? IDK, just an idea.

A suitable King, IMO, is someone who has the faith and confidence of his people.
A king who the people aren't ashamed to call King. When they say "For King and Country", they actually mean it. When they go off to war and say they will fight for their King, they mean that as well.

 

[Sternchen]

I have a question: what exactly does it mean to be a suitable king? The way someone talks? The education? Something else? What is it? What makes one a suitable king? Maybe we should start with answering that question to try and figure out if Frederik fits in? IDK, just an idea.

IIRC the discussion was started in another thread and was originaly about the way Fred speaks in public (I think it started in the thread about Mary, Fred and the twins leaving the hospital) and from there it was moved to this thread by the mods. I don't think we will get a general definition of "suitable" as everyone has his/her own interpretation of what is suitable

But it is definetly a start What makes Frederik a suitable king in your opinion

I am realy looking forward to your view

 

[Cinderella5x]

A suitable King, IMO, is someone who has the faith and confidence of his people.
A king who the people aren't ashamed to call King. When they say "For King and Country", they actually mean it. When they go off to war and say they will fight for their King, they mean that as well.

So, whether he is or is not an "academic" has nothing to do with a suitability to be a king? I mean, it seems to me Frederik is not someone his country would need to be ashamed of. It seems most Danes are quite pleased with the idea of him being a king. Isn't that the suitability he needs? Also, I would assume, he was educated the way a future king needs to be educated.

 

[sgl]

(...)

I think that Frederik's military training and warmth among the people he meets are very good qualifications for a future king. He's great with people, and that is very important IMO.

 

[Cinderella5x]

IIRC the discussion was started in another thread and was originaly about the way Fred speaks in public (I think it started in the thread about Mary, Fred and the twins leaving the hospital) and from there it was moved to this thread by the mods. I don't think we will get a general definition of "suitable" as everyone has his/her own interpretation of what is suitable

But it is definetly a start What makes Frederik a suitable king in your opinion

I am realy looking forward to your view

I have to admit, I do not follow DRF that much to have a steady opinion on that. But, from all I see and read, Frederik doesn't lack the education he needs to be a good king. He also, it seems to me, has a full support of the majority of the Danes, which I would assume, is a key. Is he an ideal candidate - IDK, but I am certain he does and will represent his country in a manner that people will be proud of him.

 

[sgl]

(...)

Frederik seems like an outdoorsy person. He is probably also quite interested in the way things are grown. I like this quality in Frederik. He never seems to back down from a challenge-as is evident in his bicycle races, his frogman training and his strong desire to be part of the IOC.

 

[Muhler]

What defines a king?
Phew, you do ask some difficult questions!

A king, well a monarch, is a person, who is feels natural for the nation to look to and gather around in times of crisis.
A person who by his attitude, lifestyle, moral standing and convictions does his best to be a living role model.
A person who is not perfect, a person who has faults without which it would be difficult to associate with him or find him endearing.
A person who with the abillities and talents he is born with, does not only his best, but his very best in the service of his country and people.
A man who has a very high personal integrity.

A man I can point at and say with pride: "That's my King". That's the official representative of my country and he's doing a damned good job.
A man I would lament, when he is gone.

 

[TLLK]

What defines a king?
Phew, you do ask some difficult questions!

A king, well a monarch, is a person, who is feels natural for the nation to look to and gather around in times of crisis.
A person who by his attitude, lifestyle, moral standing and convictions does his best to be a living role model.
A person who is not perfect, a person who has faults without which it would be difficult to associate with him or find him endearing.
A person who with the abillities and talents he is born with, does not only his best, but his very best in the service of his country and people.
A man who has a very high personal integrity.

A man I can point at and say with pride: "That's my King". That's the official representative of my country and he's doing a damned good job.
A man I would lament, when he is gone.

Thank you for such an excellent response.

 

[JessRulz]

I have just spent the last 45 minutes going through this thread, cleaning it up following a huge derailment which saw Joachim become the main focus of this thread - not the individual listed in the topic title, Frederik.

As I stated in a previous mod post, this thread is about Frederik and his suitabilty to be King. Not Joachim, not Mary, not any of the other Crown Princes and their respective wives. Bringing any of the above into this discussion accomplishes nothing but to drag this thread off-track every day and cause the moderators headaches when they must go along behind everyone and clean up a trail of off-topic posts.

References to Joachim and his farming, and implying that he is not worthy, etc because he is 'merely a farmer' are not the point of this thread - keep Joachim to his own sub-forum.

Any future posts which go off-topic will be deleted by a moderator without notice. If this thread continues to be a source of arguments and derailments, it may be closed permanently.

Lastly, if you have an issue with another member - contact a moderator/administrator via PM. Do not continue to drag out the issue in-thread.

JessRulz
For the Danish Moderators

 

[Frelinghighness]

A king, well a monarch, is a person, who is feels natural for the nation to look to and gather around in times of crisis.
A person who by his attitude, lifestyle, moral standing and convictions does his best to be a living role model.
A person who is not perfect, a person who has faults without which it would be difficult to associate with him or find him endearing.
A person who with the abillities and talents he is born with, does not only his best, but his very best in the service of his country and people.
A man who has a very high personal integrity.

A man I can point at and say with pride: "That's my King". That's the official representative of my country and he's doing a damned good job.
A man I would lament, when he is gone.

Like King George VI (as in "Kings Speech) !