The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Madame Royale]

"I don't care what they call you...I brought u in this world and I'll take you out"

Haha, ah yes! A parent's prerogative

At least to the age of Absolutism if not before

Yes I thought it would have to stretch back to the time of Absolutism or before, as you say, if there were in fact any women who found themselves in the said position.

So ultimately the title 'enkeprinsesse' could be created if the monarch chose to do so. Though as you say, there is no past precedence for it.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Is the title Crown Princess still considered an unsuitable title for a Princess who is heiress presumptive, or has there been some law to give it two meanings instead of just the 1?
Also if it was me, I would still, in private at least, delegate to my father no matter if I was Head of State.
I can just imagine my parents saying "I don't care what they call you...I brought u in this world and I'll take you out" : \

There can be only one crown princess: The heir or the wife of the crown prince.
Everybody else are just princesses.

The title of crown princess implies that she is destined to become the next queen. Unless something unfortunate happens.

A king Frederik is the head of his family as well as the head of state. He may listen a lot to his father's advise, but it's Frederik who is in charge.

Should a chauffeur kick one of the dachshunds and Prince Henrik retalliates by planting a meatcleaver in the head of that chauffeur, it will be king Frederik who will ultimately decide what sanctions will be taken against PH.

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

So ultimately the title 'enkeprinsesse' could be created if the monarch chose to do so. Though as you say, there is no past precedence for it.

Yes, that is entirely up to the monarch.

But it's an empty title. It's how she is treated that matters. Mary will be treated with that respect that befits the mother of the next king.

[Madame Royale]

I agree wholeheartedly with you Muhler. It's all reflected in how an indavidual is treated. As the mother of an heir or monarch and three other Danish princess' and prince, Mary's position of seniority and importance within the family is unquestionably secured.

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by FasterB

Are you sure he won´t be CP in the moment his dad is king?
Jeg synes at have læst, at Frederik blev kronprins, da Kong Frederik den 9. døde... Nu har jeg skrevet til Hofmarskallatet og spurgt dem :) :) : )

Well, I´ve received an answer from the Court. And when King Frederik IX died, then the then Princess Margrethe became Queen Margrethe II and the then Prince Frederik became Crown Prince Frederik So he has been Crown Prince since the 14th January 1972.

[Muhler]

Thank you for a great initiative, FasterB

And I was proven wrong, not for the first and hopefully not for the last time.

[muriel]

In the event of the death of Frederick within the current reign, I think Mary will be referred to as Princess Mary, and not Crown Princess Mary.

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Thank you for a great initiative, FasterB

And I was proven wrong, not for the first and hopefully not for the last time.

You´re so welcome, Muhler

I think by the answer from the court can conclude (konkludere) that when QMII dies and CP Frederik becomes King Frederik X then Prince Christian will be Crown Prince Christian - no matter his age

[Muhler]

Inspired by a Q&A in Billed Bladet #49, 2012, let's have a look at what happens when QMII dies.

As you know Frederik will become king the second his mother dies and there is no coronation, there are however a few traditions.

Let's say QMII dies in the evening.

The colour of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment's guard detachment, will be moved form the mansion where the Regent Couple lives to the mansion where M&F now live.
The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

The employees at the court are also dismissed, but most are rehired again to serve the new monarch. - Exceptions will be QMII's private secretary, her court chief and similar close associates. Frederik after all has his own staff.

In the weeks to follow all QMII's monograms will be replaced with Frederik's monogram on letter heads, sentry boxes, uniforms (including the epaulettes of the Royal Lifeguard), colours, stamps, government buildings and so on.
In embassies the traditional portraits of the Regent Couple will be replaced with portraits of M&F.

[Charlotte_Aster]

Does this mean there are "official portraits of King Frederik X and Queen Mary" just lying around in some warehouse?

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

Does this mean there are "official portraits of King Frederik X and Queen Mary" just lying around in some warehouse?

I suspect all that will happen is that when the time comes, Fred & Mary will pose for some photographs, which will be reproduced and used across the country.

[Jacknch]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Inspired by a Q&A in Billed Bladet #49, 2012, let's have a look at what happens when QMII dies.

As you know Frederik will become king the second his mother dies and there is no coronation, there are however a few traditions.

Let's say QMII dies in the evening.

The colour of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment's guard detachment, will be moved form the mansion where the Regent Couple lives to the mansion where M&F now live.
The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

The employees at the court are also dismissed, but must are rehired again to serve the new monarch. - Exceptions will be QMII's private secretary, her court chief and similar close associates. Frederik after all has his own staff.

In the weeks to follow all QMII's monograms will be replaced with Frederik's monogram on letter heads, sentry boxes, uniforms (including the epaulettes of the Royal Lifeguard), colors, stamps, government buildings and so on.
In embassies the traditional portraits of the Regent Couple will be replaced with portraits of M&F.

Many thanks for providing this information. I do hope that many years will pass before we see the reality of these interesting and unique traditions, as I do love Queen Margrethe very much.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

Does this mean there are "official portraits of King Frederik X and Queen Mary" just lying around in some warehouse?

Almost.
Every couple of years new photos are made of the DRF in full gala.
These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.
There are of course also such photos of M&F hanging in the embassies. It will be no problem to put such a photo of M&F on the place of honor, replacing the photo of the current Regent Couple.
And after a while new official photos, including the traditional one of the monarch (i.e. Frederik) in profile, will be made.

Originally Posted by muriel

I suspect all that will happen is that when the time comes, Fred & Mary will pose for some photographs, which will be reproduced and used across the country.

Originally Posted by Jacknch

Many thanks for providing this information. I do hope that many years will pass before we see the reality of these interesting and unique traditions, as I do love Queen Margrethe very much.

You are welcome.
And you are right, many if not most will lament the passing of QMII.
But according to polls, M&F don't have to fear the transition, the people is ready and willing for M&F to take over.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Inspired by a Q&A in Billed Bladet #49, 2012, let's have a look at what happens when QMII dies.

As you know Frederik will become king the second his mother dies and there is no coronation, there are however a few traditions.

Let's say QMII dies in the evening.

The colour of the Royal Lifeguard Regiment's guard detachment, will be moved form the mansion where the Regent Couple lives to the mansion where M&F now live.
The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

The employees at the court are also dismissed, but must are rehired again to serve the new monarch. - Exceptions will be QMII's private secretary, her court chief and similar close associates. Frederik after all has his own staff.

In the weeks to follow all QMII's monograms will be replaced with Frederik's monogram on letter heads, sentry boxes, uniforms (including the epaulettes of the Royal Lifeguard), colors, stamps, government buildings and so on.
In embassies the traditional portraits of the Regent Couple will be replaced with portraits of M&F.

Thank you for that extra information I didn't know about employees at the court being dismissed and hadn't thought about the royal monograms!

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Almost.
Every couple of years new photos are made of the DRF in full gala.
These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.
There are of course also such photos of M&F hanging in the embassies. It will be no problem to put such a photo of M&F on the place of honor, replacing the photo of the current Regent Couple.
And after a while new official photos, including the traditional one of the monarch (i.e. Frederik) in profile, will be made.





You are welcome.
And you are right, many if not most will lament the passing of QMII.
But according to polls, M&F don't have to fear the transition, the people is ready and willing for M&F to take over.

that is def. good to hear.
thank you for writing about the steps that take place

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Muhler

The next forenoon there will be an extraordinary State Council after that the Prime Minister will proclaim from the balcony at either Christiansborg or Amalienborg (M&F's mansion to be exact) and announce to the four corners of the world that: Queen Margrethe II is dead. Long live His Majesty King Frederik X.
Then Frederik will give a short speech and at the same time announce his proverb.
The procalmation is merely ceremonial, Frederik will already have been king for hours.

I´m almost 99,9% sure that it will be from the balcony at Christiansborg, since it will be there that the State Council will take place :)

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by FasterB

I´m almost 99,9% sure that it will be from the balcony at Christiansborg, since it will be there that the State Council will take place :)

So am I, FasterB, but Jon Bloch Skipper wrote Christiansborg or Amalienborg and since he's the expert....

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Muhler

So am I, FasterB, but Jon Bloch Skipper wrote Christiansborg or Amalienborg and since he's the expert....

Ok, then you´re not the one to bash, sorry

But Jon has been wrong before and I think that he´s making a "helgardering" (don´t know the english word" here).
Why should it be on proclaimed from Amalienborg? It is after at Christiansborg that the Prime Minister and the government has its place (til huse)

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Muhler

These pictures are normally for the press and also for the embassies in various countries.

I wrote to the court earlier this year, where I could get portraits of the queen and prince consort, as I was interested in hanging them in my office (I'm a public servant).

This wasn't very easy - the courts press office wanted to know what I would be using them for, where they were to hang and what my position is. I didn't realize it was that difficult to get my hands on, as the pictures exist in a digital format many places online (although not in a quality suited for print).

This was the reply:

Originally Posted by Astrid Agerholm Ruge

Kære Nikolaj Winther

Tak for Deres brev af den 11. april 2012 med forespørgsel om officielle portrætbilleder af Regentparret til ophængning på Deres kontor på Rådhuset i Varde. Vi kan hermed meddele, at Deres forespørgsel kan imødekommes. Billederne kan købes af fotograf Jacob Jørgensen, der har ophavsrettigheden. Han kan kontaktes for bestilling via:

JJ Film Aps
Wilders Plads 8G
1403 København K
Tlf.: 36303200

Med venlig hilsen

Astrid Agerholm Ruge

Translation:

Dear Nikolaj Winther

Thank you for your letter of 11. april 2012, requesting official portraits of the Regent couple for display at your office at Varde Municipality. We can hereby announce that your request can be accomodated. The portraits can be purchased at photographer Jacob Jørgensen, who retains the copyright. He can be contacted for order via:

JJ Film Aps
Wilders Plads 8G
1403 København K
Tlf.: 36303200

Sincerely
Astrid Agerholm Ruge

[Muhler]

Queen Beatrix abdication has of course also led to some debate here in DK as to whether QMII ought to abdicate. - Not because people in general think she has done bad, on the contrary! - But more because she deserves to retire and enjoy her retirement. In many ways the younger generation has already taken over anyway.

I saw a poll, which showed a small majority being in favour of M&F taking over, either now or within a few years.

There is no way QMII will abdicate. She has said so often enough and I think it would also be against her interpretation as a Monarch. She will remain on the throne until she dies.

However, what about Frederik and Mary? Would it be a good idea if they started a tradition like the one in the Netherlands?

Personally, I think so.
Let's be practical. Say Frederik become king when he is 50. Okay he is healthy and has access to the best possible medical care and as such he's likely to live until he is 90, perhaps older.
Okay that means that Christian will be around 55 when he becomes king. And his generation is likely to live for at least 100 years. So Christian's heir may be around 70 when he/she become a monarch and then it's starting to be a little bit grotesque.
Good grief! We'll have pensioners trying to put their special mark on their reign.
QMII was in her 30's when she became Queen, and that has very much helped her redefining what the monarchy is all about, because she became Queen when she was in her prime.

Say Frederik is 65 when he become a king. By then people will start to look at Christian and his life and probably family, rather than at how Frederik is doing.
Wouldn't it be healthier if monarchs retired around the normal retirement age?

Another part of me admittedly still clings to the tradition of once a monarch, you die a monarch.

[ricarda]

AFAIR Margrethe actually said she will not abdicate as long as she is physically and mentally able to do the job.

I think for the monarchies itself it would be healthier if the idea "monarch until death" would be given up. The Dutch and Luxembourg way seems more modern and realistic to me.
As I said in a Dutch thread I find the British situation really problematic, with an heir already in retirement age who - given his mother's good health and genes - might still not ascend the throne for another decade or more and will probably be older at his coronation than Beatrix is at her abdication. What will he be able to do or change then?

I also think that a monarch's reign should not be too long, because the result usually is stagnation. But it's the heir who has to face all the problems afterwards. In my country Franz Joseph was emperor for 68 years and that was definitely too long. But it was Karl who had to pay the bill (there was a lost world war of course).

And the poll I saw (DR) did not have a small majority for abdication but a vast (89%).