The Future of the Danish Monarchy

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by inglebug

I'd like to pose a question for all the Danes out there:

Is there currently, or has there ever been any question, within Denmark, as to Frederik's suitability for the kingship?

I know of reports that he's struggled with his own self-doubt in the past, but has there ever been a time when people have not respected him?

I don't think his suitablity or should I say his qualifications has been seriously questioned. It isn't now. And certainly not since Mary entered the scene.
It was more a question of preference.

Frederik went through a crisis when he was in his early 20's in particular. During which he was very much in doubt whether he wanted to be a king. And the prospect of becoming a king wasn't something he looked forward to, to put it mildly.
That shined through in his attitude, of course.

Then Joachim married when he was in his mid 20's. Alexandra became the undisputed star of the DRF and that of course rubbed off on Joachim. Who on top of that, no matter what people may think of him, is good when it comes to appearances.
And Frederik stood there alone, outshined, with no one at his side. No one serious that is.
When he turned 30 many people said: "Will he ever grow up? - Will he ever settle down? - If we could elect our king, why not Joachim? He and Alexandra seems to be doing a fine job".

Until around 2000 I was among those who preferred Joachim. After 2000 I began to realise Frederik's human qualities. As I got older myself, other qualities were considered and preferred.
Frederik's human qualities really stood out, when Mary came and when I realised how good she is, and what a good team they are, the table turned for me.
I think he'll do fine now. - He just need some improvement and work here and there.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by Viv

is the IOC- membership a problem for the Danish heir only? What about the other royals in IOC? Have they met similar criticism in their countries??

Viv

When the prince of Orange announced his plans to join the IOC there was quite some criticism, both in the press as in parlament. He announced this in 1998 (not activated immidiately since he had to wait for the green light from The Hague), but the debate about it was postponed to 1999. In June of that year parlament had a debate about the matter, since many though the should cancel his plans. Prime Minister Wim Kok however defended the prince.

The objections mainly focussed on the corruption scandals in the IOC, and if our future head of state would or would not be compromised in working with so many corrupt people. Jacques Rogge & co investigated the IOC corruption and announced some measures, after which the prime minister allowe dthe membership of the prince to be activated.

In 1998 the announcement came as a big surprise, and apart from the corruption charges, a lot of attention was given to the fact that he only got the position due to nepotism. Apparently his staunchest supporters were NOC/NSF charwoman Erica Terpstra and his parents. Wouter Huibregsen, the original Dutch IOC candidate was angry as he claimed in an interview to the Volkskrant that the prince promissed to support him, and in the interview he called the prince a judas, coward and saboteur (statements that he would deny later on btw).

When the prince joined the comittee the criticism quickly disappeared.

-------

As for Frederiks suitability: I think that as long as people are potty trained and can eat with a fork and knive, they are suitable enough for the throne . Not all monarchs are good in holding speeches, overly clever etc. but usually they can all work out a way that makes the job suit their personality and skills.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Marengo

As for Frederiks suitability: I think that as long as people are potty trained and can eat with a fork and knive, they are suitable enough for the throne . Not all monarchs are good in holding speeches, overly clever etc. but usually they can all work out a way that makes the job suit their personality and skills.

Amen to that!

Plus, usually there are lots of unnoticed people in the background who can make up for all kind of shortcomings. Its a political / media environment where a capable Director or Communications and Strategy can do magic.

[Borlig]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

I do agree with you Eliz.

CP Frederik has the challenge that he must not express any political views. And as an academic he might use long sentences when he is asked a question that he tries to answer without being political

But his warm personality always shows.

As a foreign academic who lived in Denmark (Copenhagen) for 12 years and learned a respectable Danish, I perceive Frederik's public speech to be influenced mostly by his being reared in Copenhagen. Foreigners trying to learn Danish soon realize that the Copenhagen dialect is very hard to understand - it comes across as mumbling with unusal and unexpected (for those not from Copenhagen) syntax. I find very little in Frederik's spontaneous public speaking that seems to be influenced by academia - it sounds like pure Copenhagenese to me!

[Terri Terri]

Thanks for your perspective Borlig! It is interesting to get different view points on this subject from all over the world.

[auntie]

Originally Posted by Borlig

As a foreign academic who lived in Denmark (Copenhagen) for 12 years and learned a respectable Danish, I perceive Frederik's public speech to be influenced mostly by his being reared in Copenhagen. Foreigners trying to learn Danish soon realize that the Copenhagen dialect is very hard to understand - it comes across as mumbling with unusal and unexpected (for those not from Copenhagen) syntax. I find very little in Frederik's spontaneous public speaking that seems to be influenced by academia - it sounds like pure Copenhagenese to me!

I admire the CPrincely couple, but even Copenhaganese people say he is a bumbler as far as speeches go, and how wonderful that Mary makes up for it...

[UserDane]

He can be eloquent actually. He was interviewed on TV on two occasions last week when he was leaving the handball stadium at Malmö - no sign of stumbling og mumbling - on the contrary a hint of the same 'flowery' use of the language his mother has and a nice display of humour.

[T4phage]

"Flowery" language?

[eliz]

Originally Posted by UserDane

He can be eloquent actually. He was interviewed on TV on two occasions last week when he was leaving the handball stadium at Malmö - no sign of stumbling og mumbling - on the contrary a hint of the same 'flowery' use of the language his mother has and a nice display of humour.

i don't understand danish, but indeed his replies sounded quite fluent and his humour was obvious. well maybe, as we habe already said in previous posts, it is because it was a situation in which he felt at ease, spontaneous and relaxed even if the cameras were there.
on the other hand, it is interesting that should it be the case of frederik doing better when interviewed (see also the press conference after the twins' birth) than when reading a prepared speech, then a new speech writer should be hired... (and having a speech writer is absolutely common for public figures, even a great public speaker like bill clinton has one...)

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by T4phage

"Flowery" language?

yes, use of metaphors, his way of describing what had just passed, it reminded me a bit of his mother's use of the Danish language

[MARG]

I think he is wonderful when he is caught on the fly so to speak. He is witty, humorous and not in the least stilted or boring. Now his formal speeches are another story altogether. The are rigid, remote and use a syntax and style of language more in vogue when his parents were young! Fire the speech writer or, more likely, retire him/her.

I think his marriage has done wonders for him. He has someone to love him and care for and about him and him alone. Mary seems to support Fred with ease and style and with the advent of the children people saw a whole new side to Fred. Relaxed, funny, a man who loves his family and is not afraid to show it.

The sort of distant relationship he and his mother endured seems to have been replaced with a relationship they both enjoy and his speech at her birthday was beautiful and covered all the colours that are Fred and the Mother who shaped his destiny.

TRH The Crown Prince Couple - Her Majesty the Queen's 70th birthday

[PrincessDianafan]

I've met him and he seems like a down to earth chap. Think he would make a good king

[MaggieMay]

I don't for a minute profess to be an expert on such things.All I hope for in my heart is that the long running of the monarchy in Denmark continues and that Frederik and his wife Mary reign together as the loving couple they seem to be.I am a bit bias with Mary as I am an Australian who has watched Mary flourish in her role.In my mind I have no doubt as to Frederik's suitability and together Frederik and Mary have done everything expected of them.God Bless them both.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Joachim has been decribed as hot-tempered and moody in the past, an unbalanced Jekyll&Hyde character, unlike Frederik.

Many people wish Joachim was CP but I am in the camp who doesnt.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Joachim has been decribed as hot-tempered and moody in the past, an unbalanced Jekyll&Hyde character, unlike Frederik.

Many people wish Joachim was CP but I am in the camp who doesnt.

Yes, he's a fascinating man, isn't he?

It's difficult to write psycological profiles about anyone but I'll give it a try.

Joachim is a man with inborn contradictions.
By all accounts he is usually a very concientious man in regards to his position and job. He is also very conservative and traditions genuinely means something to him. He is the archetypical English gentleman with a stiff upper lip.
He is in many ways very reserved and he tend to keep people at an arms length, until they have been proved reliable. So does Frederik for that matter, the difference is that it's obvious with Joachim, because he is not as "folksy" as Frederik.
I have the impression that he is a man who resemble his mother in the sense that both of them can become impationt with people who babble too much or who are silly. QMII has openly admitted she has that trait, which she labels "aunt queen talking".
Joachim is in contrast also a very passionate man. That's obvious when we see him with our Marie or his children.
Interestingly is also a man who doesn't sit in a corner, when there is a party or for that matter attending a soccer match. In such situations, he out there!

[edit-JessRulz]
His deep passion for and intensely competitive approach to racing. In my opinion that's clearly an outleft, a way to really blow off steam.
Another little demon he has, is a kind of mischievious humour. That led to Frederik getting some heat after an episode in High school, where it really was Joachim and his friends who caused trouble. - A very minor incident, but things very more quiet back then, so it caused major headlines. And his brother has, according to Joachim, been the victim of several tricks designed to cause some mischief. - Again, I don't blame him, I love to do that myself.

So yes, Frederik has an interesting personality, but so has Joachim.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Very interesting Muhler

In terms of contradiction I'd like to add that Joachim chose different type of women at different stages of his life, first Alexandra, very self confident career woman not afraid to take on the quasi-CP role when Frederik was unmarried.

Now he is back to what suited much better from the beginning for the Men's Man that Joachim is: Marie is more the adoring wifey, no career woman before Joachim, rather dangling along on what her rich family provided, very sweet, quite naive and obviously able to balance her husbands temper.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Very interesting Muhler

In terms of contradiction I'd like to add that Joachim chose different type of women at different stages of his life, first Alexandra, very self confident career woman not afraid to take on the quasi-CP role when Frederik was unmarried.

Now he is back to what suited much better from the beginning for the Men's Man that Joachim is: Marie is more the adoring wifey, no career woman before Joachim, rather dangling along on what her rich family provided, very sweet, quite naive and obviously able to balance her husbands temper.

I have a feeling that we should be very careful about underestimating our Marie.
Both she and Joachim have stated that she can be very stubborn and certainly capable of putting her foot down. She may not be that docile after all.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Many people wish Joachim was CP but I am in the camp who doesnt.

Do you speak of people in Denmark or people on messageboards?
Because I would say there are not many people in Denmark who wish(ed) Joachim was CP, even among those who are critical towards Frederik.
(In the last ~7 years I have only once seen that opinion expressed - in the book of "royal expert" Trine Villeman - and by the reaction her book received in Dk I dare say she did not express the opinion of "many Danes". )

There was a time more than ten years ago when Joachim was married to the popular Alexandra and was perceived as a happy responsible family man (while Frederik was still searching around and changing girlfriends) when that thought came up. But IMO it had little to do with Joachim's personality or popularity but a lot with his first wife and son. And even then the thought of Joachim as CP was not very popular (e.g. Frederik was voted most popular Dane in 1999).

In terms of contradiction I'd like to add that Joachim chose different type of women at different stages of his life, first Alexandra, very self confident career woman not afraid to take on the quasi-CP role when Frederik was unmarried.

Now he is back to what suited much better from the beginning for the Men's Man that Joachim is: Marie is more the adoring wifey, no career woman before Joachim, rather dangling along on what her rich family provided, very sweet, quite naive and obviously able to balance her husbands temper.

I too find it quite interesting that he has chosen so different women. But I actually think Marie is very self-confident as well and not quite so naive (but rather someone who charmingly can talk herself out of any risky situation - as her schoolmaster put it - and you need intelligence for that). IMO Alexandra was more modern: ambitious, independent and out-spoken. Marie is more the "old-fashioned" manipulative type who gives her husband the impression he is the "man in the house" while she quietly does whatever she wants. (I am half Italian and Marie reminds me of many women in my family ).

[Duke of Marmalade]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Do you speak of people in Denmark or people on messageboards?

MBs. Joachim is often described there as regal and a character and, especially if he was still married to Alex, would be the better CP. I prefer Frederik by a mile, one reason being what Muhler described as his "folksy" attitude.

[ricarda]

I agree with you. Frederik may not be the most elegant or eloquent prince but he has the ability to emotionally connect with the (Danish) people which IMO is essential for a monarch. Joachim with all his qualities just doesn't have this ability.