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03-18-2014, 11:23 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Roskilde, Denmark
Posts: 4,357
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03-18-2014, 03:49 PM
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Commoner
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 50
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I wonder if it is at all important that no orders were apparently exchanged during this state visit. HE the president was not wearing any Danish orders and QMII were not wearing the Order of the state of the republic of Turkey. I would have thought that some sort of exchange of orders would be customary at such events.
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03-18-2014, 04:15 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dusseldorf, Germany
Posts: 819
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I wonder if political issues are discussed and addressed on such visits. Turkey goes through a very difficult time with millions of people protesting against the ruling party that Mr. Gül represents. Three young men died last week. But the government continues to use force like heavy tear gas against its predominately young people. I am sorry to say, but as a Turkish citizen, watching all this glamour and knowing at the same time that it is Mr. Gul's party and president that are massively accused of terrorizing the people, it gives these scenes in Denmark somehow a ridiculous character.
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03-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 16,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naggi
I wonder if political issues are discussed and addressed on such visits. Turkey goes through a very difficult time with millions of people protesting against the ruling party that Mr. Gül represents. Three young men died last week. But the government continues to use force like heavy tear gas against its predominately young people. I am sorry to say, but as a Turkish citizen, watching all this glamour and knowing at the same time that it is Mr. Gul's party and president that are massively accused of terrorizing the people, it gives these scenes in Denmark somehow a ridiculous character.
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Political issues are very much discussed at this visit!
I've omitted writing about them because I didn't think they would be considered interesting in this forum.
But very briefly:
Turkey would very much like to become a member of EU, claiming with considerable justification that their economy is much better than many current EU-members not to mention future EU members.
On the other hand, there is the issue of human rights in Turkey, not least within the past coupld of years. And there is the genuine danger of the Turkish military stepping in again, as they have done before since the time of Kemal Atatürk.
There are a number of conditions which needs to be adhered to in order to become a member of EU. I.e. in regards to human rights and democratic rules.
But more importantly there is a fear of pushing the balance within EU by including a country of some 70 million people.
Then there is the problems of integrating Muslim immigrants in Europe. The prospect on including a large Muslim country on top of all these problems is not considered desirable by many if not most.
So this visit is a part of a campaign of trying to gain allies to speak the Turkish interest within EU. The Danish PM have said that Denmark support Turkeys inclusion into EU - over time, sort of, but not too wholeheartedly...
As Turkey is an important NATO ally, and is located on the threshold of a volatile area, and de facto serves as a buffer for south-east Europe, USA a couple of years ago strongly advocated Turkeys admission into EU. That was aprubtly rejected, the Obama administration was basically told to take a hike. - It was made very clear that USA should stay out of that issue!
On top of that, there is the issue of the Turkish PM, Erdogan, who is representing a more shall we say traditional Muslim view. In a country that since Kemal Atatürk has stayed firmly secular. That hasn't favoured the Turkish cause in Europe either.
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03-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13,871
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It seems that Denmark is having quite a few events which gives the royals a chance to dress up in their finery. 
***
I found the menu from the gala dinner:
Dishes
- Terrine of fish from the North Sea with pumpkin flan and fennel
- Fillet of beef with carrots, potato cake and creamed mushrooms
- Cheese baked Reblochon
- Pear pavlova and pomegranate
Wine
- The Prince Cigaralle 2011
- Cuvée Royale Luxury Castle Cayx 1997 Cahors
- Special Cuvée Champagne Moët & Chandon M & M
***
And here are some extra photos (apologies for any re-posts) of the gala dinner:
One ~ Two
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03-18-2014, 04:35 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cincinnati, United States
Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown
I wonder if it is at all important that no orders were apparently exchanged during this state visit. HE the president was not wearing any Danish orders and QMII were not wearing the Order of the state of the republic of Turkey. I would have thought that some sort of exchange of orders would be customary at such events.
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It seems that fewer republics exchange orders anymore. South Korea, Russia, China, Turkey, etc no longer exchange orders (though sometimes a monarch will receive South Korea's highest order, iirc, but no one else does). I don't think it means anything, it's just the way things have gone.
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03-18-2014, 04:56 PM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,377
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It just goes to show how different lighting can affect a gown. Her Majesties gown looks green outside in the glare of flash lights and inside at the gala dinner the gown looks almost black.
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03-18-2014, 05:01 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Trekroner, Denmark
Posts: 547
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03-18-2014, 05:02 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dusseldorf, Germany
Posts: 819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler
Political issues are very much discussed at this visit!
I've omitted writing about them because I didn't think they would be considered interesting in this forum.
But very briefly:
Turkey would very much like to become a member of EU, claiming with considerable justification that their economy is much better than many current EU-members not to mention future EU members.
On the other hand, there is the issue of human rights in Turkey, not least within the past coupld of years. And there is the genuine danger of the Turkish military stepping in again, as they have done before since the time of Kemal Atatürk.
There are a number of conditions which needs to be adhered to in order to become a member of EU. I.e. in regards to human rights and democratic rules.
But more importantly there is a fear of pushing the balance within EU by including a country of some 70 million people.
Then there is the problems of integrating Muslim immigrants in Europe. The prospect on including a large Muslim country on top of all these problems is not considered desirable by many if not most.
So this visit is a part of a campaign of trying to gain allies to speak the Turkish interest within EU. The Danish PM have said that Denmark support Turkeys inclusion into EU - over time, sort of, but not too wholeheartedly...
As Turkey is an important NATO ally, and is located on the threshold of a volatile area, and de facto serves as a buffer for south-east Europe, USA a couple of years ago strongly advocated Turkeys admission into EU. That was aprubtly rejected, the Obama administration was basically told to take a hike. - It was made very clear that USA should stay out of that issue!
On top of that, there is the issue of the Turkish PM, Erdogan, who is representing a more shall we say traditional Muslim view. In a country that since Kemal Atatür has stayed firmly secular. That hasn't favoured the Turkish cause in Europe either.
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Dear Muhler, thank you for the summary, but you don't seem to be up-to-date on the current situation in Turkey. Turkey is not only seeking EU partnership since its economy is flourishing but since decades (starting from a time where the economy was very bad). There is no military left to step-in, as the current government under Erdogan/Gül has put prominent members behind bars. Turkish PM Erdogan is not only representing the traditional Muslims but he terrorizes his own people (restricting their freedom of speech, people lose their jobs when they say something against the government, women lose more and more rights). Just last week the PM called a 15-year-old boy who was killed by tear gas attack from the police a terrorist. He and his government of which Mr. Gul is a part, showed no sign of sorrow.
And I still don't understand what topics were discussed during the visit. Seeing Mary with Mrs Gül visiting a womens shelter house is hart to bear when you know that it is also Mrs Güls husbands party that do nothing against child marriage for example.
This is what I meant. Watching the glamor of this visit, it does not mirror the reality in Turkey.
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03-18-2014, 05:42 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 16,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naggi
Dear Muhler, thank you for the summary, but you don't seem to be up-to-date on the current situation in Turkey. Turkey is not only seeking EU partnership since its economy is flourishing but since decades (starting from a time where the economy was very bad). There is no military left to step-in, as the current government under Erdogan/Gül has put prominent members behind bars. Turkish PM Erdogan is not only representing the traditional Muslims but he terrorizes his own people (restricting their freedom of speech, people lose their jobs when they say something against the government, women lose more and more rights). Just last week the PM called a 15-year-old boy who was killed by tear gas attack from the police a terrorist. He and his government of which Mr. Gul is a part, showed no sign of sorrow.
And I still don't understand what topics were discussed during the visit. Seeing Mary with Mrs Gül visiting a womens shelter house is hart to bear when you know that it is also Mrs Güls husbands party that do nothing against child marriage for example.
This is what I meant. Watching the glamor of this visit, it does not mirror the reality in Turkey.
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Thank you, Naggi, for your info. 
I didn't know the political influence of the Turkish military has been that much hemmed in.
The boy who died and the protests as well as the government's reaction (calling him a terrorist IIRC) has indeed been in the papers here in DK.
The reversing of the legislation regarding underage marriages, lately now also proposed in Iraq, is indeed worrying.
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03-18-2014, 05:51 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dusseldorf, Germany
Posts: 819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler
Thank you, Naggi, for your info.
I didn't know the political influence of the Turkish military has been that much hemmed in.
The boy who died and the protests as well as the government's reaction (calling him a terrorist IIRC) has indeed been in the papers here in DK.
The reversing of the legislation regarding underage marriages, lately now also proposed in Iraq, is indeed worrying. |
I hope you don't misunderstand me, Muhler. It was not my intention to be offensive. Please forgive me. 
It was just that - as I am personally involved since family members are on the street protesting against this government - whether the political situation is a subject for discussions. I see lots of contrasts between the reality and these pictures.
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03-18-2014, 06:37 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Manteleina, Rabat, Malta
Posts: 639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown
I wonder if it is at all important that no orders were apparently exchanged during this state visit. HE the president was not wearing any Danish orders and QMII were not wearing the Order of the state of the republic of Turkey. I would have thought that some sort of exchange of orders would be customary at such events.
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that is strange especially considering that during the state visit just last year to Sweden The King was awarded the order of the state of the republic of turkey
http://www.kungahuset.se/images/200....er-scanpix.jpg
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03-18-2014, 07:13 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
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03-18-2014, 08:04 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieDenmark
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I was wondering why Princess Mary had paused for a few seconds when arriving. It happens.
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03-18-2014, 09:27 PM
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Commoner
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt
It seems that fewer republics exchange orders anymore. South Korea, Russia, China, Turkey, etc no longer exchange orders (though sometimes a monarch will receive South Korea's highest order, iirc, but no one else does). I don't think it means anything, it's just the way things have gone.
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Well I don't think that is the case here. If you look at the link below you will see that the Turkish order has been awarded quite generously.
Order of State of Republic of Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
China still awards the order of the Brilliant Jade to foreign heads of state.
Russia has tons of orders and in 1998 the old imperial order of Saint Andrew was reinstated.
Korea still awards the Grand Order of Mugunghwa, and QMII is among the recipients.
That is my point exactly! Not only did the King of Sweden receive it in 2013 - The King of Norway, The Grand Duke of Luxembourg and the president of Azerbaijan got the Turkish Order last year. As far as I can see president Gül also received very distinguised orders from Sweden, Norway, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan.
I wonder if there will be a return state visit to Turkey and orders will be exchanged there. Or maybe QMII has decided to be cautious awarding orders to foreign heads of state in order to avoid repeating the emabarrassing episode of awarding the Order of the Elephant to the former president/dictator of Romania Nicolae Ceauşescu. I am not trying to put the president Gül in the same category as Ceauşescu but to be honest he is at least by some regarded as shall we say controversial.
Anyway my point is that I find it odd that orders were not exchanged during this state visit.
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03-19-2014, 01:06 AM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler
There is of course a perfectly rational explanation for the elbows. 
Our Marie, being married to Joachim who is a perfect gentleman, would normally never do such a thing.
But, she was no doubt hiding her face from a politician who tried to establish eye contact with her. Behind the translated speech she was undoubtedly thinking: "Oh good grief! She will be going on and on and on about ecological pig-farming and what's-his-name to my left will again try his circus-French on me. This is gonna be a looong evening"! - I'm convinced that's the correct and only possible explanation.  |
Sure, Joachim is the perfect gentleman and Marie is the perfect princess.
It just so happens that he cheated on his first wife and she has her elbows on the table.
Well, as long as they know the protocol.... 
But I do appreciate your humour, Muhler, and your perfectly irrational - I mean rational - explanation.
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03-19-2014, 04:44 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Trekroner, Denmark
Posts: 547
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03-19-2014, 05:27 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 16,261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
Sure, Joachim is the perfect gentleman and Marie is the perfect princess.
It just so happens that he cheated on his first wife and she has her elbows on the table.
Well, as long as they know the protocol....
But I do appreciate your humour, Muhler, and your perfectly irrational - I mean rational - explanation. |
Thank you.
A minor protest though. I'm not so sure who cheated on who, if any, in that at the time doomed marriage.
Socialising with someone as Joachim did, or confiding intimately with another as Alexandra did, in itself does not constitute cheating in my eyes. That's friendship. Even falling in love with someone else doesn't constitute cheating, that can happen to anyone.
It's when you sleep with someone else and/or buy a second toothbrush... that it becomes cheating in my book.
ADDED: A BB video of the DRF arriving at the return dinner at the venerable Hotel D'Angleterre.
There were two women protesting the death of the fifteen year old boy in Turkey, but they were sheilded off by security. - (Removing them is a matter for the Danish police, Annelise Weimann, not Turkish security!)
It's the reporter Annelise Weimann who has been covering the visit, so we can expect a lot about dresses and less substance in the articles tomorrow.
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03-19-2014, 05:58 AM
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Heir Apparent
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