State Visit from the USA to Denmark: September 2-3, 2019 {Cancelled}

[carina_a]

Well well well, from announcement to cancellation, this state visit really sounds like a joke. It went from "I'm coming next month, receive me!" to "I'm not coming anymore!" so fast...

 

[tommy100]

I just read the Presidents tweet.
He said, I will be POSTPONING the visit. That doesn't mean an outright cancellation, never to make this visit. Postpone means putting the visit off to another time.

So hold onto the Spam tins and alert McDonalds, there could still be a visit at a later date.
However, I very much doubt it.

Can anyone tell me why Potus is going to Poland. I wonder if he will cancel that too.

Wouldn't surprise me if he finds HM and the RF a tad too busy to meet him, the Queen has a tray to cover in paper I think you'll find lol

 

[JessRulz]

A few speculative and empty posts have been removed.

 

[rob2008]

The damage to the Atlantic partnership is considerable. Beyond the formal alliance is a very positive attitude of mutual respect and friendship. The main player has acted disrespectfully and arbitrarily. I think this is how early medieval European monarchs might have carried out their 'diplomacy'. In our increasingly unstable world we all depend on a US 'monarch' who is reliable and who follows the rules-based system of international cooperation. It becomes a free for all when diplomacy is disparaged. It feels like an attack on diplomacy and on a country that helps set the standard for making a more civilised world order. Margrethe II has just about the most credibility of all leaders in the world. Her Prime Ministers have also been dignified and well regarded (but they come and go). She knows how to deal with rude people and offensive behaviour. Long may she reign.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is the second cancellation with a Royal House involved:

On August 31st 2019 several royal guests will attend the 75th Annoversary of the fiercely fought Battle of the Scheldt (the wide river delta through Zealand giving entrance to the Port of Antwerp).

The Dutch Court had already announced the invitation of the King to the President (after positive signals from the Dutch-born US Ambassador and the State Department). In the end Trump was not willing to come... Painful for the Dutch and swiftly the announcement was removed from the Dutch Royal House website.

And now this embarrassing episode with another ally, another Royal House....

 

[Kingen]

This means that H.M. The Queen will have public audiences at Christiansborg Palace after all. A good decision to spend the day on meeting people that really wants to meet you instead.

Offentlig audiens den 2. september gennemføres som tidligere planlagt | Kongehuset

 

[Tarlita]

What I find strange is that the visit was announced Before the lightbulb moment of wanting to buy Greenland. At that time the US must have thought they could have meaningful dialogue and discussions.
So just because buying Greenland is too much of a pie in the sky idea, doesn't mean that constructive discussions cannot go ahead.
Unless you are Trump and when you can't get your own way then pull out altogether.

 

[Mbruno]

I'm sure Greenland's royal family is more than pleased not to have to entertain ... someone who so grossly has offended the Greenlandic people with the obscene suggestion that they and their country are somehow for sale. After all, this was Mary's reaction to him before he had even begun to insult the country of which she too is Crown Princess

Again, just to be fair, it was not considered obscene for Russia to sell Alaska to the US in 1867, or for Denmark to sell the Virgin Islands to the same United States in 1917. That shows how perceptions have changed over the last 150 years or so.

I am pretty sure that Denmark will remain closely aligned with the US as it depends on NATO for its defense , especially with a resurgent Russia nearby.

 

[MARG]

I really feel sorry for the people of the USA because this sort of behaviour is just plain embarrassing. IS the US Ambassador a career diplomat or a Trump appointee? If he is an actual Diplomat I feel for him because he will be the poor sod responsible for cleaning up the mess, not least tendering apologies to the PM and the DRF. Mind you I think the PM and HM will respond in a sympathetic and diplomatic way.

 

[JR76]

I really feel sorry for the people of the USA because this sort of behaviour is just plain embarrassing. IS the US Ambassador a career diplomat or a Trump appointee? If he is an actual Diplomat I feel for him because he will be the poor sod responsible for cleaning up the mess, not least tendering apologies to the PM and the DRF. Mind you I think the PM and HM will respond in a sympathetic and diplomatic way.

She is a former actress, chiropractor and business woman who worked her way up the Trump administration. Before anyone scoffs at her credentials let's not forget that it's not uncommon for US presidents to pay back supporters with a diplomatic post. For instance, President Clinton famously made Pamela Harriman (former daughter-in-law to Winston Churchill) ambassador to France while President Obama made Caroline Kennedy-Schlossberg ambassador to Japan.

 

[Gawin]

I really feel sorry for the people of the USA because this sort of behaviour is just plain embarrassing.

It's like waking up and finding yourself trapped in an episode of "The Simpsons."

 

[tommy100]

Who did in fairness predict a Trump presidency lol!

Its all a really sad situation but nice to see HM is using the opportunity to reinstate the public audience that was cancelled to make way for the visit. A much better use of time IMO.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Might be wrong but, in modern times, it's an unprecedented breach of diplomacy, protocol or i would say basic politeness from a US head of States to an alied nation.

Some wars started for less than that.

Challenging times we are living in ...

If there is one thing this Administration has demonstrated to America and the world, it is that concepts like civility, reason and diplomacy have been put on hold.

Chaos and embarrassment are the new "normal".

I don't know what else to say..except that this is an inexcusable insult to Denmark, the Danish Royal Family, and its' citizens.

 

[Frelinghighness]

The State visit has now also been removed from the calender of DRF’s website:
Kongehuset | Kongehuset.dk

I think our Queen and our Crown Prince couple are quite pleased about that.

Again, just to be fair, it was not considered obscene for Russia to sell Alaska to the US in 1867, or for Denmark to sell the Virgin Islands to the same United States in 1917. That shows how perceptions have changed over the last 150 years or so.

I am pretty sure that Denmark will remain closely aligned with the US as it depends on NATO for its defense , especially with a resurgent Russia nearby.

I am afraid you are wrong in your vain effort to find a precedent for this. Greenland is a semi autonomous part of Denmark. Or as their own Pm explained, “Greenland is not Danish. Greenland belongs to Greenland. I strongly hope this is not meant seriously”.
The most insulting part of his utterance, IMO, was that stating that the Danes were carrying Greenland at too great of expense for them, “it’s hurting Denmark very badly “.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I really feel sorry for the people of the USA because this sort of behaviour is just plain embarrassing.

Thank you. Many of us in the US are appalled by such a boorish president. Our parents taught us better manners. And we matured beyond a 2 year old's behavior.

 

[Countessmeout]

Again, just to be fair, it was not considered obscene for Russia to sell Alaska to the US in 1867, or for Denmark to sell the Virgin Islands to the same United States in 1917. That shows how perceptions have changed over the last 150 years or so.

I am pretty sure that Denmark will remain closely aligned with the US as it depends on NATO for its defense , especially with a resurgent Russia nearby.

Well how many things have changed since 1867. Womens right to vote. Civil rights. Fortunately the world has progressed in 150 years. Only Trump seems to think you can still buy and sell countries. I would love to see his face if someone suggested he sell off part of the US. Maybe Queen Elizabeth suggest the Virginia islands should all be British. I am sure trump would happily sell them. Well then again maybe he would for the right price. Doubt people there would be happy.

Fortunately for Denmark the US is not the only country in NATO. But yes the alliance remains.

 

[Fijiro]

For the sake of civility, I just hope that the US Personnel informed the DRF before POTUS' twitter went out.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

For the sake of civility, I just hope that the US Personnel informed the DRF before POTUS' twitter went out.

They may not have known Trump was going to send that tweet.

 

[Minister of Court]

For the sake of civility, I just hope that the US Personnel informed the DRF before POTUS' twitter went out.

Don’t be absurd.

 

[Muhler]

Right, as predicted the comments and analysis have been pouring in.

Diplomatically this is unheard of, no less, among nations who are otherwise old friends.
According to the diplomatic protocol cancelling a state visit, for political reasons and so shortly before it was to take place, is beyond recalling the ambassador indefinitely. It is one step short of severing all diplomatic ties.
But the current US President does not act according to the established diplomatic protocol and that makes him unpredictable and as such the US policy unpredictable.
There are Danish politicians today, who would normally prefer crushing their toes with a sledgehammer, rather than not being supportive of USA, who have openly described this a "farce" and "an insult". Even the otherwise very pro-US (and pro-israel) foreign affairs spokesman for the Danish People's Party, Søren Espersen, has said that it would be better should President Trump never visit DK at all.

Asked, Lene Balleby from the DRF's press office has said: "It was a surprise" and otherwise refer to the PM's office.

The PM, Mette Frederiksen, went out an hour ago and said (also in English) that the cancellation is regrettable, but that DK is still open for discussions about the security situation in the Arctic. (Short of selling Greenland of course) And that the US-Danish relations will remain friendly.
- She has (deservedly) been praised for her subdued response. - It is not up to the PM to express annoyance and a feeling of insult, that is left to other top politicians, also very much from the otherwise very pro-US opposition.
There is a general agreement that it is by no means in Danish interests to sour the relationship even further. It will also be in Danish interests to lie low. - There is a concern that the US administration might come up with tariffs aimed at Danish goods, in retaliation for the refusal to sell Greenland. That would an act of trade-war against the whole of EU. If you impose trade sanctions on one EU country, you impose trade sanctions on the whole of EU.
So for Denmark this is about keeping calm.
- Anyway, it is very much the US diplomats who have a problem! In regards to the negotiations regarding military activity in and around Greenland, they have been kicked back to start.

The US ambassador was apparently in the dark about the cancellation. The Danish PM was informed in the middle of the night via the Danish embassy in Washington, that the visit would be cancelled, shortly before the President tweeted that fact.

But what now?

Should President Trump invite himself again, would he get invitation? (Because he will not get an invitation otherwise, that is clear.) - Perhaps. It is still in Danish interests to maintain as good a relationship with the sitting US President, no matter who it is. as possible. But it will almost certainly only be a "business-visit." - A state visit or even an official visit is pretty much out of the question.

Even hardcore advocates of strong ties with USA, are openly saying that the current US administration is, diplomatically speaking, so unpredictable and irrational that it would be dangerous to side completely with USA.
And that Europe should close ranks and increase their own security and military co-operation. That would be the final nail in the coffin for NATO.
DK has otherwise been very reluctant to join a European military alliance.
All that in view of President Trump remaining in office for another five years. (Personally there is absolutely no doubt in my mind, that should President Trump run for a second term, he will win. I have no doubts whatsoever.)

 

[MidwestMom]

Somehow, I'm not too surprised, as this President ''talks out of both sides of his mouth.'' It's probably just as well. Your PM handled it very well. Poor lady, she hasn't been in office very long and has already had to deal with Trump. Maybe he didn't want to deal with a female PM.

In one way, I'm a little sorry about this - it would have been a good way for the people of the US to be introduced to the DRF. Some of them seem to think there are no other royal families except the British one.

Actually, I was hoping that if the subject of Greenland came up with QM, she would blow smoke in his face!

 

[Muhler]

Here is a video of the US ambassador to DK, Carla sands, commenting on the cancellation: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/t...ast-som-allierede-skal-vi-kunne-diskutere-alt

She is indeed not a career diplomat, but neither was the former ambassador for the Obama administration.
The cancellation will hardly make her job easier, and this statement won't help either, I'm afraid.
She could have said something meaningless like "we are still close friends and allies, looking forward to new meetings and blah, blah..."
Instead she is basically hinting that it's PM Frederik who is to blame for this, because she rejected talking about selling Greenland, even though DK can't sell Greenland!
As the ambassador she should know that. It was her bloody job to tell her own government that inquiries regarding selling Greenland should have been directed to the Greenlanders first and foremost. "Hello, we'd like to buy you and your country..."

A foreign affairs correspondent, based in USA, said that President Trump may have been taken very much aback by the direct reply by the Danish PM.
Culturally Danes are very direct, sometimes shockingly direct, according to some foreigners. If you ask a Dane a question, expect a direct and frank answer.

BREAKING:
President Trump has just tweeted that it was indeed PM Frederiksen's reply, of the suggestion of buying Greenland being "absurd" that led him to cancel the visit.
He adds that it was impolite and inappropriate and that people should respect each other.

 

[Emmily]

Here is a video of the US ambassador to DK, Carla sands, commenting on the cancellation: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/t...ast-som-allierede-skal-vi-kunne-diskutere-alt



BREAKING:
President Trump has just tweeted that it was indeed PM Frederiksen's reply, of the suggestion of buying Greenland being "absurd" that led him to cancel the visit.
He adds that it was impolite and inappropriate and that people should respect each other.

People should respect each other, but he shows respect to no one. He could write a book on being impolite and inappropriate. Every single day he embarrasses our country and pushes our friends and allies away. He is a disgrace.

 

[Tirilschatz]

Just put a sign with "Greenland" on it on a random island nobody needs and he will be fine ^^

 

[Muhler]

Follow up.

Are you able to watch this video?

It's President Trump's comments on why he cancelled: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2019-...riksens-udtalelse-for-vaemmelig-og-ikke-paent

ADDED:
DR1 has asked former Master of Ceremonies in the DRF about what happens behind the scenes at such a state visit and what happens when it's cancelled.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/f...enborg-hoffet-havde-rygende-travlt-foer-trump
Due to the very short notice - only about a month - the employees of the court would have been recalled from holidays and burned the midnight oil at the office, preparing the multitudes of things that goes before such a visit.
There is a general manuscript that forms the basis for a state visit and that is adapted according to who is visiting and the relations to that country.
Also together with staff members of the incoming head of state.
Down to such details as placing a little leaflet at each seat at the gala dinner. In that leaflet you can read about the persons you are sitting next to. There would also be menu and a music-program.

Christian Eugen-Olsen cannot remember something similar to this cancellation during his 22 years at the court.
He is however certain QMII would have been very surprised when told.

He speculates whether there will be a letter to QMII from USA. (That is apparently customary when cancelling state visits.) Basically apologizing for not being able to make it and expressing hope they will meet soon.

-----

There are also bewilderment about the staff at the White House. It is after all the job of the staff of a head of state to avoid such - shall we call it misconceptions.
So has the staff at the White House been completely replaced by yes-men?
Or don't they dare speak up at all anymore?

As mentioned before DK is not interested in this particular pot keep boiling. An escalation could be to call the US ambassador to the Foreign Ministry to explain what on earth this is all about and to ask the ambassador to explain to her government why Greenland can't be sold. Pretty much a dressing down of the US ambassador.
But DK won't do that. There will be a lot of unofficial talks between Danish and US diplomats behind the scenes. The professional diplomats that is.
Because both Denmark as well as the US foreign service wish to put a lid on this. As someone commented: "Normally big powers try and camouflage it when they snub a small country. But President trump don't care."

So the aim is to put everything back to normal as soon as possible. If need by with another visit by President Trump, should he wish it. And even though it is clear that Danish government and Danish politicians would much prefer he never come visiting, they would nevertheless be as polite as they have to be. - But it will a pretty cold visit!

 

[Lilyflo]

I'm guessing the Queen of Denmark is quite relieved she doesn't have to entertain the "King of Israel".

 

[ladongas]

I'm guessing the Queen of Denmark is quite relieved she doesn't have to entertain the "King of Israel".

Yes, because who would have precedence?

 

[Emmily]

Follow up.

Are you able to watch this video?


-----

There are also bewilderment about the staff at the White House. It is after all the job of the staff of a head of state to avoid such - shall we call it misconceptions.
So has the staff at the White House been completely replaced by yes-men?
Or don't they dare speak up at all anymore?

Unfortunately, this is the case. He sacks anyone who pushes back.

 

[tommy100]

Ridiculous IMO for the President to speak of respect after his actions which lack basic good manners.

Out of interest, would it have been possible for him to still have come on a State Visit and not meet the Prime Minister? I know her would of course have had to meet her at state dinners etc but if his issue was that sitting down and talking about Greenland wasn't going to end his way could he still have come anyway and just not had any long and meaningful discussions? It seems that in trying to snub the PM he has actually more snubbed the Queen (Who issues the invite and was to be -formally- the host)

 

[Muhler]

And President Trump isn't done with Good ole DK yet:


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
· 26m

For the record, Denmark is only at 1.35% of GDP for NATO spending. They are a wealthy country and should be at 2%. We protect Europe and yet, only 8 of the 28 NATO countries are at the 2% mark. The United States is at a much, much higher level than that....

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump

....Because of me, these countries have agreed to pay ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS more - but still way short of what they should pay for the incredible military protection provided. Sorry!

---

Well, I will grant him that one. (The following is my personal opinion.)
The problem is of course how you count the contribution.
The 1.35 % of the DK GNP is the military expenditure alone.
Other countries include pensions to disabled veterans. Or expenses to run military hospitals.
Another country reached 2 % of it's GNP, because its GNP fell!

But yes, Denmark could and should contribute more - for example by not buying insanely expensive F35 fighters - that we are not even sure works! Cheaper alternatives might work just as well.
Traditionally we have placated US complaints by buying pretty expensive US equipment. And taking part in whatever wars USA has been involved in lately - that is another point where money (and lives) could be saved.
And DK is spending more money on defense. We have just reactivated a brigade for rapid deployment (to the Baltic) but you need to have the manpower (conscripts) core personnel I.e. NCOs and officers as well as trained specialists, not to mention equipment and barracks to put them.
Calling up 5.000 more men is no problem, equipping and training them, so that they become useful takes time. Otherwise you just have 5.000 conscripts painting stones white, to pass the time.
Ordering 30 new fighters for the US military means jobs in USA. Ordering 30 new fighters from USA is a huge expense. - See the difference?
Another thing is that USA is a global power with worldwide security interests and as such needs a larger military capability in order to do that job. While the vast majority of European countries are mainly interested in defending Europe and as such have a much more regional view of their security interests.

Okay, someone suggested in this thread that USA should leave NATO.
I agree. USA ought to leave NATO. US and European interests are becoming more and more diverse and Europe needs to be able to stand on it's own feet. It would also be better if as far as possible Europe produced its own weapons and equipment. Create jobs in Europe instead.
Few are concerned about Russia. Good grief. Russian hasn't got the economic power to embark in a major war, let alone the capabilities of invading Europe. And why on earth should they? It would be the equivalent of killing the chickens in order to get to the eggs they are sitting on.
There will of course be a long term price for USA in leaving NATO. - There will be very few bases left in Europe after a number of years and a much more reluctant Europe willing to side with USA in future conflicts.

- That was of course a political sidestep by me.

I don't know how long this thread will remain open. Unless something very dramatic happens, this will soon be yesterdays news and forgotten next month.

I said in the beginning of this thread that I looked very much forward to this visit. Being a behind-the-scenes-geek and a nerd in regards to politics, this has surpassed even my wildest expectations!