Relationships between the Members of the Danish Royal Family

[Lumutqueen]

Yes. I believe the party girl from Hobart did indeed learn a lot from the classy Marie and I dont think of Joachim as a snob - IMO he believes his brother could have done a lot better.

How considering Mary became the Crown Princess 4 years before Marie was even on the marriage scene?

What do you base that on? I'm a little puzzled since Mary entered the public glare in earnest in 2004 and our Marie only came about four years later. By which time Mary's position was very much established.

Well said M.

Amusing, quite amusing, but it doesn't take long before the agenda's of certain members becomes apparent. It's just funny that they think no one notices

This made my morning.

Dont know what you mean here. My only "agenda" is to express my opinion and MY OPINION is that Pss. Marie is way more classy and elegant than Pss. I cannot understand why some people get so narked when everyone doesn't agree with them.

a lot of posters are extremely defensive when anything even remotely negative is said about Mary. I wonder why this is ?

Well I get defensive whens something negative is mentioned when I don't agree with it or there is no basis for the statment.
I can except that you don't like Mary from what it seems, but I can't except the things you say that "Mary has learnt from Marie" when IMO it's the other way round.

And people get defensive because they like Mary.

 

[Aotearoagal]

I agree it appears that Marie has got the easier life of the two.

I totally agree. Provided Marie has made the switch from a transatlantic life to a settled farm life in Denmark, she really has an amazing life ahead of her: her baby Henrik is just beautiful, her husband appears to have really settled down with her, and what we've seen of their house - and the nearby church - is relaxed and unpretentious. Marie shares her nationality with her father-in-law, who appears to be chuffed to have a French ally in the family! While Mary is very pretty and photogenic while still young, I think Marie may have the face & bone structure that ages more gently and beautifully of the two of them. Seriously, if I had to nominate which princess I envy, it would definitely be Marie rather than Mary. In fact, now I feel a tinge of green! I think Mary has a very tough gig - more power to her arm! - and Marie a far, far easier one.

 

[Terri Terri]

I think that CP Mary and Princess Marie are perfect for their respective roles in the DRF. They have the personalities and characteristics that are serving them well as Crown Princess and Princess of Denmark respectively. Most importantly, their husbands are happy with the women they have chosen...and that only bodes well for the the Danish Royal Family.

 

[nwinther]

I think the problem with so-called negative expressions of opinion is that they come off simply as envy and/or maliciousness.

Marie is said by someone to (quoted freely) "live a life in private luxury on other peoples expence". That comes off, not as a truth, but as sheer envy. One might feel obliged to ask, how Marie, in her current situation, can avoid living on "other peoples expence" lest she divorce her husband. While she may be freed from any hard manual labour or a stressfull office-life, she nevertheless have to live the rest of her natural life under close scrutiny and put up an appearance and also a happy face in a large number of instances while having numerous rights and options permanently removed (de facto, anyways).

And that Mary is supposedly a "party-girl from Hobart" also comes off awfully malicious. She sure married a party-prince, but even that seems to have blown over - not increased, as one would expect. And that she should "love the attention and limelight" - I find that a cocksure statement, indicating conceitedness and vanity on the CPs part. So she's not Howard Hughes. I wonder what she'd be called if she refused the public (attention). IMO she's done a fantastic job raising positive attention from the world towards Denmark. She's not out there pulling "Britney'es" or anything. In fact, if she really is so attracted to the limelight, she sure hides it well.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on obvious and unfounded negative statements on any royal - and on most people, when it comes to it. Especially people in a peculiar or difficult situation.

 

[Madame Royale]

I think the problem with so-called negative expressions of opinion is that they come off simply as envy and/or maliciousness.

Marie is said by someone to (quoted freely) "live a life in private luxury on other peoples expence". That comes off, not as a truth, but as sheer envy. One might feel obliged to ask, how Marie, in her current situation, can avoid living on "other peoples expence" lest she divorce her husband. While she may be freed from any hard manual labour or a stressfull office-life, she nevertheless have to live the rest of her natural life under close scrutiny and put up an appearance and also a happy face in a large number of instances while having numerous rights and options permanently removed (de facto, anyways).

And that Mary is supposedly a "party-girl from Hobart" also comes off awfully malicious. She sure married a party-prince, but even that seems to have blown over - not increased, as one would expect. And that she should "love the attention and limelight" - I find that a cocksure statement, indicating conceitedness and vanity on the CPs part. So she's not Howard Hughes. I wonder what she'd be called if she refused the public (attention). IMO she's done a fantastic job raising positive attention from the world towards Denmark. She's not out there pulling "Britney'es" or anything. In fact, if she really is so attracted to the limelight, she sure hides it well.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on obvious and unfounded negative statements on any royal - and on most people, when it comes to it. Especially people in a peculiar or difficult situation.

Thanks for your views, nwinther It's good of you to share them here with us.

 

[Sternchen]

I think the problem with so-called negative expressions of opinion is that they come off simply as envy and/or maliciousness.

Marie is said by someone to (quoted freely) "live a life in private luxury on other peoples expence". That comes off, not as a truth, but as sheer envy. One might feel obliged to ask, how Marie, in her current situation, can avoid living on "other peoples expence" lest she divorce her husband. While she may be freed from any hard manual labour or a stressfull office-life, she nevertheless have to live the rest of her natural life under close scrutiny and put up an appearance and also a happy face in a large number of instances while having numerous rights and options permanently removed (de facto, anyways).

And that Mary is supposedly a "party-girl from Hobart" also comes off awfully malicious. She sure married a party-prince, but even that seems to have blown over - not increased, as one would expect. And that she should "love the attention and limelight" - I find that a cocksure statement, indicating conceitedness and vanity on the CPs part. So she's not Howard Hughes. I wonder what she'd be called if she refused the public (attention). IMO she's done a fantastic job raising positive attention from the world towards Denmark. She's not out there pulling "Britney'es" or anything. In fact, if she really is so attracted to the limelight, she sure hides it well.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on obvious and unfounded negative statements on any royal - and on most people, when it comes to it. Especially people in a peculiar or difficult situation.

I think your post is very well written and perfectly understandable. You really voiced your opinion very eloquent
I am looking forward to read more of you

 

[justcurious]

I agree - I assume that a relation between Mary and Alexandra (if she was still Joachims wife) would certainly be strained, not only because Alex was kind of a CP before Mary came along but also because she is a very ambitious woman, even after her divorce she still keeps some of her patronages.

I have to disagree. I think Alexandra might have helped Mary in a few areas before they got married. She had the chance to know her for the couple of years Mary and Frederik dated before their wedding. Nothing I've seen from either woman to suggest they would be strained. In fact, at Mary and Fred's wedding, I could've sworn it was Amber Petty (CP Mary's bff) and Alex engrossed in their own conversation which had both of them laughing in hysterics, although Alex being a Princess at the time, realised she was and tried to constrain herself at the end!
If anything, I think Alex and Mary would be alot closer as friends than she would be to Marie. Not because of anything bad but it seems to me Mary and Alex share more common interests and tastes.
I think all 3 woman get along as best as any three women in their situation can.

Her life is so much different from Marys, dutywise, spotlightwise and characterwise. There is no reason at all to envy each other since each woman got what they were after, Mary the fame and the attention and Marie the privileged life on other peoples expenses.

I think that was kinda harsh too. There really doesn't have to be an agenda when a person in a priviledged position marries someone that is not. The titles is part of the package. Both CP M&F and J&M seem to be in love, so it is obvious to me they married for love.

 

[Benedikte]

I agree with you Justcurious.

I have seen pictures from the press where Alexandra and CP Mary are very happy being together.

Billed-Bladet - Mary og Alex' kærlige kindkys

And here celebrating the birthday of nobleman Johan Wedell-Wedellsborg

Kronprinsparret festede med Alex og Martin - TV 2 Vip

And I do agree with you that they have the same background.

They both have proven themselves through a career and using their full potentiel.

They have not been spending their lives waiting for a husbond. No stepford wifes

 

[Kataryn]

Both Marie and Mary did interviews before their weddings and both showed that they knew what they were getting into. And that both needed quite some time to accept the circumstances of getting married to a prince. It was not that one of them appeared overly happy and delighted of becoming a person of highlighted public interest. They both told how they are trying to handle this side of their love marriages and both appeared to be honest and sincere in their wish to pay the prize for their love of their respective husbands.

I recall a scene in a TV documentary about Marie when she took the train to Denmark and she looks out into the countryside and you could see that she really pondered that as a problem instead of being just happy to have made such a catch on the marriage mart and looking forward to a life of idle privilege.

So for me both ladies were aware that there would be a prize to pay for their prnces and both decided that her man is worth it.

 

[Sternchen]

Hm, I don't remember that Mary did any interviews prior to her engagement. I know that Anna Johannesen (spell?) said, when they found Mary in Australia Mary was very surprised that BB had found her, and was polite but firm in her no comment.
After the engagement she did the Interview with Ninka and the Documentary about her was done.

IIRC Marie gave quiet a few (impromptu?) interviews to Danish magazines, and also posed for pictures in her appartment.

I think the scene in the documentary was while Marie was on her way to the swiss ski-area where she would meet Joachim and the boys.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The only interview I saw Mary do, is that 11 parter that has been put up on Youtube, the one where she's in Australia and in Denmark.
I agree with Strenchen about the comments made by Anna Johannesen.

 

[Benedikte]

I agree with Sternchen too

 

[Sternchen]

The only interview I saw Mary do, is that 11 parter that has been put up on Youtube, the one where she's in Australia and in Denmark.

That's the one I was talking about It was done by the company owned by Martins father

 

[Kataryn]

Hm, I don't remember that Mary did any interviews prior to her engagement.

I thnk you missunderstood me, Sternchen. I wrote they did the interviews before their respective wedding, not engagement.

Sometimes I wonder about the friendship of the two Mar(y or ie)s of the DRF.
I seem to recall that Mary in one of her early interviews said that she chose to go to Paris (and not London, even though at that time she had a British passport as well as an Australian) because of Frederick's connections in Paris.
Which was plausbile because Frederick is half-French with his father having friends and relatives in Paris and France.

We know that Marie, with her Parisian based father who came from the same area than Prince Henrik, met with Joachim in Denmark on being invited by Danish friends of her.

That sounds to me a bit as if Marie was part of the Parisian circle of trusted friends of Frederick and Joachim and might have helped Mary with settling in in. This would explain as well why she was so friendly with Alexandra, I think. For I seriously doubt she had anything actively to do with the break-up of Joachim's first marriage. But it is sometimes a relief to see your former spouse turned friend happily settled with a new partner you can like. especially when there are children involved.

That Parisian connection would explain why the sometimes aloof appearing Mary was so fast in warming to Marie when Marie came to Denmark. You can see in a lot of videos of them together that Mary really likes her sister-in-law and vice versa. I even recall a grey dress of Mary's which same design Marie later wore in a violet shade... I wouldn't put it beyond them to have the dress recoloured..

Just an idea. Maybe we get a book about Mary one day which tells a bit more about those Parisian days shrouded in secret. And maybe we'll find out a bit more about Joachim's and Marie's early days when she was just a member of his circle but not yet his girlfriend as he was still married.

 

[sgl]

That's an interesting thought Kataryn. I've wondered about Mary's time in Paris too. There hasn't been a lot of info about that time (and to my knowledge, no pictures have surfaced). What year did Marie meet Joachim?

 

[Kataryn]

That's an interesting thought Kataryn. I've wondered about Mary's time in Paris too. There hasn't been a lot of info about that time (and to my knowledge, no pictures have surfaced). What year did Marie meet Joachim?

I'm not sure but it was at a time when Prince Felix was a very small infant and Joachim still married to Alexandra without any hints to a future divorce. Around 2002?

 

[sgl]

Is that the same year Marie returned to Europe?

 

[Benedikte]

That's an interesting thought Kataryn. I've wondered about Mary's time in Paris too. There hasn't been a lot of info about that time (and to my knowledge, no pictures have surfaced). What year did Marie meet Joachim?

Marie met Joachim 2 months after Alexandra gave birth to Felix.

And apparently they kept in touch at least 2 times.

Danish Royal Watchers

 

[Sternchen]

That sounds to me a bit as if Marie was part of the Parisian circle of trusted friends of Frederick and Joachim and might have helped Mary with settling in in.

I thought that Mary didn't spend more than 6 months in Paris, and was in Denmark quiet often during that period?
AFAIK, Joachim and Marie both declared, that they met once at a hunt when Joachim and Alexandra were still together, but didn't keep in contact. And that they met again at a hunt, when Joachim and Alexandra were already divorced (or was it "just" separated?) and they still didn't keep in contact until Joachim contacted her while he was in Paris.

I don't think Marie belonged to Fred's circle of friends, I understood it more like Joachim and Marie had some mutual friends/aquaintances (spell?) that invited both of them to hunts. Mary was often seen with friends from Fred like Birgitte Handwerk nee Zachau, Julie Mølsgaard (Fred's friend from Krebs), Rose Gad, Caroline Heering, Ellen Hillingsø and others

But I will check the Ninka-Book, as I don't remember if the time in Paris was mentioned, I also don't remember if the time in Paris was more than mentioned in the Redder/Palshoj-Book?
Perhaps Muhler can check, if Fred said something about it in the Redder/Palshoj-Book for his 40th Birthday?

Is that the same year Marie returned to Europe?

I think Marie returned to Europe shortly after September 11th. Didn't she say something, that she was having trouble getting a new work-visa?

 

[Benedikte]

Is that the same year Marie returned to Europe?

As I recall Marie returned after 9/11 2001 because USA became more restrictive about people staying in USA. Perhaps she was lacking a green card or what ever...

 

[Kataryn]

Marie met Joachim 2 months after Alexandra gave birth to Felix.

And apparently they kept in touch at least 2 times.

Danish Royal Watchers

Uugh, that sounds bad, reminds one of the Diana/Camilla/Charles-triangle...

No, trying to read between the lines of the interview they gave, it really sounds a bit foggy when it comes to when, where and what was in the beginning of their relationship.

But that is put into perspective, IMHO, when you see how not only cordial but friendly Alexandra reacts to Marie and how A&M and J&M attend events together in a positive mood. That, especially if you watch video coverage and not only still pics, is evident and seems to be more than the successful trial to do right for the kids.

I see Alexandra as a very controlled but still very emotional and strong woman and I doubt she would be willing to act as if she liked Marie when Marie in fact played some role in the divorce. She was strong enough to divorce a prince and to marry a man younger than her, so why should she react that way if her feelings are not genuine?

 

[Zonk]

Let's not get off track talking about the dates regarding the end of one marriage and the beginnings of another. Its all speculative and we have nothing definitive.

What we do know is that Alexandra and Joachim have managed to remain mature and courteous despite their divorce. Marie and Martin appear to have blended into the family with ease. What matters is that all four adults keep the interest of the boys as their top priority. And this is what it should be.

 

[Benedikte]

Ekstra Bladet - Prinsesse Marie: Mary hjalp mig med at falde til

It's [not] easy to go from a life as a mortal Frenchman to suddenly be the princess of Denmark. That Princess Marie had to realise when she arrived to Denmark to be married with the royal peasant husband, Prince Joachim. In an interview with Image magazine Marie explains that she sought help from Princess Mary when she should get settled in the kingdom.

- There was so much to fall into place for me and at first it was very stressful. Here was Mary a great help to me, "says the handsome Frenchman, who also got help from Prince Joachim. But there were still some things the racers peasant could not help.

- Of course it is first and foremost, Joachim, who is the great support for me, but he grew up with his task, and therefore there are things that the Crown Princess better understand, "said Princess Marie.

Intensive Danish course
As politicians prescribes it is important to learn Danish in a hurry to get on in the Danish society. And it applies even if you have stepped into the royal family. This is precisely why Princess Marie and Prince Joachim strict rules for when to speak Danish and French.

- I've asked Joachim that he speak Danish to me until at. 19.00. The rest of the evening, I so need to relax a little, and so we change to French, says Princess Marie to Billedbladet.

 

[Sternchen]

I think that Alexandra is really a very strong and controlled woman Which I don't necessarily regard as a bad thing
But in the end of their marriage, after the divorce, and also after the remarriage, there was only one instance, where I saw as much as a crack, when she looked quiet annoyed, and that was at Felix first day at Krebs in August 2008.
Joachim and the photographers have been waiting at the school for a while when Alexandra and Martin arrived quiet late with Felix, and Alexandra looked annoyed. I guess they were delayed by traffic. But it was the only time I remember, where you could see an annoyed Alexandra.

 

[Viv]

And maybe we'll find out a bit more about Joachim's and Marie's early days when she was just a member of his circle but not yet his girlfriend as he was still married.

I remember reading something about Joachim and Marie meeting at a dinner party organised by 'friends' - could be 2002 or 2003; they had a cosy conversation and exchanged phono numbers. The contact was reactivated after the separation. I'm not convinced this is the whole truth and nothing but, but it's basically none of our business and I suppose the official version will have to do !

Viv

 

[Sternchen]

Hm, so Marie moved to Paris somewhen in 2002, and according to "Mary, Crown Princess of Denmark" by Palshoj/Redder, Mary had lived in Denmark for 18 months by October 2003 (Page 45) which would mean, that she moved to Denmark in April 2002.

 

[Benedikte]

I remember reading something about Joachim and Marie meeting at a dinner party organised by 'friends' - could be 2002 or 2003; they had a cosy conversation and exchanged phono numbers. The contact was reactivated after the separation. I'm not convinced this is the whole truth and nothing but, but it's basically none of our business and I suppose the official version will have to do !

Viv

I agree.

And according to Joachim and Marie they actually was in contact once or twice after 2002 and before the separation.

Danish Royal Watchers

 

[Sternchen]

I agree.

And according to Joachim and Marie they actually was in contact once or twice after 2002 and before the separation.

Danish Royal Watchers

If Joachim and Marie only met in October 2002 then it is (IMO) highly unlikely that Mary and Marie were friends in Paris before.

 

[Benedikte]

If Joachim and Marie only met in October 2002 then it is (IMO) highly unlikely that Mary and Marie were friends in Paris before.

I do agree.

 

[iceflower]

_______________


Obviously at this time and without concrete information it's impossible to clarify
certain facts about the Princesses' time in Paris and it's highly speculative to
talk about dates and personal backgrounds of the divorce years ago, so let us
please move on now!