New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[Muhler]

But if Joachim has been in on this since almost 5 months ago, why would he be wondering what's going on or be hopping mad or something like that?
Why would he not have told his wife? Or prepared his oldest?
Unless you mean the timing of the press release?

My argument was about whether QMII had ordered this statement issued and signed the papers stripping Joachim's children of their titles, but without informing anyone in family first. - In which case Joachim would of course look like one big question mark.

I've seen many comments this evening and basically the combined Danish press knows just as little as we do.

Your or my ideas are just as good as anyone's at this stage.

A number of theories are popping up in my mind:

A) The family has discussed this for a period and more or less reluctantly agreed that this is the way to go. Joachim's children will lose their titles.
Alexandra does not agree and she is having a public fit. - Embarrassing the DRF - and herself.
Otherwise this would just have been a standard announcement about a major but predictable (and in the long term wise IMO) change in the family.
Any disappointment and anger would have been kept within the family.

B) A major as in huge communication blunder within the family has taken place. QMII made her decision and assumed someone (whoever that would be) informed Joachim etc before the press release.
And the employees at court thought QMII would inform her family herself and went ahead.

C) This issue has been debated within the family for a while and this morning QMII woke up and decided to cut through. Signed the papers and issued the statement. Without telling her family. - That sounds thoughtless to a fault. And quite uncharacteristic of QMII.

D) This issue has been hotly debated within the family! And QMII decided - for reasons we can only speculate about - to cut through and make an executive decision. She will be taking the heat within the family, leaving M&F out of it.
That's the soon to abdicate-option. Alternatively: Expect to die any moment-option.

E) Joachim and his family has been sacked. And this is just confirming that fact.
A very ruthless and quite humiliating decision and quite out of character.

F) Someone forced QMII to make a decision now. We can speculate as to why it absolutely had to happen now. The only ones with enough weight to do that would be M&F.
I can't really see any obvious reason for doing that and in this manner. Not least since Frederik can do it five minutes after becoming king anyway.
But it's an option.

G) QMII is in the earlier stages of dementia. And while being perfectly able to perform and make sound decisions there will be times when these decision will appear erratic or where the consequences of a decision is not thought through. I.e. the connection between action and consequence is beginning to slip.
Normally such things should be picked up by the court employees - that their job. But this is a family matter. So the safety net may not have been rolled out.
So in this scenario QMII made a decision, that is indeed perfectly sound - she just omitted letting her family in on it.

H) This issue has been mentioned en passant within the family a few times and for whatever reason QMII has been under the impression that the family was OK with what she meant to be an upcoming decision Joachim in particular could reflect upon.
While Joachim etc. thought this was the beginning of a debate within the family about the future of his children's status.
In other words: Another major communications glitch within the family.

I) - Your idea.

- That's what I can come up with right now.

 

[polyesco]

I'm waiting for a statement from Joachim. If he is angry too then lets hear it. I don't like that Alexandra is taking the bad rap in all this.
Alexandra has been treated very well by the Queen, even recently being invited to the 50th jubilee. Maybe some of this declarations can be said in private and not for the press to jump on.

A difficult decision but correct one for the Queen to make and not just wait for Frederik to deal with.
https://www.berlingske.dk/ledere/be...-medlemmer-staar-foran-en-vigtig-og-vanskelig
"- It is the Queen's fate and duty to make decisions that may hurt the family member, but which puts the crown before everything else, she writes and praises the Queen not only for 'timely care' but also for taking responsibility:
- The Queen takes the decision now, so that Crown Prince Frederik is free from it on the day he is to take over the crown."

 

[Saragli]

The opinion of the expert of the royal house Jakob Steen Olsen who advises Queen Margrethe II to resolve the crisis in the family.
The expert also recalls the time when Prince Knud lost the right to inherit the throne in 1953, which caused long wounds in the royal family, says the expert.

https://www.seoghoer.dk/kongelige/ekspert-margrethe-skal-loese-krisen-nu

Thank you for this link Blog Real. This is another thing that makes the way this has been handled all the more frustrating. Denmark and Sweden has a long history of family members being stripped of their titles and the bitterness that ensued. Sweden seemed to have learned from this past and in handling their slimming down. Denmark seems to have not have.

The slimming down is appropriate and I support HM in her decisions. But the PR of this is astonishingly bad - mostly with the Alexandra's reaction and the silence from Joachim.

 

[Erin9]

New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022

Thank you Muhler for putting forth various theories on what could be happening here and being brave enough to include even ones that are difficult to entertain but in the REAL world, they must be in the realm of consideration. Because, frankly, the handling of this makes no sense. And I am not going to be so quick as to just blame the communications department...they take orders presumably from the boss, right? So, under whose authorization was the statement published? Was there confusion as to who knew what when and who had been told what? The directive to publish that statement still came from the top...or are courtiers/chiefs of staff making decisions on their own without consulting QMII? IF so, why?



But I will say that the communications department needs to be overhauled sooner rather than later. However, maybe other things need to be overhauled sooner rather than later as well.



BB is all over this and I will assume BT is not far behind with their "analysis".



Lots of questions as to why this was handled the way it was and the timing, reasoning behind it and how was this statement signed off like this. Was it published too early? Did QMII say to publish it and no one had informed the people affected....which said act of informing SHOULD have been done personally by QMII in this situation. If it wasn't...who dropped the ball...was it assumed SOMEONE else would let people know?



So again it goes back to who is running the show, who should be runing the show, who needs to run the show and where does the buck stop.

This is what I’m thinking too: if you’re going to strip your grandchildren of their titles- shouldn’t you be telling them that yourself? Was this not done? Did it get “staffed out”? And then not done?

Or was it the timing of the press release that caught everyone off guard? Doesn’t really read like that so far though.

Or was this discussed as a maybe- and no one bothered to say it was a definite thing?

It sure seems like before something like this is released there needs to be absolute certainty that everyone who needs to know is aware of what is happening and when it is happening. That doesn’t appear to be the case.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

That is true, but, optics matter. Removing the "Prince/ss of Denmark" title from a branch of the family closer to the monarch and not from a more distant branch doesn't look good. As I said before, it would also improve the optics of it looking like a targeted move against just Joachim's family.

But it still wouldn’t have that effect because the Queen like King Charles only has two children (sons) and I doubt most people are thinking of the Greek royals in this matter. The Greek royals don’t live in Denmark and occasionally visit so it really is of no consequence. But in some sense I get what you are saying in one way about not it not seeming hurtful and targeted.

 

[Mbruno]

I don't agree that Nikolai's career necessarily played a factor in this. He gave every appearance of working with QMII's full permission and being very conscious of his status and respectful of the monarchy. He is not Märtha Louise.

If QMII had had some issue with it, she would have said no, and Nikolai would have worked under a mononym or a professional name. Simple.

I think his career is an adjacent factor, at best.

We cannot know that for sure, but the fact that Nikolai openly uses his title as part of his commercial brand, and that Felix is also modeling now and might do the same in the future, must have raised some eyebrows in the Court, and may have accelerated the decision.


It is commendable, however, that Queen Margrethe II made the decision while she is still reigning rather than shifting that burden to Frederik.

My argument was about whether QMII had ordered this statement issued and signed the papers stripping Joachim's children of their titles, but without informing anyone in family first. - In which case Joachim would of course look like one big question mark.

If I may ask, I am actually interested in the mechanics of how titles are bestowed or removed in Denmark. In the UK, the King normally signs and seals Letters Patent. In Spain, Belgium, or the Netherlands, the King issues a Royal Decree countersigned by a government minister. What does Queen Margrether actually sign in Denmark in those cases? Or does it suffice for the Queen simply to state her will and pleasure verbally?


I remember reading for example that, when the Queen created Prince Henrik's male-line descendants Counts of Monpezat, there were no Letters Patent or equivalent issued. Is that correct?

I just can't shake off that they missed a big opportunity in removing the Danish titles from the Greek RF. It's hard to justify removing the burden of the title of Prince from her grandkids while allowing numerous other Prince/ss of Denmark living their best lives around the world with no duty or expectations to the Kingdom. It would also make it seem like less of a hit job on Joachim's family. Also, demoting Christians siblings to HH would make sure that all branches of the DRK have been affected by the Queens decision.

Technically the Greeks already have a different title of "Prins af Danmark" rather than "Prins til Danmark" since they are not in the line of succession.

 

[Princess B]

A slimmed down monarchy is great, but I would have preferred them going the Swedish way and just taking away the HRH/HH from them.
I especially feel for Nikolai and Felix who’ve grown up with the title of Prince and it’s just taken away.
Not a fan of things done retroactively, unless the children and very small and don’t understand (like the Sussex kids or even the Swedish children).

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is not at all "a PR mess" . The Queen has used her royal prerogative to organize her own House. And a former member of said House whom herself holds a totally unnecessary noble title because the same royal prerogative (!) ran to the media to voice her displeasure "for her boys".

It just exposes Ms Manley on the same nitwit level as her "colleague" Ms Markle when it is about royal and noble titles.

 

[JR76]

A slimmed down monarchy is great, but I would have preferred them going the Swedish way and just taking away the HRH/HH from them.
I especially feel for Nikolai and Felix who’ve grown up with the title of Prince and it’s just taken away.
Not a fan of things done retroactively, unless the children and very small and don’t understand (like the Sussex kids or even the Swedish children).

As a Swede i would much have preferred the Danish way. At least the three Monpezat boys have titles that they can leave to their children something that the three Bernadotte boys doesn't have.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

A slimmed down monarchy is great, but I would have preferred them going the Swedish way and just taking away the HRH/HH from them.
I especially feel for Nikolai and Felix who’ve grown up with the title of Prince and it’s just taken away.
Not a fan of things done retroactively, unless the children and very small and don’t understand (like the Sussex kids or even the Swedish children).

I prefer the Danish and Dutch way. The traditional Bernadotte procreation in the legal male agnate lineage is with Prince Carl Philip and his descendants will not be able to be known with any title, while the children of Mr Westling are now known with the name "Bernadotte".

This causes that the straight and dynastic male royal line of Carl Philip will become without title while other Bernadottes have a noble title (counts and countesses Bernadotte af Wisborg) and "Westling-kown-as-Bernadotte" will hold royal titles.

No, the Danish and Dutch arrangement to create hereditary titles of nobility for junior cadets is the most elegant and courteous solution to slim down the Royal House.

 

[Muhler]

If I may ask, I am actually interested in the mechanics of how titles are bestowed or removed in Denmark. In the UK, the King normally signs and seals Letters Patent. In Spain, Belgium, or the Netherlands, the King issues a Royal Decree countersigned by a government minister. What does Queen Margrether actually sign in Denmark in those cases? Or does it suffice for the Queen simply to state her will and pleasure verbally?


I remember reading for example that, when the Queen created Prince Henrik's male-line descendants Counts of Monpezat, there were no Letters Patent or equivalent issued. Is that correct?

This is admittedly not what I know most about. So anyone please correct me.

QMII certainly has to sign a paper stripping or granting a title. Nowadays that's almost exclusively done within the extended family.

The title of Count of Monpezat was granted to PH and his descendants as a nod to his family, because they used that title, but they held no land, there was no fief. In other words it was a disused title in name only.
So Count of Monpezet is a Danish title, not a French title.
BTW that also means Athena will not be Countess, but Komtesse of Monpezat until she marries, after which she will lose her title altogether or take her husband's title, if he has one. - Unless the monarch give her a personal title, that cannot be inherited. Just like Alexandra's title.

But what exactly the document is called (which will be stored in the National Archive) and what the specific procedure is I don't know off hand.
However it is an option the monarch has exclusively. - Not the government, not the Parliament. The monarch.

In theory the monarch could make me Count of Jutland, but apart from the title there would be no privileges at all.
There are actually quite a few counts and barons in DK, most of them never having lived anywhere near a manor. So they never use the title.

 

[Izzie]

This is what I’m thinking too: if you’re going to strip your grandchildren of their titles- shouldn’t you be telling them that yourself? Was this not done? Did it get “staffed out”? And then not done?

Or was it the timing of the press release that caught everyone off guard? Doesn’t really read like that so far though.

Or was this discussed as a maybe- and no one bothered to say it was a definite thing?

It sure seems like before something like this is released there needs to be absolute certainty that everyone who needs to know is aware of what is happening and when it is happening. That doesn’t appear to be the case.

And I am sorry...I don't buy the this is for the best...put crown before family feelings, etc. There are much better ways to handle things like this.

Plus, IMO, this SUCKS for Joachim's kids to strip them retroactively! It would have been best (and no one would have batted an eye) if the statement had said that while Joachim's kids would retain their titles, any and all their descendants would ONLY carry the tile of Count/countess of Monpezat. DONE. But to strip her own grandchildren..in what seems like (to date) such a callous/cold move is ridiculous. Just because something may be "For the best" doesn't mean it has to be done in what seems like such a detached manner. That statement is the equivalent of "too bad, so sad".

IF there was no proper communication of this and everyone was NOT on the same page, then I can understand the feelings of shock and hurt coming from those affected by this move. Alexandra has usually seemed pretty respectful in terms of making statements (that I can tell) and she's always shown discretion...it sounds like she went into auto-pilot mama bear mode on behalf of her two sons.

You don't strip your grandchildren of titles like this, especially ones that have done absolutely nothing wrong. Sorry, it looks callous and heartless to me. It seems totally unnecessary to do this retroactively at this point instead of just having it be something going forward. Actually, it looks spiteful.

There is a total disconnect between action and consequences here.

 

[Mbruno]

I prefer the Danish and Dutch way. The traditional Bernadotte procreation in the legal male agnate lineage is with Prince Carl Philip and his descendants will not be able to be known with any title, while the children of Mr Westling are now known with the name "Bernadotte".

This causes that the straight and dynastic male royal line of Carl Philip will become without title while other Bernadottes have a noble title (counts and countesses Bernadotte af Wisborg) and "Westling-kown-as-Bernadotte" will hold royal titles.

No, the Danish and Dutch arrangement to create hereditary titles of nobility for junior cadets is the most elegant and courteous solution to slim down the Royal House.

There is nothing King Carl Gustaf can do in that respect though. The Swedish Instrument of Government of 1974 does not empower him to create hereditary nobility anymore. At most , he is allowed to give life duchies to princes of the Royal House, which was explicitly possible also in the previous Instrument of Government, but is now still accepted as an unwritten prerogative of the King.

Note that, whether the King chooses to call his grandchildren HRH Prince/Princess or not, which is his prerogative, anyone in the line of succession remains a "prince pr princess of the Royal House" in the sense of the Act of Succession and other instruments of Swedish public law. That is why Carl Gustaf's grandchildren can still be legally Knights/Members of the Order of the Seraphim, can legally bear a personal coat of arms which is a differenced version of the Grand Coat of Arms of Sweden, and, contrary to what the Court implied in 2019, are still subject to all the restrictions in the Act of Succession, including the need for consent of the government granted upon request by the King to get married, or else they and their descendants forefeit their succession rights. At least that was the interpretation of the Constitutional Committee of the Swedish Parliament as far as I understand it.

 

[Viv]

….she knows very well how Joachim still hasn't got a clue what he wants with his life and he's 53 years old. She doesn't want that to happen to his children too.

Now, I don’t agree; Prince Joachim, IMO has always been a dutiful
member of the RF, but maybe he faced difficulties forging out a role
for himself, as he himself indicated some time ago.
His parents probably thought they arted in his best interests back
in the 1970s, when they arranged for his inheritance of
Schackenborg castle
near the Danish- German border. Maybe they envisioned that he would
lead a comfortable life as a landowner and take on patronages etc
in a part of the country, which has always been very loyal to the RF.
Joachim was very young when this happened ( 9 or 10 years old), and
never had a rat’s chance to have his say.
As it appeared later on, a career in farming would not have been his
first choice, but nevertheless he took on Schackenborg and educated himself accordingly..
Many years later he gave up and sold the castle.
His interests appears to have been the military, and he had several
jobs in the Defence establishments, before he became defence attaché
at our embassy in Paris.
As for his two older sons however: I’m not completely convinced that using their
titles in connection with modelling jobs would have been met with enthusiasm
at the royal court ….

 

[Muhler]

I'm waiting for a statement from Joachim. If he is angry too then lets hear it. I don't like that Alexandra is taking the bad rap in all this.
Alexandra has been treated very well by the Queen, even recently being invited to the 50th jubilee. Maybe some of this declarations can be said in private and not for the press to jump on.

A difficult decision but correct one for the Queen to make and not just wait for Frederik to deal with.
https://www.berlingske.dk/ledere/be...-medlemmer-staar-foran-en-vigtig-og-vanskelig
"- It is the Queen's fate and duty to make decisions that may hurt the family member, but which puts the crown before everything else, she writes and praises the Queen not only for 'timely care' but also for taking responsibility:
- The Queen takes the decision now, so that Crown Prince Frederik is free from it on the day he is to take over the crown."

Indeed.

If Alexandra has gone rogue, QMII will be on the phone this evening with various people discussing how to deal with it.

- And Joachim has to go out - soon - to basically distance himself from Alexandra. Not a pleasant situation for him to be in. Depending on how this is seen by Nikolai and Felix.

However if Joachim is basically in agreement with Alexandra, then we have a major rift within the DRF.
If Joachim remains silent it will, by most I think, be interpreted as silent agreement with Alexandra. Most annoying, but it will eventually pass in the public eye, but still leave a public chink in the DRF image.
If Joachim goes out and in various ways express agreement with Alexandra, then we have a situation where Joachim is likely to get the boot.
Not officially, but he and Marie will simply stop doing jobs for the DRF and over time stop attending major events within the DRF like galas.

In the worst scenario Joachim will go out supporting Alexandra, in which case he is likely to be sacked publicly.
It will be announced that J&M will stop being working members of the DRF. - And that no doubt means no apanage.

--------------

And speaking of apanage.
One commentator made an interesting point: That a royal title = apanage and working for the DRF.

No work = No title, no apanage.

A very simple and logic solution.
It sounds very plausible to me that stripping Joachim's children of their titles is based on just that.
And that is what is going to happen to Frederik's grandchildren at some point in the future.

 

[kalnel]

I wonder why the titles are lapsing on January 1, as opposed to today or some other future date. What's happening on that date that the situation with the titles matters? Why put everyone in limbo for three months?

Hmmm...

Alexandra's reaction is baffling, even if she was blindsided. She knows how the game is played, and she could have made her thoughts known later without escalating everything right now. Why did it matter that she release a statement today? And, why such an emotional statement?

Again, hmmm...

It all points to something on the short-term horizon. An engagement? Career moves for the boys? A change in the Queen's status/role? A change in Joachim's role?

I guess we'll see.

 

[Stefan]

This is admittedly not what I know most about. So anyone please correct me.

QMII certainly has to sign a paper stripping or granting a title. Nowadays that's almost exclusively done within the extended family.

The title of Count of Monpezat was granted to PH and his descendants as a nod to his family, because they used that title, but they held no land, there was no fief. In other words it was a disused title in name only.
So Count of Monpezet is a Danish title, not a French title.
BTW that also means Athena will not be Countess, but Komtesse of Monpezat until she marries, after which she will lose her title altogether or take her husband's title, if he has one. - Unless the monarch give her a personal title, that cannot be inherited. Just like Alexandra's title.

It may be a danish Title but the place after which is named is french not danish. Even those who lost their Titles with connection of their uineual marriages got a title named after a place in Denmark

 

[Erin9]

And I am sorry...I don't buy the this is for the best...put crown before family feelings, etc. There are much better ways to handle things like this.



Plus, IMO, this SUCKS for Joachim's kids to strip them retroactively! It would have been best (and no one would have batted an eye) if the statement had said that while Joachim's kids would retain their titles, any and all their descendants would ONLY carry the tile of Count/countess of Monpezat. DONE. But to strip her own grandchildren..in what seems like (to date) such a callous/cold move is ridiculous. Just because something may be "For the best" doesn't mean it has to be done in what seems like such a detached manner. That statement is the equivalent of "too bad, so sad".



IF there was no proper communication of this and everyone was NOT on the same page, then I can understand the feelings of shock and hurt coming from those affected by this move. Alexandra has usually seemed pretty respectful in terms of making statements (that I can tell) and she's always shown discretion...it sounds like she went into auto-pilot mama bear mode on behalf of her two sons.



You don't strip your grandchildren of titles like this, especially ones that have done absolutely nothing wrong. Sorry, it looks callous and heartless to me. It seems totally unnecessary to do this retroactively at this point instead of just having it be something going forward. Actually, it looks spiteful.



There is a total disconnect between action and consequences here.

I’m a bigger fan of the: “going forward” method myself. It shows you’re slimming the monarchy down without taking anything away from anyone. UNLESS- everyone is truly on board with that as an immediate decision.

Kids too little to know the difference doesn’t seem too bad either. But that’s not the case here. 2 of the 4 are adults as is. They get it.

If it turns out that they were totally blindsided- that is just wrong. IMO- there is no excuse for anyone not knowing this was coming. You make sure before issuing a press release.

 

[Stefan]

I’m a bigger fan of the: “going forward” method myself. It shows you’re slimming the monarchy down without taking anything away from anyone. UNLESS- everyone is truly on board with that as an immediate decision.

Kids too little to know the difference doesn’t seem too bad either. But that’s not the case here. 2 of the 4 are adults as is. They get it.

And also the other 13 and 10 so old enough to understand. Not like in Sweden

 

[tommy100]

It is all rather bizarre in some way.

On one hand, I do agree with slimmed down RFs - the days of everyone having some sort of Prince/Princess title has to come to an end. That said, I always thought Daisy would simply do the same as Sweden and make the children's titles personal ones, not to be shared with a spouse or any children (which I understand re future children they wouldn't of anyway). Even taking the His/Her Highness I would of expected.

This though I wasn't. I do feel sorry for the children, especially for the older boys who are now, really, young adults. They will remember this, even if the younger two may not.

Again, on one hand it is good for the monarchy (though begs questions about M&Fs children and descendants titles) but on the other hand the way it has been handled seems poor. I would of expected the same as the Swedish RF did - the announcement followed quickly by statements of support endorsing it by Joachim and Marie and Alexandra.
Not getting Alexandra on side was a PR blunder no matter what we may think of her, what she has said will create drama, intrigue and speculation.
What it does show IMO is that Alexandra hasn't been in the know about this since May, I don't believe if she had this would be the response. Even if she couldn't be convinced to get on board I believe she'd have a longer, more detailed response prepared than this. This strikes me as someone caught unawares. Saying Joachim has been part of discussions or whatever since May doesn't sound like "Joachim agreed whole heartedly with it since it was discussed in May" IMO. Again, the fact Joachim doesn't have an immediate response to the announcement is pretty telling to me.

 

[Prinsara]

Again, the fact Joachim doesn't have an immediate response to the announcement is pretty telling to me.

That he hasn't discussed it with Alexandra or that he agrees with her?

 

[crm2317]

I would say that he agrees with Alexandra but it too loyal to his mother to come out and say what he really thinks.

If he supported this move then he would have issued a statement at some point today to say so.

 

[maria-olivia]

1/1/2023 not the Year of the Queen's 50 years Jubilee !

 

[Muhler]

I would say that he agrees with Alexandra but it too loyal to his mother to come out and say what he really thinks.

If he supported this move then he would have issued a statement at some point today to say so.

It's late evening in DK right now.

Tomorrow we shall see.

Joachim and/or the DRF can't stay silent on this.
So I guess there will be a family conference tomorrow and then we'll see.

The longer the collective silence persists, the more pessimistic regarding a rift in the family, I will become.

Goodnight.

 

[Marengo]

Css Alexandra should have kept her mouth shut IMO. This is not a decision that will be withdrawn by her sulking at this stage. So what is the point of expressing her surprise? If her shock is genuine, it still is just making a -for her- bad situation worse.

This will have passed through many courtiers. I doubt very much that it was a spur of the moment decision.

Out of curiosity: is the Danish government involved in this in any form? I understand that Queen is free to do what she wants in terms of titles -as pointed out above- but is it known if it was at least discussed with the prime minister?

 

[Muhler]

Css Alexandra should have kept her mouth shut IMO. This is not a decision that will be withdrawn by her sulking at this stage. So what is the point of expressing her surprise? If her shock is genuine, it still is just making a -for her- bad situation worse.

This will have passed through many courtiers. I doubt very much that it was a spur of the moment decision.

Out of curiosity: is the Danish government involved in this in any form? I understand that Queen is free to do what she wants in terms of titles -as pointed out above- but is it known if it was at least discussed with the prime minister?

Could be, but unlikely. The politicians usually stay clear of internal matters within the DRF - unless they are of national or Constitutional interests. (I imagine any ideas of allowing PH to act as Rigsforstander was shot down by the politicians.)
So at best the PM was informed and that's it.

Unless of course QMII has lost it, and acted on her own, ordering the statement to be published without informing the PM or anyone in the family. But that is of course only one among a number of possibilities.

 

[victor1319]

Joachim will still be a royal highness and a prince of Denmark in 2023...

Thank you for your answer! It is only, that the German tabloid reports too, that Joachim will be a mere Count from 2023 on. And they have a document!

See here: https://www.bunte.de/royals/daenisc...-koenigshaus-sohn-joachim-verliert-titel.html

Perhaps Muhler could have a look at it. Albeit Danish is a Germanic language I might have understood it wrong.

 

[tommy100]

That he hasn't discussed it with Alexandra or that he agrees with her?

I was referring to him having no statement ready to go being a sign that a) the announcement was maybe rushed today for some reason b) he can't say he supports taking the titles if he doesn't c) rather like not getting Alexandra on board, not getting Joachim on board and with a statement ready to go at the same time / just after the announcement was poor planning from a PR view

 

[Iolanthe]

Thank you for your answer! It is only, that the German tabloid reports too, that Joachim will be a mere Count from 2023 on. And they have a document!

See here: https://www.bunte.de/royals/daenisc...-koenigshaus-sohn-joachim-verliert-titel.html

Perhaps Muhler could have a look at it. Albeit Danish is a Germanic language I might have understood it wrong.

You read/translated it correctly. Bunte writes that Joachim, Marie and the four children will loose their prince/princess titles.
Bunte probably got excited and got it wrong. They don't have any new sources. The "document" is the known and discussed press release.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It may be a danish Title but the place after which is named is french not danish. Even those who lost their Titles with connection of their uineual marriages got a title named after a place in Denmark

It is just the surname of the father and grandfather of the greves and komtesses: de Laborde de Monpezat. Okay, Monpezat was one of the historic ancestral properties but the Danish title does not refer to a geographical location but to a french gentilhomme family.