New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I do agree that everyone needs to publicly move on. Continuing to discuss this publicly won’t help. It won’t change anything. And it will almost undoubtedly make things worse. Though I do sympathize with them.

However- why do you think the bullying story isn’t true? That sounds believable to me. Just the kind of thing one kid would say imo.

I believe that another kid would ask Athena if she is the girl who is no longer a princess, especially if her parents insisted on her being called "princess" at school before that .

On the second part, however, if Athena asked her parents why they no longer have the same name, they should simply explain to her that they still have the same family name (Monpezat) as they always have. "Prins/Prinsesse til Danmark" is not a family name as far as I understand, but rather a title. If Joachim and Marie think otherwise, someone in the Court should explain that to them. Just my opinion of course.

[Sister Morphine]

Originally Posted by Erin9

I do agree that everyone needs to publicly move on. Continuing to discuss this publicly won’t help. It won’t change anything. And it will almost undoubtedly make things worse. Though I do sympathize with them.

However- why do you think the bullying story isn’t true? That sounds believable to me. Just the kind of thing one kid would say imo.

It's too convenient. All that was missing was Athena crying into a teddy bear while she told her mother what the mean student said to her. Maybe I'm too cynical for my own good, but that story reeks of trying to get public opinion on their side by making QMII look like a villain in one of Grimm's fairy tales.

Now, it's entirely possible that this did in fact happen. Not only does Athena have to deal with bullies at school, but she also has to deal with the fact that everyone knows about it, which is humiliating. It also won't make the bullying stop, either, because bullies are not known for rational thoughts and behavior.

[Michiru-Kaiou]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Assuming that story is true. Marie should have prepared Athena to fire back at the bullies and say to them "I'm still a Countess- What are you?"

I was bullied at school and no matter what my grandma tried to teach me about it when it came to the situation I just froze and none of the lines my grandma told me came to my mind, some people can't fight back. I sure hope Athena is not like me in that regard.

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

Also, I don't believe for one second Athena is being bullied in school over this. Not one nanosecond.

I do, it's all too plausible and I feared that could happen from the beginning:

Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou

Also, children can be cruel and I sincerely hope that this "name" change won't lead to bullying at school for the two younger ones, which might even lead to a blow to their self-confidence.

In any case I hope Henrik and Athena will come out of this without any lasting psychological damage.

best wishes Michiru

[Hans-Rickard]

It’s easy to criticize Joachim and Marie for not refusing to talk to the press… I will abstain from that because all i see is people in shock, disbelief and anger being confronted by news-hungry journalists demanding answers - while they at the same time tries to handle the aftermath of the shock reactions and tries to uphold a normal family life for themselves…
The era when ”no comments” was an acceptable and respected answer and would have seen the journalists withdraw without any further questions is long gone….

The one who should stay quiet because she has everything to loose herself on media rants is Alexandra… She is no longer a member of the DRF and her continued rants just makes people suspicious that she tried to profite on her sons titles and that she is the reason for all this…

Nikolai i think gave the most balanced answer so far by choosing to not go to any irreversible personal attacks but instead criticizing HOW this has been handled…. Because it is there the big problem is and it is there he can get any public sympathies if her cares about that (wich he should)

Ofcourse The Queen can’t say anything… What should she say ? And how would that help her or Joachim to restore any form of mutual respect if she, the head of state would launch a counterattack at her SON through media ?
She is in a really awkward position right now. A position that was easily avoidable had a different approach been taken…

Mary and Benedikte did what they could do by defending The Queen in carefully selected words…

It will be interesting (or not) to hear what Frederik has to say… Because he will be hunted by the journalists until they find him and he gives some form of answer…

At the end of the day - what the general public will remember from this is a Royal Family where members is unable to talk to each other face-to-face and sends chamberlains and secretaries to convey emotional messages….. Does it give the signal that Amalienborg lives in 2022 ? Hardly

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

Royals who appeared in the commercial are indeed poster-children for the concept of useless, over-privileged empty vessels.

Exactly. Did they learn nothing from the fate of Marie Antoinette?

It's a very bad look, not made better by the fact that the older woman sitting to Nikolai's left looks a bit like this grandmother.

[Adda]

Good lord, besides their pathetic entitlement, do they think that venting their frustrations for everyone to see will get QMII to return the kid's titles?
They are doing a tremendous harm to the DRF and to themselves by turning this into a telenovela. They are, I'm afraid, burning bridges.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

Royals who appeared in the commercial are indeed poster-children for the concept of useless, over-privileged empty vessels.

Funny, in this version of the ad he is even styled HRH, what is clearly not true.
https://twitter.com/sethbleonard/sta...36379078356992

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

It's too convenient. All that was missing was Athena crying into a teddy bear while she told her mother what the mean student said to her. Maybe I'm too cynical for my own good, but that story reeks of trying to get public opinion on their side by making QMII look like a villain in one of Grimm's fairy tales.

Now, it's entirely possible that this did in fact happen. Not only does Athena have to deal with bullies at school, but she also has to deal with the fact that everyone knows about it, which is humiliating. It also won't make the bullying stop, either, because bullies are not known for rational thoughts and behavior.

I had the same reaction -- it was a crass attempt to pull at heartstrings, even if it was true.

If Athena was so unprepared, I'd point to bad parenting. In the course of five days, it *is* possible to prepare a 10-year-old for a change like this and give her advice on how to deal with things.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

My issues with the reactions to QMII's decision lie with the adults, not the little kids. That means Joachim's two adult sons, Joachim, Alexandra, and Marie. They're the ones that are shooting off their yaps, not Henrik or Athena. I don't doubt the two of them are upset and confused. They're children.

Also, I don't believe for one second Athena is being bullied in school over this. Not one nanosecond. It sounds like a lot of hooey to try and inflame public opinion. "Look at how awful my mother-in-law is for hurting my little girl!"

Now, if it turns out to be true, that makes it even worse because rather than dealing with that issue privately, with the school, she dragged it out in public, humiliating her daughter. Do you think the teasing/bullying will stop NOW? That's only going to make it worse if it's indeed happening.

All the adults in this story, on all sides, are dealing with this really, really poorly.



Ah, NeNe Leakes, the Queen of the Clapback.

Joachim and Marie have sounded really immature with their most recent comments. They shouldn’t be saying anything at all in public, let alone making comments more appropriate that wouldn’t be out of place in a reality TV show. And bringing the younger children into the spotlight even more by talking about things like bullying (although I wouldn’t agree that the situation that Marie described amounts to bullying) is only making things worse for everyone, especially the kids.

They’ve known for at least several months that something like this would be coming sooner or later. They should have started preparing the children the minute any sort of discussions began, because it sounds like the writing was on the wall - the titles were being taken away, it was only a matter of time.

If the children have so much of their identity wrapped up in their titles that this is a crisis for them then too much emphasis has been put on those titles in their daily lives. Henrik and Athena are young children far down the line of succession who have been living abroad for several years - their titles should be irrelevant on a day to day basis, and no longer being able to use them shouldn’t be anything more than a minor bump in the road. The kids will react as they see their parents reacting. If Joachim and Marie were keeping their cool at home then Henrik and Athena would no doubt carry on without issue. And then are plenty of dignified responses they could have helped the children come up with to respond to any smart mouth classmate. The response to “you’re not a princess anymore” is “yes, but I’m still Athena and that’s all that matters.”

[tommy100]

I think enough is enough, everyone needs to stop talking - J&M and Alex need to stop and the Royal Court needs to stop getting the royals out to make supportive comments about it. The response going forward should be , this is a private family matter and we will be working on in together not in public.

I do feel sorry for the grandchildren still and will always feel Margrethe has handled it shockingly, making the situation a 100% worse. The fact she still hasn't spoken to J&M says it all. She has created her own Sussex's situation but by her own making not theirs. How sad.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

It's too convenient. All that was missing was Athena crying into a teddy bear while she told her mother what the mean student said to her. Maybe I'm too cynical for my own good, but that story reeks of trying to get public opinion on their side by making QMII look like a villain in one of Grimm's fairy tales.



Now, it's entirely possible that this did in fact happen. Not only does Athena have to deal with bullies at school, but she also has to deal with the fact that everyone knows about it, which is humiliating. It also won't make the bullying stop, either, because bullies are not known for rational thoughts and behavior.

I can be cynical myself. It could be a sympathy ploy. Sure. But- there’s just nothing at all surprising to me that at least one kid wouldn’t throw this in Athena’s face. I’d be more surprised if this hadn’t happened to her. It’s been all over the news. Kids can just be cruel. I’m personally inclined to take this at face value.

I do think you make a good point that if this is true- now everyone knows it is too. *sigh*

[polyesco]

So Joachim and Marie say their relationship with the heir is complicated. And with his mother "It's also family. Or whatever we want to call it.” "
That their kids are deeply wounded.
But yet they end by saying that they are still part of the Royal House.
I mean throwing dirt on them publically is not the way to go. Of course the Queen wasn't going to stop in the middle of her duties to talk about her son. What could she have said. Contradict him and call him a liar?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The former royal family of Greece styles themselves as HRH, although if I'm not mistaken that has ceased to be a legally valid style.

https://www.greekroyalfamily.gr/en/royal-family.html


They do not actually style themselves with the title or territorial designation "of Denmark". It is a title which they have, but do not use.

For example, see the website of Constantine's cousin where he calls himself "Prince Michel of Greece".

Prince Michel of Greece : my story


Former King Constantine's daughter Maria-Olympia has also stated in The Telegraph that "of Greece" is the surname in her (presumably non-Greek) passport:

"Oh, I don’t use it! It’s an amazing thing to have, and I’m so lucky, but I was always just Olympia at school." The Windsors have a surname, but I put it to Olympia she does not. "Of Greece. That’s my name. It’s in my passport."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/w...ered-birthday/

Originally Posted by yukari

I admit that I don't follow Nikolai so I don't know much about him. But on my social media feed, I've seen some video about Raffles Hotel ad in which Nikolai was there and adverted as "HRH Prince Nikolai of Denmark" (it's so cringy, more than Peter Phillips' milk ad).

[...]

He's the video

Originally Posted by kalnel

Also, for those saying that the Greeks don't use the "of Denmark" part of their titles, note that Olympia uses "of Greece and Denmark" in this.

Noted. I'll amend it to "they almost never use the 'of Denmark' title".

Though as Duke of Marmalade mentioned, another video for Raffles used "HRH Prince Nikolai", which suggests the company might have encouraged the participants to "maximize" their stylings.

[yukari]

Originally Posted by Muhler

(....)
Marie admits that with current problems worldwide, titles and names are not the most important thing. (For the general public.)
M: "I would like to emphasize that there are of course some much more important things going in the world, especially these days. It's a bit odd to talk about the titles and names of your children, when we are facing some very serious challenges. But you have to consider the way children think. The conditions of children. And that's what's decisive."

J: "They have a different perception of the world. And that's very near. In my job (as attache) the thought are often out in the wide world. But right now we have given a full defense (defensive talk) for our children. They also need some calm now."

Marie says that it will be difficult to find that calm, because this story is global news.

- At that moment a French woman approach them and says that to her, their children will always be princes and princess. Making both of them speechless and begin cry.
Both of them make it clear they have no intention of leaving the DRF, they will continue to work for the DRF. Even if the family is divided.
M: "We have never been in doubt about that. I hope no one is in doubt about that."
J: "That's exactly what we are doing. Each of us in our position are representatives of Denmark and Danish interests. And the DRF. And the interests of the DRF."

- No comments from me at the moment.

I'm sorry if I interpret it wrongly, but is this supposed to mean that a 13 and 10 year old has(d) been asking their schoolmates (and maybe the parents too) to call them "prince/ss"?
Really?! I get that posh schools exist, but they're still 13 and 10 year old kids, and I don't think a 13 or 10 year old has fully understanding of titles (maybe something like "I'm my Daddy's princess", but not "princess" in the context of monarchy). I see some questionable parenting there if since young age, a child is being told to put emphasis on their status instead of them as individual. And being a relative of a famous person in your circle already make you a potential bullying target, but to ask your classmate to call you "prince/as" and pushing "your status" most likely won't grant you "high place" amongst your classmate and instead make you bigger target. (I'm talking as someone who's bullied through my primary school years because who my father was to the point that I changed school twice. And at the 3rd school, I learnt that it mosty stopped by laying low).

And here I used to think that DRF is more down to earth than BRF.
Does Christian or Isabelle's classmates also call them "Prince Christian" or "Princess Isabelle"?

And BTW, about this becoming global news, I think if they don't talk much to the media and just make graceful statement (of their understanding of the situation), keeping the family discord behind closed door, this won't be a huge global news, similar to the SRF. Sorry, while I think the announcement should be better communicated, but the more Joachim and his family open their mouths, the more I lose sympathy towards them.

[Adda]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I'm not sure they realize the damage they are doing internally. This certainly will not help make amends with the Queen and CP Couple.

Assuming that story is true. Marie should have prepared Athena to fire back at the bullies and say to them "I'm still a Countess- What are you?"

Exactly. If Joachim is entitled enough to demand people refer to his children as Prince/Princess at school, he can also prepare them to have a strong military mindset when it comes to deal with unpleasant people's opinions...but well, that didn't work with the two eldest.

Originally Posted by Alisa

would've loved if she turned around and told the press "I said what I said!".

She is The Queen. It really is beneath her to be going back and forth in the press with adults who are behaving alot like children these days.

Her decision speaks for itself!

Heck yes! I agree that it was all clumsily done, but she knows best why she did it. Those who want/will vilify her won't stop doing so, but she doesn't have to give explanations to anyone other than her own family (in private!) Those who don't like it can close the door on the way out, or stay in France.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by camelot23ca

J

If the children have so much of their identity wrapped up in their titles that this is a crisis for them then too much emphasis has been put on those titles in their daily lives. Henrik and Athena are young children far down the line of succession who have been living abroad for several years - their titles should be irrelevant on a day to day basis, and no longer being able to use them shouldn’t be anything more than a minor bump in the road.

That was exactly my point above. If kids asked Athena if she is not a princess anymore, it is likely that she identified herself as a princess at school before. Otherwise, kids at school in France might not even know that she was a royal at all. Correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt that junior Danish royals are very well-known or easily recognized in France, except perhaps by people who read certain magazines, who are not kids of Athena's age.

Athena is not to blame though. She is just a kid who may be suffering bullying now, which is unfortunate. The fault lies with her parents who made her title a big part of her identity in a foreign country where Danish titles are not even recognized.

[Marchesina]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

I don't think it is just a matter of modeling being considered a frivilous career. In my opinion, Nikolai was clearly monetizing his title and there were indications Felix was about to do the same. Frankly, their mother, who (informally at least) seems to manage their careers, was pushing it. The boys won't be models forever either. At some point, they will probably transition to a career in business, which is their university degree after all, and may take advantage of their royal connections too, which would be even more delicate, especially if they worked for Danish companies.


Of course they can still take advantage of their Count of Monpezat titles and of the fact that they will always be grandsons of the Queen or nephews of the future King, but, without the princely title, at least they will not be directly linked to the Royal House anymore.


I don't necessarily agree that relatives of the monarch who are not full-time working royals cannot be princes/princesses, but, if they are, they must refrain from using their titles professionally. The York girls don't use "Princess" in their jobs for example, unlike Nikolai.

That's, IMO, what has made things go at an unexpected pace. The Raffles Hotel campaign was definitely unbecoming, with Nikolai even using HRH.
Surely the link with the family is still there, as it is for other grandchildren of monarchs who are in the "influencing business", but at least they are not cheapening a royal title.

[akina21]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Athena is merely in the same position as Eloise, Claus-Casimir and Leonore in the Netherlands: their father is Z.K.H. Constantijn [Christof Frederik Aschwin] Prins der Nederlanden, Prins van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer van Amsberg and they are [Forename(s)] graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg.

Joachim is HKH Joachim [Holger Waldemar Christian] prins til Danmark, greve af Monpezat and his children will be [Forenames] greve/komtesse af Monpezat. It appears to me that they have the same family name (Monpezat).

No she isn't. Eloise and siblings/cousins where not born with the title Prince/ss and weren't retroactivly demoted very publically .

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Athena is merely in the same position as Eloise, Claus-Casimir and Leonore in the Netherlands: their father is Z.K.H. Constantijn [Christof Frederik Aschwin] Prins der Nederlanden, Prins van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer van Amsberg and they are [Forename(s)] graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg.

Joachim is HKH Joachim [Holger Waldemar Christian] prins til Danmark, greve af Monpezat and his children will be [Forenames] greve/komtesse af Monpezat. It appears to me that they have the same family name (Monpezat).

In a legal sense, the members of the Royal House are surnameless. The 2008 press release specified that "Count/Countess of Monpezat" was a title, and "to Denmark" is not registered as a surname either. I suppose that in 2023, "of Monpezat" will become the surname of the children who are to lose their royal titles (and "Count" and "Countess" will be their titles), just as "of Rosenborg" became the surname of Ingolf and other princes who were demoted to the "Count" title in the past.

In a practical sense, it is true that the children will be known by different "names" than their parents. But that would have happened anyway once they married and lost their titles (if Countess Alexandra's spokesperson's comments to CNN can be believed). I realize the change would be emotionally easier for an adult no longer living with their parents and making the voluntary choice to get married.

Originally Posted by Bonastre

I don't think so. She will be Her Excellency Countess Athena of Monpezat, mrs. XXX.

No, the 2008 press release (see link above) stated that the normal regulations would apply to the Countess of Monpezat title. The normal regulations are that born Countesses and Baronesses lose their titles on marriage.

https://newsbreak.dk/komtesse/

Originally Posted by BT

- At that moment a French woman approach them and says that to her, their children will always be princes and princess. Making both of them speechless and begin cry.

While it is lovely that the bystander was able to somewhat comfort the distraught couple, I'm afraid her comment did not have the same effect on me. The bystander's remark seems to be implying that "prince" and "princess" are not merely titles, but that there is a class of princes and princesses who are intrinsically superior to people who are not princes or princesses.

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Again - Henrik and the King topic comes to my mind.

While this is not the point you were addressing, it is interesting how during the manifold discussions on Henrik's titles, most believed that the decision not to style Henrik as King was not personal, even though he was the only person affected by it, whereas this decision affecting four people is perceived as personal by many.

Originally Posted by akina21

No she isn't. Eloise and siblings/cousins where not born with the title Prince/ss and weren't retroactivly demoted very publically .

This change will be applied to existing persons, but it will not be retroactive. Nikolai and siblings will continue to be recognized as having been princes and princess until December 31, 2022. It would be retroactive if the Queen had declared that they had never been princes and princess.

[tihkon2]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

This is not Hollywood, where you live. This is Her Majesty The Queen, the doyenne of all European Sovereigns, now reigning for 50 years. A Queen answers no questions flung into her face.

And that kind of thinking gets her a screwed up family life like she so very obviously has now. She caused this and she now reaps what she has sown.

I'm glad they're not going quietly into the night.