Greenland and the Danish Monarchy

[RoyalistRiley]

Hi. I was wondering if anyone thinks that the Greenlandic people's attitude to Queen Margrethe and the Danish Royal Family will change now that it has attained greater autonomy. I know that the Crown Prince has a strong feeling fro Greenland, but will the increased independence see a push for a local president to replace HM all the way away in Copenhagen?

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley

Hi. I was wondering if anyone thinks that the Greenlandic people's attitude to Queen Margrethe and the Danish Royal Family will change now that it has attained greater autonomy. I know that the Crown Prince has a strong feeling fro Greenland, but will the increased independence see a push for a local president to replace HM all the way away in Copenhagen?

So far the greater autonomy of Greenland hasn't places Greenland outside the Danish Realm - accordingly QMII is still the Queen of Greenland and Frederik is Greenlands CP.

But who knows what will happen in the future?

Personally I do think that Greenland will be a complete sovereign state one day - or I hope so. But they still have a long way to go. Whether such a soverignity will include monarcy or not - I can't tell.

I do know that the bond between Greenland and Denmark will alwayes be strong. History isn't something that is so easily put aside. The bond between Iceland and Denmark today attests to that.

Anyway if the day comes when Greenland has to decide whether to maintaine monarchy or not - they will ask exactly the same question as people in other democratic monarchys does: Do we really want a politician as head of state? Isn't there something reassuring about not having the head of state being involved in politcs? And what about the value a Royal Family provide regarding marketing our country?

[Thomas Parkman]

Oh Lord, in thine infinite Mercy, Deliver us from yet another of these accursed republics.

[Benedikte]

Personally I do hope that Greenland will be a complete sovereign state one day.

But the understanding between the CP Frederik is so strong that he will always be connected to Greenland in some form. CP Frederik has not only visited Greenland but has also joined the Sirius patrol in Greenland.

I don't think that the bond between Greenland and Denmark are strong. Denmark has treated Greenland very badly. Par example given USA access to Greenland without asking Greenland. Denmark has also some years ago remowed children from their parents to make them more danish.

I'm sure Greenland would always prefer CP Frederik for any president.

And I'm sure that Greenland should be more aware of the opportunities that can be achieved in trade and cooperating with Canada and USA.

I don't think Greenland can benefit from a closer cooperation with Denmark. Denmark is a very small country with an arrogant and colonial attitude towards Greenland that cannot be positive in any form for Greenland.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

Personally I do hope that Greenland will be a complete sovereign state one day.

But the understanding between the CP Frederik is so strong that he will always be connected to Greenland in some form. CP Frederik has not only visited Greenland but has also joined the Sirius patrol in Greenland.

I don't think that the bond between Greenland and Denmark are strong. Denmark has treated Greenland very badly. Par example given USA access to Greenland without asking Greenland. Denmark has also some years ago remowed children from their parents to make them more danish.

I'm sure Greenland would always prefer CP Frederik for any president.

And I'm sure that Greenland should be more aware of the opportunities that can be achieved in trade and cooperating with Canada and USA.

I don't think Greenland can benefit from a closer cooperation with Denmark. Denmark is a very small country with an arrogant and colonial attitude towards Greenland that cannot be positive in any form for Greenland.

Eh, no doubt many Greelanders feel like that but I think things are a little more complicated than this.

Greenland was officially a colony and treated as such until the 1950's, albeit not with a surplus for DK.
If I remember correctly Home Rule was introduced in the 1970's.

Many mistakes were made in the attempt to change Greenland and especially the Greenlanders from what was a poor hunting and fishing community to a modern province with small scale industry, moderne administration and modern fishing methods. - It was a huge cultural shock! And many Greenlanders understandebly could not cope, not least among who went to Denmark to have an education.
However, many did cope! And Greenland is now autnomous.

As for the US base at Thule in Greenland.
To this day, Denmark is responsible for the foreign and security policy of Greenland, for the very simple reason that Greenland is physically unable to maintaing sovereignty on it's own.
The base was established early on during the Cold War and it's a question how much of a choice Denmark really had in that respect. The Thule base was instrumental both for NATO, NORAD (early warning system) and for SAC (Strategic Air Command). Denmark was militarily and politically unable to ensure Greenland against a Soviet threat.
It would in my opinion have been utterly irresponsible had the US government not establised a base in Greenland, regardless of what the Danes let alone the Greenlanders would have thought of it.

As for Greenland being better of without the support of the danish government. Well, that can certainly be debated!
Just keep in mind that with natural resources in Greenland, not least oil and gas and the expected opening of the North West Passage, Greenland may well end up as an American protectorate.
If I was an American voter I would go utterly ballistic if my government didn't secure such resources right on the doorstep of USA.

Do not believe the Greenlanders have much choice when it comes to foreign and security politics.

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by Muhler

If I remember correctly Home Rule was introduced in the 1970's.

Yes, in 1979

[Benedikte]

Originally Posted by Muhler

As for the US base at Thule in Greenland.
To this day, Denmark is responsible for the foreign and security policy of Greenland, for the very simple reason that Greenland is physically unable to maintaing sovereignty on it's own.

Greenland may well end up as an American protectorate.

There is no difference between being a protectorate of America than a protectorate of Denmark, besides it would perhaps be a lot better for Greenland to be protected by USA than Denmark.

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

There is no difference between being a protectorate of America than a protectorate of Denmark, besides it would perhaps be a lot better for Greenland to be protected by USA than Denmark.

Have you considered the difference in size and power, between USA and Denmark?

Say Greenland chose to tie with the Americans (true independence is impossible - Greenland has neither the workforce nor the intelligensia to maintain even the most simple of institutions - be thy governmental, educational or infrastructural), how much time do you think the US government would spend on Greenlands social issues etc.?

Greenland can choose to be a medium fish in the small Danish waters, or an insignificant bit of plankton in the vast sea that is the USA.

IMO, I wish we would be rid of Greenland sooner rather than later. They are ever eager to point out how bad they've been treated, and that they should have complete independence. I say "Give them it and be done with it". I don't care to pour billions in support of ingrates.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by nwinther

IMO, I wish we would be rid of Greenland sooner rather than later. They are ever eager to point out how bad they've been treated, and that they should have complete independence. I say "Give them it and be done with it". I don't care to pour billions in support of ingrates.

Do you remember when the republicans on the Faroe Islands negotiated gradual independence with the then PM Poul Nyrup?
They got a lesson in real politics! - The ideas about independence seems now to have been largely abandoned...

If the Greenlanders were to attach themselves to another country I think they would be more interested in Canada.
Canada and Denmark are now working closely together about maintaning control and sovereignty in the arctic.
Demark has always had a pretty strong presence there, Canada appear to have neglected that, so they have started a military build-up in the arctic now.

[Benedikte]

Reading the comments it is obvious that CP Frederik is committed to Greenland but his opinion of Greenland is not shared with everyone.

As some danish would cry dry tears over Greenland there is all the more reason why Greenland should try some closer engagement with Canada or USA.

I think Greenland could benefit from a cooperation with countries who has a lot to offer.

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Do you remember when the republicans on the Faroe Islands negotiated gradual independence with the then PM Poul Nyrup?
They got a lesson in real politics! - The ideas about independence seems now to have been largely abandoned...

If the Greenlanders were to attach themselves to another country I think they would be more interested in Canada.
Canada and Denmark are now working closely together about maintaning control and sovereignty in the arctic.
Demark has always had a pretty strong presence there, Canada appear to have neglected that, so they have started a military build-up in the arctic now.

It would make sense for Greenland to ally themselves with the Canadians. They have a common cause with the inuit population in Canada. However, here too, Greenland would come up short compared with remaining in the Danish realm. Noone else would allow them places in the governmental body (or at least not by default), and as such they are small fish in a big sea.

Originally Posted by Benedikte

I think Greenland could benefit from a cooperation with countries who has a lot to offer.

Those countries being?

No doubt that you can fall in love with a region, such as Greenland - as the CP certainly has. But breaking her ties with Denmark (which I hope they do) will force Greenland to seek other nations to cooperate with. And none of the possible countries would as much as glance in the direction of Greenland when it comes to educational institutions, healthcare and other institutions.

If you look at the US Virgin Islands, former Danish West-Indies, the population there haven't even got the right to vote. Should Greenland propose to go independent and then make appeareance in the US senate, whenever they need some sort of deal, they'll count for nothing - 50.000 people!!! Greenland would have to agree to whatever the US decides, with no special treatment, no subsidies, nothing.

[Benedikte]

Greenland could join the EC.

And be a little fish together with Denmark

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

Reading the comments it is obvious that CP Frederik is committed to Greenland but his opinion of Greenland is not shared with everyone.

It seems his commitment is not shared with you, nwinther and muhler. As for the rest of the danes - they have not stated their oppinions on this thread. I for one do not agreed with the three of you. I love Greenland and my greenlandic friends but I also want Greenland to become an independent state one day - but out of respect for the greenlandic people. Not because of the discounting oppinions the three of you have stated.

[Benedikte]

Originally Posted by Lilla

It seems his commitment is not shared with you, nwinther and muhler. As for the rest of the danes - they have not stated their oppinions on this thread. I for one do not agreed with the three of you. I love Greenland and my greenlandic friends but I also want Greenland to become an independent state one day - but out of respect for the greenlandic people. Not because of the discounting oppinions the three of you have stated.

Well I don't know any from Greenland but I can assure you that I too wish the best for the Greenlandic people. And I'm not sharing the opinion of nwinter nor muhler.

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

Well I don't know any from Greenland but I can assure you that I too wish the best for the Greenlandic people. And I'm not sharing the opinion of nwinter nor muhler.

Thanks for making that qlear, Benedikte

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

Reading the comments it is obvious that CP Frederik is committed to Greenland but his opinion of Greenland is not shared with everyone.

As some danish would cry dry tears over Greenland there is all the more reason why Greenland should try some closer engagement with Canada or USA.

I think Greenland could benefit from a cooperation with countries who has a lot to offer.

I have no idea what Frederik's opinion is on Greenland becoming independent and that's not really the point with my posts.

This a real politics. Brutal reality.

If Greenland become independant, they are suddenly on their own.
If Greenland wish to join the EU just keep in mind that this will primarily be on terms set up by EU, Greenland will have little they can put on the table in return.

An independent Greenland will be swimming in a big, big ocean full of sharks.

If the Greenlanders want to be independant, that's fine with me. That's for them to decide, not me.
There is a population of about 60.000 of which ethnic Danes constitute up to 10.000. - Unless Greenland is ready to pay a very good salary, most of them will leave.
Healtcare and hospitals. Greenland will have to pay for specialised medical treatment elsewhere.
Education: Greenland will have to pay for Greenlandic students attending universities elsewhere.
Sovereignty. From a limited population pool, Greenland will have to man ships to patrol their waters, not to mention to pay for the costs of the vessels, or their waters will be fished empty.
Alternatively agree to a defence pagt with another nation. - And agree to the terms!

It will be pretty difficult to convince the Danish taxpayers to foot the bill for the things mentioned above, without getting something very substancial in return.
When you want independence, your are on your own.

Real politics.

[Benedikte]

Originally Posted by Muhler

I have no idea what Frederik's opinion is on Greenland becoming independent and that's not really the point with my posts.
There is a population of about 60.000 of which ethnic Danes constitute up to 10.000. - Unless Greenland is ready to pay a very good salary, most of them will leave.
When you want independence, your are on your own.

Real politics.

I don't know either what CP Frederik thinks, other than it is common knowledge that Frederik loves Greenland and is committed to the people there.

Apart from that I don't think that a lot of danes will leave. There are a lot of danes working in Denmark and a lot of them are working in Greenland because they chose not to be unemployed in Denmark.

There might also be a lot of canadians and americans who would like to work in Greenland.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

I don't know either what CP Frederik thinks, other than it is common knowledge that Frederik loves Greenland and is committed to the people there.

Apart from that I don't think that a lot of danes will leave. There are a lot of danes working in Denmark and a lot of them are working in Greenland because they chose not to be unemployed in Denmark.

There might also be a lot of canadians and americans who would like to work in Greenland.

Greenland will still have to pay their salary. - From what?

The resources that may be in the underground? Which may be economically viable to mine?
If Greenland want to attract foreign companies to build up an infrastructure to mine and process the resources from scratch, there are going to be some conditions! The companies will have to be in charge of everything. - How is Greenland going to control what are in reality autonomous mining operations?

[Benedikte]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Greenland will still have to pay their salary. - From what?

The resources that may be in the underground? Which may be economically viable to mine?
If Greenland want to attract foreign companies to build up an infrastructure to mine and process the resources from scratch, there are going to be some conditions! The companies will have to be in charge of everything. - How is Greenland going to control what are in reality autonomous mining operations?

There are countries that are experts in mining and these mining operators will start negociations with Greenland.

That will be really exciting times for Greenland.

Yes I really hope all the best for Greenland. And so do you I'm sure

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

There are countries that are experts in mining and these mining operators will start negociations with Greenland.

That will be really exciting times for Greenland.

Yes I really hope all the best for Greenland. And so do you I'm sure

Oh I do.

I'm just cynical and a liiitle sceptical.

I just hope the Greenlanders realise there is a price to pay for independence and it may be very high!
Independence is also a one-way-street. You can't go back home, once you leave.