General Questions and Information about the Danish Royal Family

[Muhler]

BT has written a number of articles lately based on a book by Søren Jakobsen, a former Ekstra Bladet journalist.
The book and a former similar book is about the most wealthy families in DK, families that are very discreet, do not belong to the jetset and who shun attention.
A number of these families, including the Lego-family, are also close to the DRF, but discreet.

And typical of wealthy and as such influential families they are also close to the royals, who in return bestow titles on members of these families. Like the title of chamberlain, which ranks above supreme court judge.

I haven't got time to go in details about this.
But it has come up before that the DRF are close to, and some would claim too close, to these very rich families.
It's no big issue IMO because the royals have always been close to the rich and powerful in any country at any time. Beforehand that was members of the nobility and as long as it doesn't influence the DRF it's no big deal.
And of course there are cases of "I rub your back, you rub mine".

Also in regards to the sale of Schackenborg, where all sides got a very good deal. - Joachim is now very wealthy and those who bought into Schackenborg got a good (tax deductible) price and the gratitude of the DRF.

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[LeDerius]

Hi,

Does anyone know the formal reason the grandchildren fo Queen Margrethe from her second son are highness instead of royal highness? Is this their way of maintaining the dignity of a royal prince and princess, while making the working royal family smaller?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by LeDerius

Hi,

Does anyone know the formal reason the grandchildren fo Queen Margrethe from her second son are highness instead of royal highness? Is this their way of maintaining the dignity of a royal prince and princess, while making the working royal family smaller?

AFAIK there has never been an official explanation from QMII, but you pretty much nailed it.
Felix, Nikolai, Henrik and Athena are de facto one generation away from being commoners. I.e. they shall not expect their children to have a royal title.
The same thing will most likely be the case for Isabella, Vincent and Josephine's grandchildren.

A qualified guess from me would be that there will be a lot of Count/esses of Montepezat around over the next generation or two.

[CyrilVladisla]

In what year did the rigsforstander first begin in the Danish monarchy?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

In what year did the rigsforstander first begin in the Danish monarchy?

The concept of a Rigsforstander goes back to at least the 1100's.

The word "forstander" means a headmaster or rather leader of a specific institution. Like a school, lunacy asylum, leprosy hospital, prison, house for poor and so on.
So when you add "rigs" to "forstander" you get headmaster/manager of the realm.
The first time the title of Rigsforstander is mentioned officially, with special flag and all, is in 1504.

[Muhler]

Summary of three Q&A in Billed Bladet #17, 2017.

Here a Stine Gotfredsen would like to know how you become countess and baroness.

Jon Bloch Skipper explains that you either inherit the title or marry into the title. - Or as in the case with Countess Alexandra it's bestowed honorary and personally (it can't be inherited) by the Monarch.

- In DK the titles are empty, there are no privileges for nobles.

-------------------------

Lars Holstein Jensen would like to know why Joachim's children are HH and not HRH, despite being in the line of succession.

Jon Bloch Skipper explains that HRH are in DK used by the Heir, the Heir's spouse. Younger children of the Monarch and their spouses. The husband of a reigning queen and the children of the Heir and their spouses.
Everybody else are titled HH.

--------------------

Tom Kaalund Sixhoi would like to know the title of Queen Ingrid after the death of Frederik IX.

Jon Bloch Skipper explains that her full title was Her Majesty Queen Ingrid of Denmark.
Queen Ingrid was not keen on the title of Enkedronning = Dovager. It reminded her of the widow of Frederik VIII, Dovager louise and such she requested being addressed as Enkedronning i.e. Dovager.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Summary of three Q&A in Billed Bladet #17, 2017.

Here a Stine Gotfredsen would like to know how you become countess and baroness.

Jon Bloch Skipper explains that you either inherit the title or marry into the title. - Or as in the case with Countess Alexandra it's bestowed honorary and personally (it can't be inherited) by the Monarch.

Can the Danish monarch grant new, hereditary titles of nobility ?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Can the Danish monarch grant new, hereditary titles of nobility ?

Yes. She made PH Count of Montepezat and their children and grandchildren inherit that title.

[Tatiana Maria]

The queen created her sons Count of Monpezat, hereditary for their male-line descendants:

Pressemeddelelse

Amalienborg, den 30. april 2008

Hendes Majestæt Dronningen har besluttet, at Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsen samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachim tillægges titel af ’greve af Monpezat’. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachims kommende ægtefælle frk. Marie Cavallier vil som følge heraf føre titlen ’grevinde af Monpezat’.

Titlen føres endvidere af efterkommere født i lovligt ægteskab, i overensstemmelse med de almindelige regler, der gælder herom, hvilket vil sige, at titlen ’greve af Monpezat’ videreføres af mandlige descendenter, medens kvindelige descendenter fører titlen ’komtesse af Monpezat’.

Der er tale om en ny, yderligere titel der kan anvendes i tilknytning til de eksisterende. Titlen berører ikke de nugældende prædikater. Navn og titel vil herefter i kort form eksempelvis kunne være:

. Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprins Frederik, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary, grevinde af Monpezat
. Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Christian, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Isabella, komtesse af Monpezat

Eventuelle henvendelser på denne pressemeddelelse bedes rettet til Kabinetssekretariatet på telefon 3340 2484.


Henning Fode
Hendes Majestæt Dronningens Kabinetssekretær

Originally Posted by JR76

Princess Dagmar (1890-1961), daughter of King Frederik VIII married the untitled nobleman Jørgen Castenskjold in 1922 without him or any of their descendants receiving any titles and without her being stripped of her royal title (atleast as far is I can tell).

Princess Dagmar was indeed stripped of her royal title, becoming Mrs. Castenskiold. Princess Elisabeth did not marry her partner Claus Hermansen for the reason that she would have become Mrs. Hermansen.

[MidwestMom]

The actor Sir Roger Moore died today. Apparently he was a friend of the DRF - I remember seeing a picture of him and his wife at Mary and Frederik's wedding. According to the news report I read, the funeral will be in Monaco. I wonder if any of the DRF will attend.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by MidwestMom

The actor Sir Roger Moore died today. Apparently he was a friend of the DRF - I remember seeing a picture of him and his wife at Mary and Frederik's wedding. According to the news report I read, the funeral will be in Monaco. I wonder if any of the DRF will attend.

I don't think so.
It was more his wife, who mingled in circles around the DRF. I think a wreath is about the most to be expected.

[Curryong]

I hope the Crown Prince do attend Sir Roger's funeral as he was an invited guest at their wedding.

However, I've also got a question. The offspring of the monarch and the children of the heir are all HRHs at the moment, I understand. Does that styling ever drop back to HH? For instance are Isabella, Vincent and Josephine HRHs for life or, after the death of their father King Frederik, do they automatically then become His or Her Highnesses, giving way to Christian's children? I just think if Christian himself has four or five children there are going to be quite a lot of HRHs still buzzing around for the next seventy to eighty years.

[Countessmeout]

No unlike the Dutch, degree to the throne doesn't effect ones title or place. Like in UK, once a HrH always. The children of the monarch, and children of their heir apparent. Even when Christian is king, his siblings will still be the children of the former king. Their kids, like Joachims, will be HH. Like Joachim won't be HH when his brother is king. Princess benedikte is still hrh even though her sister is queen. If she outlives her sister, and her nephew is king, nothing will change.

Roger attended the weddings of both Joachim and Fred. But it's not uncommon to see celebrity guests. His wife is a very wealthy Danish-Swedish socialite, thanks to the fortunes of her first two husbands. I'd be surprised if either prince attended though it would be nice to see. They attended events at the Monaco palace. A Grimmauld presence, considering the funeral is in Monaco, may be more likely.

[Lady Ingahild]

Does anyone knows what is the event that shows at 51:05?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Right here.
But it's written in archaic Danish though:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms....aspx?id=45894

And summarized very briefly and simplified:
§1 - In case the Monarch is absent (sick, insane, away from the country or disappeared, held captive and so on) the Heir takes over as Regent.
If the Heir is a minor, or also absent or otherwise unable to take over, the State Council will immediately call a session in the Parliament in order to appoint a Rigsforstander.
The Parliament will also be called in to determine whether the Heir should take over as Regent on a more permanent basis.

§2 - If there is a risk of the Monarch dying before the Heir comes of age, the Monarch will together with the Parliament appoint a Rigsforstander, who will act on behalf of the Heir until he/she comes of age.

§3 - The same thing applies if the Heir dies while still being a minor, but while a Rigsforstander is appointed. The the oldest child of the Heir will become King. (Monarch).
(The old system with the king is dead, long live the king still applies. The Heir automatically becomes king, but cannot rule until he/she is an adult.)

§4 - If the Heir is abroad when the Monarch dies, the Parliament will state a certain time period within which the Heir must return and at the same time decide whether a Rigsforstander is to be appointed.
(Beforehand it could take weeks even months to return to DK. Nowadays Frederik can be back in DK within 24 hours. If not the Parliament will simply appoint Joachim as Rigsforstander until Frederik returns.)

§5 - The Rigsforstander must be a Prince in line to the throne or an adult man, who belongs to the Lutheran church and is a Danish citizen.
(Today a Rigsforstander can be a woman.)

§6 - No one can act as Rigsforstander until he/she adheres to the §7 in the Constitution. - That means signing a pledge to obey the Constitution.

§7 - Constitutionally speaking a Rigsforstander acts as the monarch in anything but name and also enjoys the same immunity as the monarch. The ministers are responsible for the country being run by a government.

§8 - If the Rigsforstander cannot, is unable to, will not act or steps down, the Parliament will immediately appoint a new Rigsforstander.

§9 - In case there is no Rigsforstander in place or in periods where the Rigsforstander no longer functions, the State Council will temporary acts on behalf of a Rigsforstander until a new one is appointed.
(Denmark must never be without a head of state or someone acting on behalf of the head of state - not even for a minute. Because constitutionally speaking all authority is enacted on behalf of the Monarch or on behalf of the Regent or Rigsforstander who acts on behalf of the King. That includes the government who govern on behalf of the Monarch. No Monarch, no government. That's why there is always the Regent or Rigsforstander in place when QMII is abroad for more than a day - and it gets interesting when her plane is grounded due to bad weather as we experienced recently.)

Muhler, thank you for summarizing the statute.
Could a Prince(ss) who is not a Lutheran or not a Danish citizen act as Rigsforstander?
How was the appointment of women as Rigsforstander authorized, as the statute states that only men may act as Rigsforstander?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Muhler, thank you for summarizing the statute.
Could a Prince(ss) who is not a Lutheran or not a Danish citizen act as Rigsforstander?
How was the appointment of women as Rigsforstander authorized, as the statute states that only men may act as Rigsforstander?

The amendment to this legislation about women were added later than 1871. Not sure when, perhaps when women got the right to vote or with the latest change of the Constitution in 1953.
I think (not 100 % sure though, will have to check) that you still have to be a member of the State Church, i.e. a Lutheran in order to act as Rigsforstander, because the Monarch is also head of the state Church, and since a Rigsforstander act as monarch in anything but name, that would be a necessity IMO.

But back to your question. The princess in question would have to be a Danish citizen, be a member of the State Church (PH, mind you, is also a member of the State Church, but he seems to be leaning towards a kind of Buddism. So it need not have much to do with your personal belief.) she would have to sign a pledge to obey the Constitution. - And of course be of sound mind and worthy (so no criminals here) and that's it.
So our Marie and Mary can act as Rigsforstander. It would be very unlikely for Marie IMO, but certainly a possibility for Mary.

[Queen Claude]

What will be the surname for the descendants who are not princes? Monpezat?

Do we know yet if the children of Frederik's daughters will be princes or princesses?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

What will be the surname for the descendants who are not princes? Monpezat?

Do we know yet if the children of Frederik's daughters will be princes or princesses?

To the second question:
They are in line for the throne, and pretty close to the throne at that, so they are likely to remain princes/princesses unless they drop the title due to marriage or simply wish to opt out.
Ultimately it will be Frederik's decision. The only title and status he cannot change is Christian's.

[Tatiana Maria]

I think it is only tradition that the heir apparent is known as Crown Prince, so that Christian's title would technically be King Frederik's decision as well.

[Muhler]

No, the Law of Succession states very clearly that the Monarch cannot change the title of or bypass the crown prince/ss.
Everybody else, yes. But not the crown prince.

- Presumably that was to avoid a future civil war, in case there was a dispute about who was to get on the throne.