Countess Alexandra and Martin Jørgensen to Separate: September 8, 2015

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...] How is Alexandra "abusing" (according to the article) Nikolai and Felix??

[...]

By living on the expenses of the Danish taxpayer because -after all- she is the mother of two Princes and she will never let anyone forget that? Abusing is not the good word, exploiting maybe is better.

 

[tommy100]

I don't think Joachim and Martin are the same, sure Joachim went a little wild after the divorce/seperation but I think he is more of a gallant gentleman than Martin will ever be. Martin always struck me as a player who was delighted to score an ex-princess who was the biggest 'prize' in Denmark at the time. Its just a shame the boys were involved in this as I'm sure, no matter how badly behaved he was, they loved Martin as a step-father.

I hope, personally, that Alexandra will throw herself into her charity work now, put her partying days behind her and really pull out all the stops for her charities to fill the void left by her ex and her children now they are older/at boarding school.

By living on the expenses of the Danish taxpayer because -after all- she is the mother of two Princes and she will never let anyone forget that? Abusing is not the good word, exploiting maybe is better.

I think thats unfair IMO, Alexandra turns up with her children to support a long standing patronage and that exploitative? If so Mary and Fred exploit their children all the time as do William and Kate, Victoria and Daniel, Hakkon and Mette-Marit, Maxima and WA, Felipe and Letizia.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I think thats unfair IMO, Alexandra turns up with her children to support a long standing patronage and that exploitative? If so Mary and Fred exploit their children all the time as do William and Kate, Victoria and Daniel, Hakkon and Mette-Marit, Maxima and WA, Felipe and Letizia.

I don't think the patronage event was critizised, but the pick up from school and the fact that Alex still gets paid by the danish taxpayer because ... yes, what is the reason again? That she has two sons with her ex-husband?

Alex's icy message to Martin: Do not see the kids!
Alex’ iskolde besked til Martin: Du må ikke se børnene - Herognu

 

[tommy100]

TBF at the time Fred and Mary didn't have children and I suspect the RF were trying to avoid a Diana and Sarah Ferguson situation where divorced members of the family went out and gave interviews or worked commercially using their royal links to bring in income.

In hindsight (which is a great thing) it might have been better to put in place something for a few years which would be reviewed every so often or say give Alexandra support for ten years.

If they had known Mary and Fred would have 4 children, Joachim would remarry and his new wife would become popular and Alexandra would remarry a playboy and perform so few duties I suspect they may have done things differently.

 

[Muhler]

Alex's icy message to Martin: Do not see the kids!
Alex’ iskolde besked til Martin: Du må ikke se børnene - Herognu

Thanks, Duke of Marmalade.

It's interesting, so Ill write a summary.

During the marriage Alexandra praised Martin for being such a good bonus-dad for Nikolai and Felix, and at a speech to Martin last year, where Joachim was present, she referred to the children as "our children".
According to the article Joachim's face showed no emotions.

Now, Her & Nu, refer to a source close to the couple, that Alexandra has made it clear that Martin is no longer to see Nikolai and Felix and that is was not Martin's wish to break the contact between them. As such Martin has had no contact with the boys since he moved out of the house.
Her & Nu has not been able to get a comment from neither Alexandra nor Martin.

- Again, it is important to keep in mind that articles in Her & Nu and indeed Ekstra Bladet should be read with care.

 

[tommy100]

In fairness to Alexandra if Martin has been getting up to no good its understandable she wants him out of her life in every way possible. That being said its not fair for children to suffer for their parents problems, if the boys want to see Martin I would hope Alexandra would let them unless Martin has done something seriously wrong that would mean Alexandra needs to protect them from him (I don't think this has happened, I'm just saying IMO its the only reason to prevent the boys from seeing Martin IF they wanted to)

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I hope through all this Alexandra can get to the bottom of why she married two men that have such similarities. Mature adult men do not leave family for nights out on town as if they are single in the way both men appear to have done. Her sons have now seen two father figures in their lives behave similarly. For their future families sake I hope they will get help in processing these two break-ups.

Excellent points, very thoughtful. The point about the impression all this is having on the two adolescents princes and the implication for their future relationships is particularly sobering.

And I also agree with tommy100. If the boys still want a relationship with the man that Alexandra brought into their lives and encouraged them to love as a surrogate father, they should be allowed to do so...unless Martin has proven himself to be an unsafe and/or dangerous person.

 

[polyesco]

In fairness to Alexandra if Martin has been getting up to no good its understandable she wants him out of her life in every way possible. That being said its not fair for children to suffer for their parents problems, if the boys want to see Martin I would hope Alexandra would let them unless Martin has done something seriously wrong that would mean Alexandra needs to protect them from him (I don't think this has happened, I'm just saying IMO its the only reason to prevent the boys from seeing Martin IF they wanted to)

Agree. It would be wrong to keep them from a step parent they had spent the majority of their lives with and grown to care for.
Of course, if there is danger they should be kept away.

But yes these tabloids should be taken with a grain of salt.

An off question, now that Felix is older can he seek to live with his father Joachim the majority of the time? Im sure he loves his mother , just asking.

 

[Muhler]

Agree. It would be wrong to keep them from a step parent they had spent the majority of their lives with and grown to care for.
Of course, if there is danger they should be kept away.

But yes these tabloids should be taken with a grain of salt.

An off question, now that Felix is older can he seek to live with his father Joachim the majority of the time? Im sure he loves his mother , just asking.

Yes, he can actually. IIRC from the age of twelve the wish of the child carry a lot of weight in regards to what parent is granted primary custody.
Administratively speaking it would be a question of transferring the state child support from Alexandra to Joachim, because the money follow the child.
Unless something is seriously wrong at the Alexandra home, or Felix develops issues, I don't believe that will happen though. And not in the situation his mother is in right now.
Felix may be crossed with his mother for not being allowed to see Marin (if that is true) but "letting her down"? That's a big step for a child.

 

[camelot23ca]

Felix and Nikolai are old enough to have some understanding of what led to the divorce. As close as they may be to Martin their primary loyalty is likely to their mother, and they also have and have always had a very strong bond with their actual father - it's not like Joachim dropped out of sight when they were little and Martin stepped in to replace him.

If the rumours of Martin not seeing the two young princes are true then I think the possibility that they may not WANT to see him at the moment should be considered.

There's also the possibility that Martin's behaviour went beyond immaturity. I won't give specific examples even as speculation but I'm sure we can all think of a couple of things that would necessitate a responsible parent cutting off someone's contact with their children.

 

[Rocketmom]

In the U.S. alimony is usually discontinued on the remarriage of the recipient. Child support is different and continues until the child is of a certain age or finished with schooling. Is apanage the same as alimony, or is it specific to the royal family. Was it contingent on Alexandra continuing to perform royal duties or was it granted to her simply because she had left Hong Kong, made Denmark her home as the wife of a royal prince? IIRC, Alexandra was in investing and finance before her first marriage. If she invested wisely, it doesn't seem like she would need this source of income any longer. If she received it on the expectation of her performing royal duties and she does not fulfill that obligation, it doesn't seem right for her to continue accepting the income.

 

[Muhler]

In the U.S. alimony is usually discontinued on the remarriage of the recipient. Child support is different and continues until the child is of a certain age or finished with schooling. Is apanage the same as alimony, or is it specific to the royal family. Was it contingent on Alexandra continuing to perform royal duties or was it granted to her simply because she had left Hong Kong, made Denmark her home as the wife of a royal prince? IIRC, Alexandra was in investing and finance before her first marriage. If she invested wisely, it doesn't seem like she would need this source of income any longer. If she received it on the expectation of her performing royal duties and she does not fulfill that obligation, it doesn't seem right for her to continue accepting the income.

At least one top politician has said very clearly that the apanage was to ensure that Nikolai and Felix grew up living a life befitting their status. At the time M&F had no children and Nikolai could be the next heir.
It has later emerged that QMII came up with this arrangement and as far as I understand Alexandra's apanage was detracted from Joachim's because his apanage went up when he married, to pay for a wife. - And considering how busy Alexandra was before Mary became Crown Princess it was a good investment. - And keep in mind, she was still a princess.

It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future, so I think the first thing on the mind of the politicians was to avoid a situation like in Britain, with Diana and Fergie feeding the press with endless material.
We should also keep in mind that of the 179 MP's in the Parliament, practically all of them would have no more info about why Joachim and Alexandra divorced than we do - and the public (and press) sympathy back then was very much behind Alexandra.

I think it was expected Alexandra would do a Benedikte. I.e. working quite a lot with her protections (I'd estimate that only about two-thirds of what Benedikte is doing is mentioned here on TRF) while keeping her private life low-key.
After she remarried and became a commoner I think it was expected Alexandra would take a seat on a few politically safe boards or perhaps join a politically safe company or state business - but she didn't and that in hindsight is perhaps a mistake, because it can so easily be seen as if she is idling her time away on the taxpayers expense. - When in reality the apanage is probably only a nice supplement to her income.
And to the politicians who are used to dealing with a budget based on a GNP of what is it? Some 1.800 billion DKK? Alexandra's apanage is not even peanuts.

After the sale of Schackenborg no one can realistically believe Nikolai and Felix won't be able to get the best education money can buy and they will not have to live in a one room apartment living on canned food the last week of every month until they get a job that pays well enough for them to live a reasonably comfortable life. Because I don't think we should expect Joachim's children, certainly not all four of them, to have a prominent role within the DRF in the future. Perhaps if one or two of them develop a particular talent for royal duties, but otherwise no. On top of that they are very likely to settle and marry abroad somewhere.
So from a PR point of view I think it would be wise of Alexandra not wishing to accept the apanage once Felix turns eighteen.
The public view on that may indeed turn from a low grumble to a demand for Alexandra to be stripped of the apanage if as a consequence of the divorce it turns out that Alexandra's economy is much better than expected. If she has say an estimated fortune of 20 million DKK, (not including her house) it will be extremely difficult to explain to the public why she should continue to receive an apanage and certainly after Felix turns eighteen.
5 million DKK = Fair enough.
10 million DKK = Weeell, okay then, but really...
15 million DKK = Come on!
20 and above = Forget it!
Compared to the average Danish homeowner (some 60%) who has a fortune, including the house and everything else and minus debt, of a little more than 1 million DKK.

 

[ricarda]

In the U.S. alimony is usually discontinued on the remarriage of the recipient. Child support is different and continues until the child is of a certain age or finished with schooling. Is apanage the same as alimony, or is it specific to the royal family. Was it contingent on Alexandra continuing to perform royal duties or was it granted to her simply because she had left Hong Kong, made Denmark her home as the wife of a royal prince? IIRC, Alexandra was in investing and finance before her first marriage. If she invested wisely, it doesn't seem like she would need this source of income any longer. If she received it on the expectation of her performing royal duties and she does not fulfill that obligation, it doesn't seem right for her to continue accepting the income.

Alexandra på livsvarig apanage | Nyheder
According to this article from 2004 Alexandra got the apanage so she could continue her representative duties (with her patronages). And it was granted for life which clearly shows - no matter what is said today - that it was not meant to ensure an appropriate upbringing for her sons (it was always clear that they would turn 18 one day).

Perhaps a short-sighted decision by the politicians and the Queen who wanted to avoid a situation like in the UK or perhaps a sign that it was indeed Joachim who was to blame for the divorce (In effect Joachim's apanage was split into 2 portions, one for him, one for his soon-to-be ex-wife. But of course his apanage was raised again when he married the second time).

I personally always found it odd that Alexandra kept her "royal" patronages but in the end it was and is up to those organisations to decide whether they want to keep her or not.
And she works with her patronages and perhaps will work even more after her divorce.

Muhler
I think it was expected Alexandra would do a Benedikte.

I doubt that very much.
Benedikte is a born princess and even Rigsforstander at times.
Alexandra married into and then left the royal family. It was always clear - at least to me - that she would become less and less "important" with time.
And not even Marie does a Benedikte when it comes to working days.

 

[Muhler]

You can also turn it around and say the apanage (especially if M&F had had no children) was to ensure that the mother to the next heir wouldn't risk ending up having to live in a social housing complex somewhere and be seen having to look for discounts in the local Lidl supermarket - to put it bluntly of course.
And also ensure Alexandra had the means to give Nikolai and Felix some pocket money while they study at the university or where ever. (Instead of having to turn to Joachim for that, which she might find humiliating).
Also, try give an immature eighteen year old full access to several hundred thousand DKK every year, to spend on drinks and girls and what not. No one knew at the time how Nikolai and Felix would turn out. So I think it was a sound move to ensure Alexandra maintained control over the money.
That might very likely include investing some of them on behalf of her sons and this is something Alexandra has been doing for a living - and apparently doing it well.

I don't think the apanage was an indicator to who was to blame for the divorce. At the time everybody were interested in closing this case as quickly and quietly as possible.
No one wanted a disgruntled and vengeful Alexandra to talk to the press, if Joachim was to blame. If Alexandra was to blame, no one wanted her to say "confess" to the press about an affair she had with X, with all the mess and doubts about who is really the father of... and so on.

I must emphasize that I don't believe that. I lean to Alexandra and Joachim learning that they didn't match - whether they each sought comfort with someone else at the point where their marriage was beyond salvation is anyone's guess.

Could it have been done differently? Sure. And with different conditions as well. But this was the first divorce in the DRF for more than a hundred years. There was no modern precedence.

Also, you can also look at the apanage as something similar to a minister getting a pension, for "services rendered to the state" or a major business executive getting a large financial "parachute" after leaving the job. - In that context Alexandra's "parachute" is actually not that high!

But things change. When Joachim and Alexandra divorced, the economy was booming. But then came the financial crisis and Alexandra remarried. Did less and less work with her protections. Was doing pretty well with her personal economy by all accounts. M&F had children and became the superstars of the DRF. Our Marie entered the field as well.
So, basically Alexandra became redundant in the eyes of the public. That change in the public perception wasn't foreseen either.
While Alexandra stayed married to Martin, she could more or less fly under the radar, but with a second divorce the spotlight is on her. With the inevitable questions of what do we get for the money. - And this time Alexandra is in a much weaker position.
So IMO it would be a very wise move of her to "voluntarily give up" her apanage at some point.

 

[JR76]

Alexandra på livsvarig apanage | Nyheder


I doubt that very much.
Benedikte is a born princess and even Rigsforstander at times.
Alexandra married into an then left the royal family. It was always clear - at least to me - that she would become less and less "important" with time.
And not even Marie does a Benedikte when it comes to working days.

I don't really agree with you there. Her birth aside, during her marriage to Joachim, Alexandra was by far the 2nd most popular, high profile and hard working member of the DRF and at the time of the divorce the public was firmly behind her and not her husband.
The Danes aren't like the British who seemingly enjoys seeing public figures first being put on a pedestal and then torn apart by the media.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[ricarda]

I don't really agree with you there. Her birth aside, during her marriage to Joachim, Alexandra was by far the 2nd most popular, high profile and hard working member of the DRF and at the time of the divorce the public was firmly behind her and not her husband.
Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

Whether the public was behind her or not, she stopped being a royal when she got divorced. So, how could she do a Benedikte?

 

[JR76]

Whether the public was behind her or not, she stopped being a royal when she got divorced. So, how could she do a Benedikte?

I think what Muhler (who I know is very capable of speaking for himself) means is that her demoting in status (she did remain a non-HRH princess up to her second marriage) aside she was by the public expected to still act the princess and devote herself to raising her royal sons, representing her charities and maintain a discreet lifestyle not compromising the DRF like Benedikte but minus being a Rigsforstander.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[ricarda]

So IMO it would be a very wise move of her to "voluntarily give up" her apanage at some point.

Of course that would be wonderful for the DRF. Because in the end I think this apanage-controversy could do more harm to the monarchy than to Alexandra.

JR76
Her status aside she was by the public expected to still act the princess and devote herself to raising her royal sons, representing her charities and maintain a discreet lifestyle not compromising the DRF like Benedikte but minus being a Rigsforstander. At least that's what I think it means.

To act the princess when she no longer is a princess (she was HH up to 2007) and does not have the ressources of a member of the RF? If that was expected then I think it was very unrealistic. Besides there was a hint to a second marriage already in the settlement (she would have to pay taxes in that case).
Apart from that she raised her sons, represented her charities and did not compromise the DRF. So why take away her apanage?

 

[Muhler]

You nailed it, JR76

No one expected her to be as active as when she was married to Joachim, but certainly to represent her protections well. Which she did initially, certainly before she married Martin and before Joachim remarried.

But in a society where your social status depends on you working (or having earned the right to retire after a working life), continuing to receive an apanage while not doing that much in return will eventually be frowned upon by the general public. Whether that is fair is of course debatable but that's the situation for Alexandra now.

The question of apanage to the DRF will always be an issue. Some people will complain even if the DRF paid all their expenses out of their own pockets.
The problem is mainly that the public, or some parts of the public, are not educated about what the apanage is really used for. Too many still think the apanage the DRF goes directly into their own pockets - and some how by magic the staff pay themselves.

The main problem for Alexandra is that the apanage she receives actually does go into her own pocket. She has a part-time secretary and apart from the odd drive to another part of the country and the odd new dress for a gala, that's basically the only expenses she has. There are no conditions stating that say 50 % must go to Nikolai and Felix. - And that's why the question of her apanage has a more general appeal beyond the usual people who always complain about the taxpayer-money.

 

[Viv]

Abusing is not the good word,
exploiting maybe is better.

Well yes, ' exploiting' is probably bettter !

Just to elaborate on Ms. Thisted: She's a well known journalist
and is presently a.o. a columnist at the Danish red top Extra Bladet,
a tabloid which features anything between the worst gutter- journalism
and clever pieces in the same issue!

Anyway, Thisted was hired to be - if not the devil's advocate -
then the voice/pen putting a different perspective on recent
matters.In the aforementioned article she made no bones about
the fact that she held a high opinion of Martin J. and his family.

As for Alexandra 'exploiting' her sons:
Ms. Thisted was fine with the fact that Alexandra went through
with the Walkathon charity walk with her sons - she usually
does - however she (Thisted) took issue with Alexandra facing
the public with an air of being a woman scorned, walking with
her arms tightly wrapped around Niclolai and Felix, sending
the message that - we're suffering-right-now- but -the -three-
of-us-will stick together -and-deal-with- it.

IMO Thisted has a point if the reports and photos from the
Walkathon are to be believed! I tend to agree that the boys
should not have been part of their mother's public display of
misery, or whatever it was.

Then again, it can't be easy going through a divorce
in public for the second time although she apparently
instigated the first! And being on the receiving end of
an (disputed) apanage doesn't help!

They say that what comes round goes round!

viv

 

[maria-olivia]

Why was Prince Joachim "a little"wild during and after his wedding with Alexandra and so happy and faithful wth our Marie ?
Was Alexandra to clever for him ??

 

[tommy100]

IMO the fact Alexandra was granted an appanage suggests it was felt she would continue representing and working for her charities. I doubt any politician would find it in them to vote for a purely personal allowance for life to a soon to be ex member of the RF. I agree with those who say they were trying to avoid a Diana style situation. Remember Diana too was given funding for her office and work for charities and I think the aim with the appanage was to do the same for Alexandra.
I guess people may have felt it unfair Alexandra would be forced to give up doing the work for the charities she supported simply because she and Joachim were divorced.
Remember no one who voted for the appanage could know she was going to re-marry so soon after her divorce and do so little for her charities. I've always had the feeling that up until she re-married she was going to hold a sort of 'honoury royal' role, not still a member of the RF but doing similar if less high profile appearances for charities.

Of course on reflection a time limit of the appanage would have been better or linking it in some way to the amount of work carried out for patronages. THis would have stopped any criticism as the less she worked the less she gets. (Not necessarily serious suggestions just pointing out hindsight is a great thing!)

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

@Muhler (post #138): Neither of us can really speak for Alexandra's interest in the media coverage. I still don't think the wedding was that grand but rather suiting for someone who, at the time, still held a prominent place in the hearts of many Danes – and I definitely think the media would have made it even grander if they had been allowed to.

I sidestepped that, indeed. Mainly because I don't remember them (neither Alexandra's nor Joachim's) nearly as exaggerated as you describe them but thought my age might be to blame and gave you the benefit of doubt

The "warning cry" from Alexandra's patronages was a bit of moaning from the Danish Association of the Blind after she stopped as a patron for DR PigeKoret. After which several of her patronages went out and said how pleased they were to have her as their patron. To the best of my belief she didn't notch up her activity with the patronages – the press just became more aware of whenever she had new engagements. But if I'm wrong, isn't it just great that she noted the criticism she got and acted on it? There's absolutely no ground for believing that she somehow isn't interested in her patronages.

Was it unnecessary? Really? This is a mother accompanying her child to school. A mother who knows that the press will be there, sure, but presumably also a mother who has asked her thirteen-year-old son before leaving home if he wants her to accompany him despite the media attention. And to the best of my belief, it is incorrect that Alexandra could have stopped it as she and Felix were walking on a public street and according to the Danish Penal Code §264a, it's only illegal to photograph people in a non-freely accessible place (and the public street is, in fact, a freely accessible place). You don't need to seek consent when the people you're photographing are walking on a freely accessible place. Had they, on the other hand, been photographing Felix as he was walking into the school, it would be illegal as he would be in a non-freely accessible place. The penal code doesn't protect private activities so long as they're happening on public streets.

I appreciate you defining your "hey, I'm still here" theory to me, but I still refuse to follow the narrative that Alexandra is just hungry for attention. That might be naive of me and I don't doubt that Alexandra has flaws but I don't think any of your given examples (that I can remember, mind you ) warrant hunger for fame as the sole conclusion.

Alexandra is the children's MOTHER - going out in public with your own sons isn't seeking publicity, it's called parenting. She would be photographed no matter where she went with them so soon after the divorce. Are people seriously suggesting she should avoid doing things like bringing her kids to school or participating in a school sponsored walkathon with them because people might take their pictures? Should she not take them out to eat in a public place or take them shopping either? Just out of interest, how long should this self imposed purdah last?

I wonder if Ms Thisted is one of those cringe worthy women who likes to brag about all her guy friends and insist they're soooo much easier to get along with than women?

I couldn't agree more. I think it's a shame that people are reading into perfectly normal everyday activities just because they don't like Alexandra (or Martin, for that matter). As for the Ecco Walkathon, Alexandra has participated with Nikolai and Felix for the past many years – why shouldn't she do it this year? Would people prefer that she stayed inside her house for the next six months?

And you've said it. Karen Thisted is exactly that kind of woman. She has made a lot of very obnoxious comments through the time and was once chief editor of Ekstra Bladet (and that's all one needs to know, really)

 

[Muhler]

A quick reply before going to bed.

I didn't realize you are that old!

Firstly the laws, or more correctly sentencing, on privacy extends beyond the penal code, where you risk fines and even prison.
There have been quite a number of civil lawsuits against the media publishing photographs of people in very public places, like beaches, without that persons knowledge let alone consent. The verdict in most cases go against the media. - Especially if you make money on the pictures. The point being that you have a certain right to privacy, even in public.
According to a photographer I know, that has been defined as a person taking up more than an X % of a published photo from a public place or a crowd. Unless there are very good reasons for it, like documenting a crime or a riot or a demonstration.

It was certainly my impression that Alexandra was "retired" from the DR1 Girls Choir and shortly after, the debate as to what amount of work Alexandra actually does for her protections started.

 

[camelot23ca]

Why was Prince Joachim "a little"wild during and after his wedding with Alexandra and so happy and faithful wth our Marie ?
Was Alexandra to clever for him ??

Joachim seems very old fashioned in some ways, with traditional views on royalty and also gender roles. I doubt he's the sort of man who responds well to being outshone by his wife, or to his wife attempting to set limits on what he can do. Joachim seems like a man of average abilities who was born into an extraordinary life, whereas Alexandra, much like Mary, seems like she has above average abilities. She certainly showed herself to be smart, ambitious and good at connecting with people during her years as a member of the DRF.

Marie seems like exactly the sort of person who would make a good wife for Joachim. Younger, pleasant, a good mother who will take care of most of the kid stuff, not too educated, not too ambitious, and not someone who's going to rock the boat in any way.

There's a shoe for every foot! Hopefully next time around Alexandra will pick a properly fitting one!

 

[Frelinghighness]

Joachim seems very old fashioned in some ways, with traditional views on royalty and also gender roles. I doubt he's the sort of man who responds well to being outshone by his wife, or to his wife attempting to set limits on what he can do. Joachim seems like a man of average abilities who was born into an extraordinary life, whereas Alexandra, much like Mary, seems like she has above average abilities. She certainly showed herself to be smart, ambitious and good at connecting with people during her years as a member of the DRF.

Marie seems like exactly the sort of person who would make a good wife for Joachim. Younger, pleasant, a good mother who will take care of most of the kid stuff, not too educated, not too ambitious, and not someone who's going to rock the boat in any way.

There's a shoe for every foot! Hopefully next time around Alexandra will pick a properly fitting one!

I agree with your assessment of all the players. I like your shoe for every foot quote

 

[Muhler]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Joachim is very conservative man if I am to analyze him.
Also in regards to gender roles. Not that he doesn't believe in gender equality, but he certainly IMO believe that a man must stand up and protect his family, should shield his wife, should always be polite to women - be a "southern gentleman" actually - be a man! While his wife deals with the more softer values within the family.
He is (no doubt influenced by his father) a traditionally French family man. The benign head of his family.
This is where he is most comfortable.

That may not have been particularly compatible with Alexandra, who was older then Joachim, had had her own career where she was used to using her elbows in competition with men, and being independent.

Our Marie on the other hand is IMO also pretty conservative in many ways. Being French she can understand the concept of a patriarch of the family. She quite likes the idea of having a strong arm to lean on. - While getting her way, when she wants to...

Yeah, yeah, I know. Some of you reading this will per default immediately stand up on one leg, make the sign of the cross seven times while massing: "There is no such thing as different gender-roles in this here modern world".
Well, it works for some. Apparently it works for Joachim and Marie.

While the gender division is much less represented in Mary and Frederik's marriage. And that apparently suits them well.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Joachim is very much a 'status' man, I remember stories that he insisted on adressing his children as 'Prince' in Kindergarten.
Also, what fits with the patriarch role, he can have a foul temper, what we have also seen in public, when adressing journalists catching him on the wrong foot.
I imagine that didnt go down well with Alex (the second point) and recall photos around end of their marriage when they had a heated exchange, almost yelling to each other, during an official event. Marie is certainly much softer than Alex in that respect, knows 'her place' in a relationship with Joachim.

 

[muriel]

There's a shoe for every foot! Hopefully next time around Alexandra will pick a properly fitting one!

I agree with your assessment of all the players. I like your shoe for every foot quote

Oh dear, lets hope she does not end up being a modern day Imelda Marcos!

 

[princess maggie]

Oh dear, lets hope she does not end up being a modern day Imelda Marcos!

Thank you! My laugh for the day.